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Bipolar and Infidelity

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Bipolar Disorder
Has infidelity been a factor associated with a manic episode?
Yes - 78.3% - 18 votes
No - 21.7% - 5 votes
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Posted 4/22/2007 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone, I'm glad new folks have jumped in on this topic, for it is good to hear different sides to the issues at hand. I have read some great points that we all need to consider from Bp's and the spouses who love them. I wrote some points to Destiny and Married2bp early on, that illness or not, we all need to look at in self reflection. Here is a short recap and clarity on some points I have made on my experieces. ( Destiny has not blogged for some time, but I hope she is well) 

There is deep issues beyond and beside the illness for both bp and spouse: Simple reasons why things break down in relationships:

1. Knowing thyself- are there things in your life that you need to discover about yourself? What are they, and are those personal issues a factor in the breakdown? Like too naive, cant express feelings, cant decide for yourself, control freak, running away from your demons, all these are personal issues that cannot be ignored, or they will surface and cause friction.

2. Need for change- My wife told me part of the reason why she cheated was because of our lifestyle. Her attraction to the others were not physical, but of the lifestyle they possessed, ie, 9 to 5 job, victorian house with picket fence, weekends off, etc.. Need for change is a part of the human condition, we all would go insane if things are the "same old, same old" 

3. Listening and communication- I never heared the cry for help, I blew it off as psyco babble. Still working on being a better listener.. Also, do I share the deep dark secrets that lurk inside my head. Do I dare speak them? What would happen if I do?

4. Attention- I'm always working and never give the type of attention my gal needs. Still working on this.... never ending process

5. Setting goals- what are the things you want for your famly? Can everyone be on board to reach these goals. Can we as nonbp's overcome some adversity, and handle the challenges to reach these goals? hum..  ( fight the good fight together, or the grass is greener on the otherside and give up)

6. Acceptance and forgiveness. We all say it! Do we mean it?

7. You cant change anyone! illness or not. If someone tried to change me, I would run away fast or put up my dukes~ . Are you trying to change someone? We cant force someone to love, for love is a gift, and it should not be taken for granted.

We all have breaking points in our lifes, and its frustrating that know one knows or understands ourselves. It is only our self that we can improve on, learn about and make changes. We all have to face the music. Bp and nonbp.

Peace

Posted 4/23/2007 2:09 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, this is for the original poster of this thread. First I would like to say that I was recently diagnosed bipolar after years of depression and mania. I have had the same partner since 1990, married since 1993. I have never cheated on my wife and have never had the desire to. I made a vow in front of God and friends that I would forsake all others and cleave to my wife. I took this vow very seriously and still do, even through the ups and downs. So it is possible to have self control even if you suffer bipolar disorder. Please do yourself a favor, don't blame what you did on bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder didn't have the affairs, you did. It is your responsibility to own up to that fact. If you don't, you have no chance of fighting this disorder.

"I have always, always been known to be the most loyal and trustworthy person, according to my friends and family, including myself.  I have always stuck to my morals and values throughout my lifetime."  Now that is no longer true. Your husband knows that and will never fully trust you again, or at least I don't see how it is possible. If he is a smart man, he will move on. That way you both can start over. He needs someone he can trust that won't make excuses for their behaviour. Remember, you have bipolar, it doesn't have you. I'm not intending to be overly critical of you. You have a rocky road ahead of you, and no mater what you do you will always have this hanging over your head. I hope that you will realize that you are responsible for your actions and take control of them. It takes will power and lots of it, but in the end you will feel like YOU have control, not bipolar disorder. I don't want to come over as being self richeous, as I have plenty of flaws of my own. I just wanted to give you my perspective as a bipolar that has remained monogamous. Best wishes to you, Tom


Post Edited (Oldrocker) : 4/23/2007 8:15:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/24/2007 3:08 AM (GMT 0)
Very good Tom. I agree with you about bp. But some folks may have a different dynamic in the level of bp, and the degree of moral judgement, which equals bad choices. BP or not, many people cheat for many different reasons. Monogamy is always tested in relationships.

I see that forgiveness is not in your book?
Posted 4/24/2007 3:21 AM (GMT 0)

Hello, Would you like to explain the reasons behind your actions that caused distrust in your relationship? It would be helpful to understand your point of view and get responses from our community. Please offer some insights to the conditions you have experienced. Thank you

 

IamBPmarried2BP said...
Hello
Sirwilliam and racketball I am Married2BP's wife yes I have read and took in all of your advice. So which can be very useful. I think it is interesting to sit here and read people talking about me. Its kind of like seeing your situation from a different perspective. Just a little info for you. my husband and I are two very head strong people and I don't have a problem with him handling our finances at all. Where I have the problem is that I have been completely cut off from money all together. Now you must understand that I do work and contribute an income to the house. I feel that I sould be able to get a pop, fill my tank up or do things for myself with out having to ask permission. Also I hold him equally responsible for our financial situation because he took no interest in what was going on. He could have stopped what was going on a long time ago. I admit things did get out of control but I will also admit that he didn't take the time to find out either. He and I have found that it is easier to communicate via chatting or e-mail as it is a physical barrier between us and with no tone in the conversations then it keeps our arguments fair. I have also told him that I feel he is a control freak, he is extremely routine and suffers from anxiety. When he is anxious it irritates my very being and I do not want to be nearby. As I often suffer the rath of his anxiety. He is on meds for this but it still creates a perdicament for me and increases my stress level and we all know stress is a BAD thing if you are BP. I feel like every time I ask him if we have money he gives me an excuse so he doesn't have to tell me as for fear of what I might do. I really don't think this a healthy approach. I am trying to be responsible and do the right things now that i am on my meds but him avoiding the question when I ask as far as I am concerned that is the same as an omission and as I have been told by him that is the same as a lie. So I don't think he is setting a good example there. We will be discussing this and we will see what happens. Maybe I am just reading the situation incorrectly. All I know is for the last 2 days I have wanted to scream my head off out of frustration.

I am BP of married2BP

Posted 4/24/2007 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
Sirwilliam, I have no problem with forgiveness. I think it is one of the most important life principles. Forgiveness is about having closure from pain caused by someone that has wronged you. That doesn't mean that you have to stay around for more abuse though. My point in posting here was to drive home the fact that WE are all responsible for our actions. We can't go around doing what we please and think we can blame it on bipolar, boredom, etc... if we do we will always make excuses and will never learn to be  responsible people. She needs to understand that and learn that the consequences of her actions are real no mater what or who she tries to blame. I'm not perfect and know I never will be, but I am a responsible person and hope that I always will be. Also remember that this is my opinion. I'm  not trying to force it on anyone and not trying to judge anyone.  I wish you all the best as I know the damage that infidelity causes.  Tom


Posted 4/24/2007 11:22 PM (GMT 0)

  Hello Sirwilliam,

  I am just curious but I have to ask other than personal experience with BP do you have any specific medical background that is pertanent to this topic? 

  As far as your question.  The distrust comes from his insecurity reguarding my infidelity.  He feels he can't trust me and I am sure that you too felt this way.  I am sure racketball can understand the other side of the equasion.  I am trying to take responsibility for my actions, however I am also dealing with a what I consider a more than average parinoid person with severe insecurity.  My husband has had some past experiences that I feel have not been dealt with.  His first wife also cheated on him and I believe from some of our arguments that I have sturred up old feelings that were never dealt with.  He also has some childhood issues that are a contributing factor that I will not disclose out of respect to him.  Combine all of these things and this has lead to him attempting to keep me in line. 

One of my biggest issues with him is that I am extremly frustrated that he treats me like one of out (2) 16yr old daugters.  I every time get the standard answer " well quit acting like a child".  We just discussed in counceling today the fact that I am tired of being belittled the snide remarks concerning my mental health are hurtful and mean.  Or things that I do that seem childlike to him. 

My true question is what got me to this point?  I was at one time a very determined young lady who knew what she wanted and wasn't going to let anyone or anything get in my way.  Unfortunately as you know BP peole are very intellegent, creative and extremly manipulative.  Now you put those two personalities together you have a major problem.  ME!!!! 

I don't blame him for worrying however many of the years that we have been married I have sat at home and waited, faithful and loyal while he has been away serving our country.  Quite honestly we were having many problems even before I had been unfaithful and well now you add infedelity it is like adding fuel to a fire and just watching it explode. 

The other issue is that when he is not incontrol of his behavior like when he is having a drink or when he is dwelling on an issue.  We break out the old memory album and rehash all the topics to include my infidelity.  Here is the ultimate question after 10 years of being faithful to one man. Why (as I said to my DR.)  do I choose infidelity as the tornado that just leveled our foundation.  I seriously believe that this relationship was long headed for disaster long before my BP was diagnosed.  He says he felt violated because I shut him out when I was down.  He has asked me several times to apologise for this, but in my mind I ask apologise for what as if I could have done anything about it.  I was sick and apparently neither one of us new it.  He says that he just thought I was lazy and didn't for an instant think it could be anything else. 

In fairness to my husband he was not raised around people who had these kinds of problems so he says he didn't know anybetter.  He grew up on a farm and people worked and functioned because that was there livelyhood.   Which I ask myself are you completely nieve?  I ask him all the time "you didn't think there was something wrong?".

Well he and I have our issues and I have tried to share some of them for all to read.  I can only hope that this short posting may enlighten you to some of our daily living disasters.  My husband can be loving and caring but he also can be a monster with verbal comments that would crush a GOD.  It is very hard to love someone who lashes out at you and speaks down to you.  He has not completely forgiven me nor do I ever think that he will.  I have crushed him.  I know I may deserve everything that I may have coming to me, but that doesn't give anyone the right to diminish my selfesteem as a human being BP or not. 

To all other couples who are going thru this remember we are all humans first and we need to respect life so when you are arguing keep it fair and remember before you speak, would you want someone to say to you what your are about to let out of your mouth towards them. 

I understand that he wants me to feel as bad as he does.With that in mind here is a question maybe you can answer this one.  If he says he loves me and he can't live without me then why in the heck does he speak to me the way he does with such a damaging toungue.  If I were to describe it to you so you could see what it feels like I would tell you this.  His words are like being beaten with whip. Leaving open wounds that partially heal, but never can. His words are like salt being poured into them to keep them fresh so I can remember the pain that I have inflicted upon him.  At this rate my wounds will never heal.

My best to all

Leslie the other half of Married2BP 

Posted 4/25/2007 5:13 AM (GMT 0)

Leslie, that was a fantastic post! You have great insight to whats been going on with you and the problems at hand. To answer your question about my background, I have no medical or psych degree, only have a degree in music education and hands-on-training in sever bp disorder, including - abuse, verbal and physical, betrayal, suicide attempts, outpatient programs, med changes, conselors, and many things assiociated with the illness. I was once very much like your husband, nieve to mental illness, gone every weekend to work, distrusting, etc.. but found ways to deal with bp, marriage, and most importantly, myself. 

Its very frustrating to you that your husband whips you with the tongue, but that maybe his only way in dealing with the crisis he must endure. (unfair yes, but it could be worse, i.e mistresses, physical abuse etc) This is the period where even the strongest, loving husband faces his darkest demons, where all the early scars in life surface again, only because to make sense of it all, and to question life and the hardships. In time, the  demons should pass, if not, you have another issue to talk about.

 He is going through a period where I once was, " she is sick, therefore I must take control" Its hard to trust someone that has bp and has the potential to lose everthing due to the illness. Trust must be rebuilt, and it will.

 Even though things were bad before this new crisis, makes things even harder and the learning curve higher than ever before for someone to learn what maybe fair in this fight. Its a natural reaction to handle things harsh, or in destructive actions that are beyond comprehension to make change. I used to write letters to my wife every sleepless night during our worst times, most I threw away, and I'm sure, your husband would do the same in time. Your cheating was a sign for change, very much like my wife, not totally the basis of bi polar disorder, but the need to communicate.

Good night for now, and thanks!

Posted 4/25/2007 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bipolar4Life-

I have feelings that relate much to yours. As I have recently been diagnosed with BiPolar II and I'm finding this is a harsher diagnosis than BPI. I have learned that I have been silently suffering with this for the last 8-9 years and have been highly functioning therefore people in my life feel I use it as a means to justify behaviors and that it is a condition I do not have. For those people, I have chosen to leave them out of my life.

My husband sounds much like yours. We have been married for 4 years but together for 8 years. This past March I had one night of indiscretion, which I now know was during a mild mania phase. But try explaining this to someone without a disorder. He now feels that he has the right to treat me in a negative manner and that I somehow deserve this. And until now I have somewhat agreed with him.

I agree with you in that our relationship was rocky for years before this one night and he also had a cheating girlfriend before me and I believe he has unresolved feelings from that relationship. I'm tired of us focusing all of our troubles on myself and my disorder instead of looking at the whole picture of us as a couple and our lack of communication. We have been going to counseling, but I'm not seeing much improvement. I don't see my husband trying some of the things our conselor is suggesting. This is very frustrating for me, as I don't want to give up on our relationship, but how long can you keep slamming your hand in the door before it stops hurting? I do like SirWilliams comment "In time, the demons should pass, if not, you have another issue to talk about." But I wonder, what would be another issue to talk about?

Thanks everyone for listening to my post !! Have a good day !!
Volleyballer :)
Posted 4/25/2007 9:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hi volleyballer. I take it that your affair was March of 2007, right? If this is true it can take years to overcome infidelity, not just days. I'm curious about your situation. If you knew that you had BP and had the tendencies to do things beyond normal, why did you put yourself into the situation that caused you to stumble? Also do you find your BP to cause you to not be able to be accountable? One more question, do you feel remorse for your actions or are you blaming them on BP. Please don't think I'm passing judgment on you, I'm just trying to understand all aspects of this disorder we share called bipolar. I would also like to recomend the marriage builders web site, it has a wealth of information on  infidelity and rebuilding your marriage.

Tom

Posted 4/26/2007 1:33 AM (GMT 0)

hello everyone

it has been awhile since i have posted anything but i have been reading all the new posts. you have made some good points and i appreciate the openness here. just so nobody is confused bipolar4life is my wife and she is the one with BP. i have anxiety issues and i am taking meds for it. i also have an appointment next week for personal counseling to deal with my issues. i would like to clear a few things up about what my wife has posted. she is right about me not recognizing that she was bipolar. until 2 months ago i had no idea what BP was. and yes when she was depressed in the years leading up to her hospitalization i handled it wrong and i have to live with that fact. in my defense i did not know much about depression and i had gone with her to the doctors and they could not figure out what was wrong with her and why she was always in physical pain. she was also being treated for depression and it was not working. she said in her post i must have been naive to not know something was wrong. well if a doctor cant figure it out how am i supposed to know what is wrong without any medical training? oh by the way she is a nurse and did not know either. but i hear about it all the time that i did not know what was wrong. (very frustrating for me) she also blames her cheating on me because i did not pay enough attention to her in the years leading up to the affair so she went looking for attention elswhere. i admit i was not paying enough attention to her for a long time but after years of being shut out by depression i had distanced myself from her to protect myself. she was either depressed or had mild mania and it was when she was in the mania phase she was mean to me and the girls. looking back it all fits but at the time she was very difficult to live with. i tell her that she hurt me alot in those years but she will not take responsibility for her actions because in her world she did not hurt me or the girls when she lashed out at us and blamed us for everything. to her it did not happen but it did and that pain is as real as her disease. but she won't admit it happened (also very frustrating for me and the girls). as for me lashing out i know i shouldn't do it but i do not know anything else and that is what i hope to learn in counseling. i lash out because i am angry with her for hurting me the way she did. she says she did not have control of herself and it was like someone else was in control and i know i will never fully understand that because i do not have BP it does not explain her actions after she was hospitalized. we did the family out-patient counseling on the 14th of march. she had started her meds and was doing better then it all went to hell starting on the 21st and it has been something new almost every week since then. she saw the guy she had the affair with to get her cd's back and i knew about that what i did not know until i got the phone bill was that she was calling him every day until i shut his phone off on the 14th of april. how did i do that? it was easy she had given him her old phone and i was paying for the phone he was using she also had dinner with him when she said she was going to come to my work to see me. (this made me mad) the next week i find out the she loaned him $350 when we could not even pay our own bills (this also made me mad) then i find out she had not made a payment on the house for 4 months and they were getting ready to forclose on our house. (this pissed me off because every month i had money going to a different account for the house payment and she can not tell me where that $6000 dollars went. also when i asked if she had made the house payment she lied to me so i thought it was getting paid. now i have found all this out after our family exit class and she was crying and saying she was sorry and all that and then i keep getting bad news every week and while i am trying to save our marriage she is tearing it down. i have told her i have feelings to and i am tired of getting hurt and i can't take anymore of her destructive behavior and she finds a way to blame me for everything. so as you can see she left out some important information as to why i am lashing out at her. i feel backed in a corner and all i have left is to fight. i am not supposed to yell but if i keep it in i will be in the hospital next with my own nervous breakdown. i have been trying but how often will someone let the dog bite them when they try to pet it before they give up and stop trying to pet it. that is where i am at. i do not dare try to pet the dog for fear of getting bit again.  i can see my wife has not changed her behavior towards me and is not trying to make me confident enough to get close only to get hurt somemore. so given her behavior just in the last 2 months since her hospitalization why wouldn't i feel insecure? what has she done to help me feel more secure? why shouldn't i take control of things until she proves she is ready to handle them? i am not saying i will never give up some of my control but i have to do it to save the house and save myself and the girls from being kicked out of our house. but you guessed it i am wrong for taking control of things because it makes her feel like a child. what am i supposed to do? any ideas out there? has anyone else gone thru this hell? if so how did you do it? i do not want to end our marriage but i can not take much more of the blame for things she did and chose to do BP or not. i have lost 20 pounds in 4 months got in trouble at work and i can't sleep good anymore. i am a wreck and i just want her to try and make the marriage work. give it an honest try and to stop hurting me. i just want to feel secure with her again and trust her again but she is not making it easy for me and she is not helping me get there either. trust is earned and if you break it you need to work that much harder to get it back. i do not see it in her actions. i am scared of losing her but i can't keep this up much longer. i am tired, frustrated, hurt, angry, alone and lost. i wrote all this not to bash her but to get my side out there to show where my anger is coming from and to let someone else know if they are going thru this they are not alone even tho you may feel that way. thanks for letting me vent here and any opinions are welcome even if it does not help me it may help someone.

thanks for your time

i wish all of you luck

  

Posted 4/26/2007 5:02 AM (GMT 0)
Good to hear from you married2bp. I posted some things to your wifes post that should be helpful for you as well. There is nothing wrong with the way you are going about these issues. Who could hold back the emotions on someone who is failing and wasting a marriage, money, and trust. But your test is to find some compassion within your heated words, and learn to save her respect as well. she wants to be treated as your equal, and likewise, she needs to understand your hurting, and respect you as well. She wants the freedom to be herself like she was in the past, and she needs to assure that she is working on growing with you in trust. I believe that you both need to sit down and write a contract. What she wants, and what you want to make your relationship grow on move forward. Put emotions aside, put illness aside, find out the reality from one other and accept the terms that you both can agree on.

Cleary, this is an issue beyond mental illness, for there is much tension on little issues and past details that both of y need to let go for inder to move forward- for it seems that both for you want to work it out, and vent about the frustrations about your marriage. Common for every relationship
You must know that it isnt your fault about being educated in mental illness, plus, it isnt your fault for her actions. Its about knowing someone and getting to the heart of the matter. From what I've read, She is blaming you, you are blaming her, you are blaming yourself, she is blaming herself too. Time to start from scratch?
Posted 4/26/2007 7:15 PM (GMT 0)

  To All:

  I have read all the postings, even my husbands.  A couple of things.  Yes I am a nurse and I just want to let everyone know how devistated I was when I was told by the doctor that I was BP.  I said " how could I not know?"  Talk about a hit to the old ego. 

  Some of the things I tell my husband frequently is that he is on his soap box.  You all know the one where you can't just let a subject go.  We are both getting tired of the conflict and I will admit that we are both very strong minded people.  This makes it even worse.  My hubby often dwells on issues long after they have been discussed and put to bed so to say.  I can understand that he is angry and hurt and I am truly sorry for that.  Since I am a Nurse my general role is that of a nurturing one.  So why would I want to hurt anyone on purpose none of us do.  So for right now I have turned to self nurturing and in that I can only hope that I can make myself a better person for everyone.  I am exercising, trying to eat right, taking my meds and attempting a positive attitude and I also should be starting individual counceling here soon.  I am just waiting on approval from our insurance. 

My husband I told him the other night I feel like we are a hamster on a exercise wheel going around and around.  Our counceler states we can't get out of this cycle.  Constantly hurting one another.  I fell like I am standing there screaming and pulling my hair straigh up into the air and yelling make it stop.  Frustrating!!!!!! Can't you tell. 

Like I said before it is hard to get close to someone who hurts you.  My husband tells me that I should feel bad for hurting him and the girls.  I do feel bad.  I feel bad that I was sick and I couldn't help what I was doing.  In the end it hurt a lot of people including myself.  Looking back now It came full circle.  MY BP behavior caused him to ignor me for self preservasion, then that mean't that I was alone and feeling abandoned in my BP down.  This now compounded the problem and made my feelings of disconnection even worse.  I told my husband that he sould actually really feel honored I had never been that faithful to one man that long in my life.  He looked at me like I was really crazy!  In actuality I learned while in the hospital this all stems from lack of affection when I was very young 2 years old.  My brother was very ill with leukemia and eventually passed away.  The Doctor told me that I was attempting to fill that void from so long ago and I was trying to do that through sex and he also told me that every time I try to fill that void with a sexual relationship I am only making the void get bigger.  So I was really doing myself injustice and didn't even know it. 

well folks I would love to write more but I have to head on to work and take care of others right now.  I will be thinking about what I will post later.  Hope to hear some comments on what I have posted now.  Take care to all. 

BP4Life-AKA Leslie

Posted 4/27/2007 1:45 PM (GMT 0)
:-)  Hi Leslie-

I feel for you for the frustrations you are going through.....it definitely cannot be easy.  I'm wondering what your counselors suggestion is to get you off of the cycle of continuing to hurt each other?  If he is the professional, I would think he would have some suggestion of some sort for you and your spouse to be working on.

At some point we all have to focus on what is working for ourselves and what is best for us.  I know that is hard to do and sometimes gets lost when we are in a relationship, but we must be completely whole alone before we can be in a successful partnership. This is a challenge I am facing myself right now.  I applaud you for your efforts.

Here's to wishing you better days ahead. smurf

Volleyballer

Posted 4/27/2007 3:29 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Leslie, I am Sir Williams wife. I have to apologize for being absent from the forum as of late. I have been reading every body's post but just haven't had enough time to respond. I read and re-read everything you had to say in your last two post's.

I know what is happening to you is frustrating, and that you may feel like when is this all going to end and for things to go back to the way they were. Well that unfortunately can not happen unless both of you are willing to change what needs changing and to commit 100% to your relationship.

The thing for me is I'm still hearing from your husband that you're still talking and seeing this other man. Can I ask why? I know about that need for the affection, and attention it's like being hooked on a drug but if your not able to stop why don't you leave? This is where I feel your husband has every right to know what you've been doing & with whom. Yes you may feel like you're being treated like a child but when the trust is not there anymore what else can he do?

I realize that we both suffer from BP, but what I know in myself is that I don't blame my condition at all on my actions. I have recognized with my past behavior that I was manic when they occured, but in no way shape or form did I blame the disease. I knew immediately that I needed to get to the core reason to why I had cheated. I am happy to hear that you have found a big reason associated to why you cheat. Granted it's a very sad story and I am sorry that you had to endure that.

I'm not happy to hear that your husband belittle's you and by all means you have no right to have to go through that. It just makes matter worse between having to work on your relationship but also yourself. How can anyone want to work on a relationship when the other just keeps bringing the other down. I would just want to get up and walk away or like you say stand up and scream!!

I hope that you're able to work through this. I just want you to start asking yourself the important questions. Do I want to fight for this relationship? Am I willing and capable to stop the communication with the other man? Just please focus on your needs and wants in life.

Take care, RacketBall
Posted 4/28/2007 2:01 PM (GMT 0)
  Good Morning Everyone,

 

  Well I broke down yesterday and gave up the ghost,  I told my husband that I was still going through seperation withdrawls from the "other" man.  I realize now that my BP may have been a contributing factor but not the cause.  I was looking for what I was lacking here at home.  Well I think the lightbulb has come on.  We both realized that we have to pay attention to the other partners needs here at home. 

 

  Yesterday was a very exausting day for both of us.  I initally told my husband that I was going to leave him.  I could not deal with the sight of how I had crushed him.  This told me that I still loved him.  The question that I asked myself was how was I going to be in love with him again.  Well as the saga contiues at the end of it all I was sobbing all the pain and frustration that I had been feeling came out.  My chest had been hurting yesterday and as we all know that when our body speaks to us we have to respond.  Should I say I had a tell all day and told him how I was feeling about this other man.  I don't really think I care for him as much as I think I do because I think I am.  It is the idea of him and how he made me feel.  I am sad to say it had to come to that for realization but it did. 

 

I can't speek for other couples but I have learned that the longer we are married to our spouses that we tend to ignor the needs that they have and we end up taking them for granted and that is what pushes one of them to seek out what they are lacking in the relationship.  I promised my self that I need to be open and kindly tell my husband what I need.  I told him this morning that the information is right there.  Guys if I could educate you on one thing you need to listen to your ladies.  They tell you things and the info is there you just have to take the time to really listen. 

 

I was cute this morning I put my husband to a little test.  I asked him lets see how good a listener you really are.  I told him the other day of something I wanted from the store and it took him a little while but he finally remembered what It was that I wanted.  Guys this is what I am talking about.  I want to say that all the BP people that I have run into in my daily life and I know a couple.  I have to admit that I have not run into any BP men except for the ones on this web site.  Anyway the women all shared one common traight that as we say in our house, the are "high maintanence"  and I don't men as far as primping or how you look what I mean is personal attention.  I feel BP women crave lots of attention from their significant others.  Things that this would include would be doing activities together, casual touching like stroking her hair, a soft kiss just because, spooning and holding on to one another when you go to bed, one of my favorites is just laying down and looking into your partners eyes and telling them your feelings what ever they may be.  Guys you have to respond to your ladies emotional needs as well as their physical ones.  Sex for me is not the be all end all of my emotional needs.  If you don't have emotion with it then it becomes empty and robotic. 

 

Here is a good way for you to think of it. Try to imagine that you have been alone for a very long time and every time you are with your spouse you want to hear every word, touch every part of her and please her in everyway emotionally and physically that you can so she will want to come back to you.  She will.  You will apreciate your lady more and your lady will appreciate you for meeting her emotional needs.  If you can master this she will come back to you time and time again and she will never want to ever leave you.  So guys I challenge you. 

 

I am sure you all remember how you wanted to please her emotionally when you first met well you have to refer to that drive and build on it.  No matter who you are SHE WILL WANT YOU!  It is really not the sex that is just the bonus.  It is about emotionally connecting with her.  Maybe by me posting this to everyone they can see what they need to capitalize on. 

 

Come to think of it I may just go out on a limb here and say that most women could say they feel this way.  Guys if you Cowboy Up us ladies will probably will return the favor to you ten fold.  So it is in your best interest to do yourselves this favor.   I am posting this in general but I am sure my hubby will read this.  Hummmm lets see if I get a posting back on this one?

 

Well as far as the other man he is now only a idea in my mind.  I believe that I couldn't have been that important to him as he has not tried to contact me and I have heard throught he rumor mill that he already had a steady girlfriend.  So I was never really in love with him I was just in love with how he made me feel.  This is why I am posting this to all you guys!  So I am going to say since you have been told how us ladies feel you need to either put up or shut up!  I know that is harsh but that is reality.  The information has been passed on to you what you do with it is up to you! 

 

I am a tell it like it is person so if you all have comments good or bad I would love to hear them.  I am sure there may be some interesting ones. 

 

 

Posted 4/28/2007 3:35 PM (GMT 0)

  Hey Volleyballer,

 

Man we sure do have some sports fanatics on this site.  That is cool that you have such passion about one thing.  Use it and capitalize it.  I have recently invested in a exercise program and I must say it has become addicting.  I feel better too after I have worked out.  Some day I am hopeing to reach that runners high.  If you haven't felt it before then you don't know what I am talking about it is almost like a drug.  Very addicting, but a healthy addiction.  So cudo's to you girls. 

 

Oh just wanted to tell everyone also I read that Omega 3,6 and 9 helps as a natural supplement for our BP.  I started on this supplement.  Our brain works on oil not on water. So if you are all interested in this talk to your doctor and see if he recommend you adding this to your meds.  Plus it also helps with vascular health, cholesterol and joint function.  So it helps you in a lot of ways.  Most people don't like to take this for fear it tastes like fish oil but the product that i am taking tastes like peppermint.  The texture I am still getting used to it.  Yuck! If will help me then I am all for it. 

 

Down to business in answering your question about the councelors recommendations.  We wrote down about 3 things that were really bothering both of us I got a postit note and so did he and she suggested that we refrain from touching those subjects all together for right now.  Since we had been going through this figure 8 for fighting.  We keep capitalizing on what the other one had done to each other instead of looking at what we were contributing to the relationship.  This is a hard to thing to do.  Well all have a natural tendancy to blame and I am equally guilty of this myself.  We have to learn to refrain from that way of thinking and look at what we can change to make things easier on us.  So if we stop the nit picking that is a first step.  Sometimes it is just our approach to a problem.  Try instead of attacking the behavior try making suggestions that would help sooth your pain to your partner.  Tell him/her what it is exactly that you need to have some peace with the subject. 

 

What we all have to remember is we are in control of all our emotions including anger and pain.  You have to set limits and this was one of the things I learned while I was in the hospital.  Set boundaries.  I will give you an example.  When I was in the hospital my hubby called me and he started to yell at me. At that time I wasn't able to handle him yelling at me so i told him that someone was waiting to use the phone which wasn't entirely true but I had promised myself that I would not let him bash or belittle me and make me feel bad so I cut the conversation off. I knew it was going into a destructive manner.  Sometimes if we know this is happening we have to self preserve and then we can step back and objectively look at what it is we need to do or how we need to approach the topic at hand. 

 

You have to argue fair.  My hubby and I got into it the other day and I said "this conversation is now over"  at that point you need to remove yourself and let your other half calm down and then reapproach at another time to deal with the problem at hand.  Nothing is so severe that it needs to get volitle.  So go work out or take a drive or go for a walk and take a time out and this will do the same for your spouse.  He/she may be mad that you cut them off but in reality you are really doing them a favor.  You know them the best and you can tell how long it is you need to stay away.  By removing yourself your spouse and you are taking a time out.  Just explain that we can readdress this when we can talk rationally about the subject. 

 

 There is only one thing that I can think of that is exempt from this and that is taking meds.  If the BP member is not taking their meds then that is a deal breaker.  The BP member becomes irrational and is now not in what I might say LOGICAL MODE.  At that point you can't hold a healthy conversation even if you tried.  I can only speak for myself but if I am not medicated then I know I don't think rationally.  You know "normal".  So set your boundaries and stick to them they will make your arguements fair and will keep you sane.  It also prevents the other partner from letting their words hurt you. 

 

I tell my hubby we are both adults and fairly intelligent people and before we even start a convo we agree NO YELLING  if we do the convo stops.  Thats a deal breaker.  I have also found that when engaging in a convo if you gear your frustrations in a question format then you are less obfensive to the other partner.  Such as Why are you ________.  How come you did that___________, What are we going to about this___________.   Also try not to use words like always or never they are very broad and undescriptive.  Say like the time you did _______.  When you give a direct example then they know exactly what behavior you are refering too. This gives your partner an example to refer to and he/she can draw on that.  No one ever does things always or never.  They practice behavors the same because that is what they have learned works for them.  To change a behavor you have to be very specific on what bothers you and will see more effective results in changing what you feel is a negative behavior. These tools are hard to implement but once you have mastered them you both are less likely to be angry and be able to have more effective convo's.  There can be fair fighting.  If not then you need to set that boundry and put it into action that way you are preseving yourself and him/her too.  They may not know it but you will. 

 

This allow you to be in control of what hurts you and helps you.  I will have to admit to you that I sometimes am great at giving these suggestions and forget to practice them myself but for the most part I try too.  The other thing you can do is try communicating via e-mail or a chat room that way you can talk and still communicate but there is a physical barrier between you and your spouse and don't feel as threatened by them.  The only drawback is you miss the emotion in words which can be a good thing and a bad thing.  If it is a bad comment that is good, if it is a good comment you miss the emotion.  My last suggestion is try journaling.  This is a very effective tool for anyone to get frustration out.  You don't have to let them read it but you have expressed you feelings without hurting anyone.  It had sure helped my hubby. 

 

Well I have to get off my "soap box" good luck to you and I will be thinking of you all today.  The hubby and I are actually going shopping together.  I say this because this is a rare event. 

Talk to you soon.  tongue

Posted 5/1/2007 1:23 AM (GMT 0)

hey everyone

first i want to thank oldrocker for suggesting the marriage builders web site it has been a big help for me and my wife to. as you can see my wife has a soap box too but that is ok it gives me a chance to find out what is in her head. as she wrote friday was a big day. we finnally got everything out on the table. here is some advice, even if you know you will not like what your spouse has to say it still needs to be out in the open. so if you are the one hiding something come clean, if you feel your spouse is hiding something they probably are. ask for the truth even if it will hurt. we found out the hard way that if you are not completly open about everything it is impossible to move forward. after my wife finally came clean on everything we can now deal with it and go forward. and i am happy to say that is what we have done the last 3 days. we have talked a lot and cried a lot but the bottom line is we are still together and that makes me very happy. but having said that now is when the work starts. making sure we do not fall into the same traps we got caught in before. so it is time to roll up the sleeves and do the work. there is no guarentee that we are going to make it 1,5 20 more years but with BOTH of us working toward the same goal we at least have a chance. when me and my wife first met we were always in each others head and our joke was "get out of my head". well we are still in each others head but the difference now is that i need a translator when i am in there becuse her brain speaks a different language than mine so i have told her she needs to translate for me and that means she can't assume i know what she is thinking and why. so she needs to talk more and assume less. and need to talk less and listen more. and like she said really listen not just hear. 

i want to thank everyone here for the advice you have given and the outside view that is so hard to see when you are in the middle of the storm. this site has been a big help for me to vent and i thank you for listening. sir william and racketball thank you for all your advice it has been a big help. i am not leaving this site in fact i will check in daily to see the new posts and see if i can return the favor that i have received.

here some advice and you probably hear it all the time but if you are the one having the affair you need to stop the affair immediatly and completely if you want to work things out with your spouse. it will not work if you keep it going. first it is not fair to the spouse that is trying to make the relationship work. they will get frustrated and angry trying to compete for your attention. second it is not fair to keep it going because if you are the one having the affair you are not giving the relationship a fair chance. and this advice comes from experience. it takes a 100% comittment from BOTH if the relationship even has a chance to work.

also if you are the one with BP you have to take responsibility for your actions. BP plays a big part in your actions but you can't hide behind the disease. in the end you are responsible for your actions and your spouse is responsible for thiers.

i have learned a lot about myself going thru this and one thing is like my wife stated in her post is to fight fair. i was not doing that and niether was she and that made finding a solution almost impossible. i also learned that i have had more patience than i thought i had and if things go like we hope they will it will have been worth it. i have also found out the most important thing and that is that i love my wife very much. i would be lost without her and can't imagine life without her. even with her illness it will be better with her than without. i guess that is why i fought so hard to keep her from leaving. she is a good woman with a very serious illness but i vowed in sickness and in health and that is my intention. i do not know why god has dealt me the hand i have but someday we may see the reason but it is not my place to ask why but to just do what is right. i also found i am stronger than i thought because this was a true test to my commitment to my wife. i am sure we will have good days and bad but i am optimistic that the good will happen more often now that we both have learned some tough lessons the hard way.

well that is all i have for today i am sure i will have more in the future. to everyone else that reads this hang in there and i hope you will have a happy ending but i know not everyone will. some things are just not meant to be and my heart goes out to you. it is hard to lose the one you love because of what this illness is capable of doing. if you need to just vent my email is on the left and it is always open if you do not want to talk here.

god bless and good luck to everyone

and thank you from the bottom of my heart

Posted 5/1/2007 3:38 AM (GMT 0)
Three cheers my friend! Learning things is never easy, and there will always be recaps to old issues in the future, just to maintain the new level living. You will see life differently: philsophically, spiritually, and feel proud of the little things that we used to take for granted. Its not over, for our trust can weaken from time to time, and we can choose another path to follow as well, the ways of life, always full of surprises. The next chapter will be the meds, and all the side effects it can cause on ones body: throid problems, hormonal changes (lowered libido), withdrawal from med changes.... the fun never ends.

Way to go! You guys are moving up!
You both deserve the blessings
Posted 5/8/2007 8:05 AM (GMT 0)
confused  well me again. i thought things were going better but she told me today she was leaving me. i tried but i could not reach her. this has made me unhappy but i do not know what else i could have done except change the past which we all know can't happen. if you want details ask her because i do not know why this is happening to me. i just do not know why. confused confused confused confused
Posted 5/8/2007 2:15 PM (GMT 0)

What? Oh no. oh well. Its her loss. There is nothing you can do right now except say farewell.

You cant say you didnt try. Think of it this way too, your free from the bonds of bipolar uncertainty. Always look on the bright side. WAtch out too, ex's always come back. You must decide to free yourself so down the road you wont get hurt again. Just be parent friends and talk to a lawyer.

So sorry

Posted 5/8/2007 2:43 PM (GMT 0)
I am so sorry to hear what has happened to you. Was there a reason why to her leaving or did she just say I'm leaving! I can't say I know what she is thinking or feeling, but maybe she just needs a break from things right now. Maybe all of what she is having to deal with is just too much and she just needed to step away from things.

I truly hope that you both find the answers you are looking for during this time apart and that this is not a permanent situation for you. I wish you all the strength to remain strong during this very tough time.

Keep in touch and know we're hear to listen to you.

Take care RacketBall
Posted 5/12/2007 4:52 AM (GMT 0)
Hello Sir William and Racketball,

As my hubby posted I guess I have to tell all.  Well here goes.  There has been a lot of water under the bridge and I have found that I have become numb to my feelings and I am truely concerned that If I continue on this path that total destruction will occur.  I have commited to myself and healing. I am  exercising and trying to eat right for the most part and yes taking my meds.  I explained to my hubby that we need a time out and a structured seperation.  I have not even disucussed the word DIVORCE.  I feel like we need the time to evaluate ourselves and look hard at what we need to change.  I know I have BP but that is not the be all end all of the world.  He is taking this seperation very hard and is very upset.  I do believe that it is in our best interests.  If we are strong individuals then we will be even stronger together after our work and we are both stable. I will not stand by and be victim to my own disorder.  I WILL CONTROL IT AND WILL OVERCOME THE MADNESS. MY BP WILL NOT CONTROL ME ANY LONGER. 

I have been so back and forth about my feelings and then I see us both reverting to old ways so in my mind we have to develop better marriage skills and learn how to correct our behaviors.  If we are appart then we can concentrate on only one thing OURSELVES.  When two people are not functioning well together then we need to step back and evaluate their behaviors.  One way to do this is spend some time alone working with our councelers and making permanent changes that will make a difference when we are together.  We are at this time setting the ground rules as far as our seperation.  People either appreciate what they have lost and make the changes necessary to make it happen or press forward. 

If we are meant to be then we will learn to love one another once again in a healthy way.  Most of our marriage has been disfunctional so we need to learn to come together as individual functional loving people and then only can our marriage flourish. 

Sir William I have a question for you when I read your posting I could almost feel your resentment that you had once felt when your wife moved out for a week.  I understand that you may have been trying to give my hubby support and comfort but I could almost feel the emotion you had felt from your words you posted and that you can relate to the pain he is feeling.  Am I correct about this or am I just imagining things? ( I have no idea why the font just changed.)

 

We can only judge our own experiences and not one another.  Advise is great but in such matters of the heart we all can only do what we can to survive no matter what external advice is given.  I have a lot to loose by moving but I also know that I need to be a better person.  For a long time I alone have caused reak and havoc in this house.  I know that I need to make some permanent changes and I don't want to minimize my external distractions so I can concentrate on the core issue here me and my behavior.  I do also know it takes two to tango.  My hubby has developed some nasty habbits hmself due to my behaviors but he too needs to learn some effective tools instead of just playing the victim here.  He is a fully inteligent individual with a mind of his own and is well aware of all decisions he makes even if he is just reacting to a BP event or not.  Just cause I have a weak moment doesn't mean he has too also.  I am trying to run intervention here and clean up the mess that I have made over years and create a positive environment for everyone involved.  It may not seem like it to some of us in this chaotic mess but sometimes things have to look worse before they can get better. 

 

Well I need to go and get some rest. Take care all and I hope this helps someone and that includes me.  Thanks for the Ear. 

Leslie :-)

Posted 5/17/2007 5:06 AM (GMT 0)
you are right Leslie. I do hold some resentment and have different circumstances. I removed my wife for a week. It was my decsion to do so. It was the only way for me to be free and look clearly at my life, not hers, for that was the only, the only thing I was concerned about- her. For years I thought about how I could help her.  I blamed myself, her disease, my character, everything was carefully watched and analized. My own needs were ruined and dweeled in desparation, my jealousy grew, all the bad things that can happen to a man when he lives in a life of uncertainy, when the woman he loves doesnt want him crossed my very soul, and caused much resentment still to this day. All the messages she sent to me were disregarded as bs bp, and not the real issues, which I pondered if these issues were real or i should have listened and learned. I had to get a grip on my thoughts, feelings, and reality. I'm much wiser today, but still have old feelings that I cant shake, for they have become apart of my fabric of my survival. ( much like you said, survival.) 

I hope your time apart will bring a new understanding to both of your lives. I'm sorry to sound harsh with my comments sometimes, I'm the most positive person in the world.

peace

Posted 5/18/2007 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
Sir William,

I am slowly learning thru counceling that it is often hard to see through the muck.  Often we are easily able to give advise and foster others to do and say the right things.  Yet as my counceler told me the higher we are educated then the less we are able to apply our wisdom to ourselves.  Thus I think this is where we all are at.  I am sure that there, is at some level, some truth in the things that your wife had told you.  I have learned by talking to my husband being BP I speak a different language than him. 

Meaning his thought process and how he realates to things is WAY different than mine and I have found myself and him asking what do you really mean by that?  So interpretation is key and don't assume what is said is at face value.  Ask it may help.  Just the other day I had to ask.  I told him this is what I got out of what you said.  my hubby told me that is not what I meant at all.  The content of the question is insignificant to this, however the point is that we can't assume that what is said is at face value.  I got something way different than what he ment.  We have learned that this is a major communication break down for the two of us.  This may be happening at your place too. 

I do want to say that it is nice hearing insight from you since there is no emotional connection it is easy to accept a different view. Your wife and I share a common connection in the fact we are both BP and you and my hubby share the BP spouse roll.  So the question of what do you mean by that?  has become my almost standard question if I feel I am not interpreting correctly.  Clarification of topic is key to good communication.  Don't assume you understand what she is saying. 

 My therapist explained that the reason our lying became so easy is because it is a defense mechanism to protecting ourselves.  My next question I was thinking is what was the driving factor that I felt I needed to be protected from?  Where was the breakdown that caused the defenses to be up and felt I had to lie.  I had to look at what was I doing and what was he doing to cause this defense mechanism to kick in.  Everyone is different and your case is unique as well is ours.  We share common denominators but no one couple is the same as another.  So look deep at why in your case what made your defenses go up and what were you doing to make that happen?  Search your self to find answers that may have contributed to your couple behavior.  This may help release some of that resentment that is on reseve in your tank of pain.  My therapist did say there are healthy ways to have defense mechanisims we just havent gotten there yet.  So when I find out I will let you know. 

As a nurse I wish I had a big band aid to cure all our pain but I know you have to allow healing time on this one so we can be healthy again but don't think for a second that there wont be a scar and every time you see that scar you will reflect how you got it.  Memory can be a great thing but it also can be painful.  All we can do at this point is start trying to replace neg memories with good ones and commiting to doing this can be fun and enjoyable.  One of the things that I told my hubby is that when we are together you have to leave your bag of pain at the door and only approach us with a positive attitude and try not to engage in reflection of the past.  Keep it at the door.  Don't let it back into your current life.  We all have to make a new healthy memories. 

One of the things that I was tought at the hospital was for every bad thing we say you have to say 3 positives.  So keep that in mind when ingaging in the ole reliable (pain) remember you did this _______.  If following the rule above you need to come up with three positive things because you caused pain.  Once in the practive of replacing the bad with the good you will find that you will be reluctant to say mean comments because you have just comminted to saying 3 nice things to your spouse.  Honestly we should be doing this anyway but it is one more way to remind us that it is important to have healthy convo's with our spouses.

Take care and talk again soon.

Leslie

 

Posted 5/19/2007 5:16 PM (GMT 0)

Totally agree. Communication interpetation is a biggie. Its all part of the constant education we must do as adults. Past pain and baggage too, somehow we must leave behind for an order to become attractive to our mates- the laws of nature. Its true that people can grow apart. The language, lifestyle and motives can show where two people are heading. Its like meeting an old high school sweetheart, at one time maybe they were soul mates, but now after meeting again down the road, they find that it could never be- two very different people. Being defensive is true as well, we want to protect ourselves, and others for the actions we take. Just like when we lie to our parents about the bad things we did as kids- cause we didnt want to disapoint them.

Good things to think about. Thanks for insight. 

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