24 hours down, how many left to go?

SJH,
I haven't been through what you're experiencing re: withdrawal, but here's what I want to say to you (with the best of intentions, please understand): remember what all this feels like, especially the next time you are tempted to give away any of your pain meds. Remember what it turns into. That will help motivate you to say NO!

I also seriously doubt chewing the ultram is ok, and may even be dangerous. You need to talk to either your doc's office, your phramacy or possibly even call the ER - better than that perhaps call a local addictions center that has a detox facility. They may be able to advise you on some ways to help you through the withdrawal. Others here may have info, but remember none of us are your doc. What you DON'T want to do is start smoking your husband's marijuana, which helped you to get into this spot. I know this sounds harsh, but if you recognize what actions of yours contributed to this situation then you can control those choices in the future.

PaLady

JoBobB,

I had to edit your reply because it was in conflict with our rule against flaming other members. But I did send a copy of it to SJH. Thanks for understanding.

Chutz

Post Edited By Moderator (Chutz) : 6/11/2008 10:53:03 AM (GMT-6)

it wasnt flaming. it was honest.

i havent been on this board long enough anyone will miss me but ill say bye anyway b/c i wont stay where honesty gets deleted in favor of enabling stuff like this. that stinks lot more than any of the posts. im sure this get deleted too.

JoBobB,
I'd also like to encourage you to stay around and see that this forum works so well because we try to follow some good rules set down by the administrator. It's sometimes very frustrating and time-consuming to watch how we say things, but that keeps us civil. Chutz and the other moderators are only doing their jobs, and I've been on some forums that aren't moderated and they can turn into messy, mean places. That rarely happens here and when it does a moderator can be relied on to help out.

I don't know what you said as i didn't see the post that was deleted, but it sounds like maybe it had more to do with how you said it rather than what you said. Please hang around for awhile and you'll see the moderators are really some great folk, as is the forum itself!

PaLady

I have been on them of and on for a while, so it would total 6 months, from going to the ER. I have been going to the pain specialist for 3 months, being prescibed to take it on a daily basis since then. I am sorry if I am all over the place, my head doesn't seem to be all that stable right now understand?

Tramadol IS ultram. One is the generic name, that's the only difference. So that has me wondering who prescribed tramadol if they knew you already had ultram?

PaLady

PAlady is right, Ultram is the brand name for tramadol. They are one and the same thing.
The ER gave you three months worth of percocet? I have never heard of that.
By tomorrow evening you should be feeling a little better than you are now and in the coming days, you will slowly start to feel better.
Did you decide to go to the Methadone clinic this morning?
I also am puzzled as to why the same PM would give you tramadol when he cut you off of meds? That surprises me, since most PM's don't do that.
Sandi

I am also entertaining the idea of having a full MRI. They only did the thoracic area, but with the amount of pain in my neck, lower back and right leg.... plus the numbness going down the "pinkie" side of my arms... I am wondering. I dont' want to wast $1000 on injections if I have things screwed up in other places....
just thinking outloud

You'll probably feel sick for a little while longer, could be days, could be a couple of weeks. But apart from the usual pain, the toilet and bucket, things shouldn't get that much worse (general fatigue might of course cause additional discomfort due to possible lack of rest). As pieceOfCRPS says, consume a lot of water to prevent dehydration and try to drink or eat something salt, salt is essential in these cases and help; the water and salt cushion your system.

And don't worry, you're not going to die, not be a longshot.

I just want to point out for SJH - in case she has questioned the dose since a post here indicated that "no doctor wll prescibe 8- 10 percs beause of the tylenol...... - I think that ia a misleading statement that is based on wrong conclusions.

If the percocets your were taking only have 325mg of tylenol 8-10 pills a day are well within the acceptable daily dose of APAP: 325 mgs times 8 pills =2.6 grams. It is considered acceptable to take 4mgs of APAP a day for short periods - granted for longer periods like Ms SJH is taking, it has been strongly recommended that APAP should stay within 2-3 mgs a day. However, even using the more strict guideline she is only slightly over the maximum if she takes ten pills a day.

Now, all that I just wrote is moot if her dose of APAP was 500mg or 750mgs - then I would most likely agree that this would put her at the maximum per day (if 8 pills of 500 mgs were taken each time) or over the maximum if 9 or 10 pills were taken.

I just figure I would add this so that any anxiety that the statement may have caused can be clarified - I figure that SJH has more than enough on her plate to worry about this part of her story sounding "fishy"

All I can say after reading all of her posts relating to her doctors rash and unprofresional behaviour by cutting her off without a taper is that this is uncalled for and plain bad medicine. It is clearly stated that the pain contract is meant to ensure rights for both the patient and the doctor: the doctor has the right to discontinue medication at any time, the patient has the right to expect a taper if / when that should happen (even if arrested, the person has the right to a taper, I was told). It is purely bad medicine to with hold a taper schedule - bordering on gross negligence - on the same lines of not tapering prednisone or other medications that produce physiological dependency.

The thing that strikes me with a situation like this is that we would never be having this conversation if we are talking about heart pills, or insulin, or seizure pills; it is only because society has defined narcotics (which pot is not)in such a way as to criminalize their use that we have to have "values" and "morality" placed on the use and not-use of these meds.

And as far as referring to her position as being addict-like? To me that is an exaggeration in the same way as calling someone who drinks a glass of wine with dinner, or tossed a few beers at a ball park, an alcoholic. And using the logic that because marijuana is is illegal to claim that any use whatsoever stigmatizes you as an addict is harsh - Does that mean that all those inconsiderate drives who occasionally exceed the speed limit (or those who do it all the time) - thus doing an illegal activity - mean that they are reckless drives who should have their licenses revoked? While I do not condone speeding in any form, whether occasionally or consistently, slightly over or considerably over - I do not think these drivers should be labeled as criminals. That they are showing poor judgement? yes; Should we automatically take away their licenses based on the fact that sometime in the distant past they confessed to speeding (with no evidence to support the claim)? no, I don't think so.

And to bring the analogy closer to home - how many of us have taken (or given) a non-narcotic prescription med that was not precribsed to you? I would bet alot of us have; and again, while it may not be a smart thing to do, and technically it is illegal in the same way that pot is, I do not think we would react to the "confessor" in the same harsh, judgemental way. Yes sharing any prescribed medicine - narcotic or not-with another person (or taking someone else'a) is illegal and probably dumb and potentially very harmful, it is not grounds for "throwing the book" at you. So using the fact that using pot is illegal to support a claim that a person is showing symptoms of being an addict is over-reacting a bit, I think.


Whenever I read comments dealing with narcotic medication my "test" for the validity of the reactions shown is the question: " would the same thing be written if the drug mentioned was not a narcotic?" if not, then I see the comment as possibly filled with prejudice against the medication itself. If we, as chronic pain patients, cannot de-emphasize the "special properties" of narcotics, then we can never expect the prescribing and using of narcotic pain meds for chronic pain to become accepted as normal, boring and not worth a second thought.


Smoking a little bit of pot 6 months ago legally or illegally, does not make an addict, in my opinion.

Oh well, I guess I just got on my personal soap box again.......

I think the entire point is any one of us could find our self in the very same boat as her at any given time. Regardless as to what or how she got there. She is clearly in w/ds and understanding that is the issue and helping her with advice is hopefully what we are her for. I can imagine my story on some days may sound a bit fishy as well as there simply are days I dont make sense to even myself!

I can honestly say that if my Doc were to get sick or God forbid,pass away my search for another Doc may be long and trying and I may find myself in the methadone clinic as well trying to survive the pain as so many do here in this state since the amount of compassionate Docs has been obliterated by the drug wars. Ask yourself if something happened to your Doc today who and where would you turn? Will his replacement treat you in the same manner as he does? If not then will they at least honor the pain contract? Most likely not and the DEA themselves have written policy as to how a Doc should proceed if someone is found to be noncompliant with his or her pain contract and yes this even means those who become incarcerated. Do many of those Docs adhere to it? Not in as many cases as should.

I said it once before that the DEA recommends a 3 day taper and this is a very fast one at that and a referrel to a meth clinic or whatever the situation warrants.

Her Doc for whatever reason is wrong in cutting her off cold turkey without so much as a taper and then evidently he has no qualms about writing her non-narcotic meds as he has done and tramadol can be just as addicting as anything else and one of the reasons alot of states are considering scheduling it and some have. It was supported in its early roles as being nonaddictive and as usual the pharma companies jumped the gun to advocate a new med and get it to market.

As for the tramadol being two kinds it is feasable to think maybe one was ultracet and one was ultram? Also they are now unpatented and many companies produce them so she may have gotten two very differing looking pills.

I was one time referred by my then PCP whom was on my medical card and could not be changed until the yearly sign up thing to a PM Doc that was a true believer in "drug holidays" prior to changing anyones meds,he did this to me without any preempting and one day I was on Oxy 100 mgs a day and the next I was on nothing! There was absolutely nothing I could do about it other then to go with his plan as I was sent there by my PCP whom I couldnt change nor as anyone on medicaid knows could not see anyone else other then him at least until open enrollement came around leaving me with virtually no other option but to go with his drug holiday leaving me sick sick sick for 2 weeks.

Even though they say you cannot die from W/Ds you certainly can have factoring problems as I had that can cause you to land in the hospital and can often times be fatal. My potassium bottomed out due to the constant nausea and vomiting not to mention the diarrhea and I almost died from cardiac arrythmia's. I dont even want to get into your state of mind dealing with all of the w/ds symptoms as well as the pain and your mental state of mind at this point. How many CPP's that have actually committed suicide did so because the pain was more then they could handle at any given time? If you take a close look I bet they were undertreated or not treated at all.

I am certainly not advocating any sort of addiction problems as we all know how this problem has effected pain management thru the years but I am advocating walking in someone else's shoes here. You may never know when you can find yourself in the same boat as her for whatever the reasons are.

With our insurance being as strictly guided and the boundaries of who and how often and when we can see someone and the amount of Docs not treating pain falling daily at an alarming rate due to the BS they have to take from those government agencies watching as well as money being so tight these days and specialists costing an arm and a leg virtually and all of these factors making the chances that any one of us could find ourselves in her shoes.

What would happen if someone stole your meds today? What if youlost your purse at the store and all of your meds for the month were in there? What if your house flooded and your meds were washed away? Do you have any idea what your Docs offices policy is to replacing your meds in case of any of these incidents? I can tell you that the DEA strongly suggests that NO NARCOTICS can be refilled early or be replaced no matter what the reason since some of the Doctor shopper and addicts have become very smart in their search for more meds.

Does it scare me to think of going thru W/Ds? YOu bet but not as much as it scares me to think about if I can deal with the pain without them.

That is all I am saying here and I know it is my soap box but above all else I feel I have to put myself in her shoes no matter what road she took to get herself there. This is certainly one of those controversial situations where people are going to take a strong stand with even stronger opinions and one of those reasons that makes this forum so much better then the others,we can do so without fear of retribution or alienation from others. We can all beg to differ and offer whatever opinion is felt and even if it isnt taken lightly or kindly by some,it is respected.

The mods did a wonderful job of handling this thread without completely taking for granted others opinions but respecting others feelings. My hats off to you guys!

Thank you nvr...

mrsm, I never took more than what I was prescribed, I never "abused" my meds

This is really getting out of hand, thanks to time and tramadol I am getting my head to stop swimming and it seems as if I am somehow this big contoversy and I don't understand why. To me it is palin and simple yeah I did something I should not have done, but it was before i was ever on PM and at the time I thought I was going to have to live my life like this witghout help so I did what I could because I was desperate to stop the pain. Prior to this I have never done grugs before in my life. I have not done it since the day I signed the contract, and now months later he pulls it on me. Fine, it WAS my fault, although if I had known I was going to soon recieve help and lose it through doing what I did, I would never had done it. If that makes me an "addict" or an "abuser" then fine, think what you want, I really don't care at this point.
The point is for me to deal with my pain right now and figure out what is best for me. After all this I doubt i will ever accept a narcotic script again. The tramadol is better than nothing but it definitely does NOT make me pain free, and it makes me a little sick on top of that. Better than nothing though I guess.
The other point is that if I can't talk to people without stirring crap up, just looking for some helpful advice, not criticism, which is what I have recieved all my life from people who actually know me, then I don't need to try any more, so I am logging off. I may come on from time to time, but I doubt I will post anything from now on. Thanks to those of you who gave helpful advice. See ya 'round