Can life Suck any more then it already does???

Scarred,
Sometimes a few different answers can make all the difference, but more likely it was an issue of interpretation. Another psychologist could look at the same set of answers and come up with a totally different conclusion. It really is more art than science.

But the one other thing I would point out is that the test is really long. And the "results" are determined by how consistently you answer the questions & by how your consistent answers line up with what is considered "healthy". One issue with pain patients is that sitting for such a long test typically means either being in a lot of pain or having to take a lot of pain medicine. Either of those issues can affect the consistency of answers.

The worst part is that memory & emotion are closely tied together (I did a few major research projects on the issue). So if you start out the test feeling one way & an hour or so into it you start feeling a different strong emotion, it can affect your ability to pay attention to questions, your ability to recall certain events (for example, people who are feeling happy are more likely to recall happy events in their past; whereas people who are feeling sad are more likely to recall sad events in their past), and your perception of what the question is asking. This is true even with black-and-white math tests, so I guarantee it's the case with a lengthy psychological evaluation. If my students were very upset when they were studying & then they were having a good day when it came time to take the test, they would struggle to recall the information. So I would spend a lot of time teaching them about emotion & memory and how to set up a neutral study environment.

But if you didn't just decide to put up with the pain & you took your pain meds to help you get through the test, then that could have definitely affected your consistency. That effect is even more well documented.

So, if that's what happened & your test showed inconsistencies, it is up to the examiner to interpret that. Some would label that "deception" whereas others will take more historical & environmental factors into account & make another determination. Still others might ask you to retake the test to see if you get different results.

So I do agree with you that your WC attorney probably couldn't help with the issue. But that's not to say that no lawyer could help -- you just need someone who works in advocacy rather than in litigation. Advocates tend to be very knowledgeable about root causes of injustice among certain populations who take these tests. Their goal is typically to create systemic change, but a part of that is working with individual "case studies" to both further their research & to test out their theories in a smaller arena before taking their case to the legislature or state/federal court. While no laws were broken in this case, it is still an injustice & you need to get to the truth somehow. So I still think that would help, but I definitely believe that if you could get another psychologist to review your answers on the test & to conduct a new interview that you might well get a totally new result for the test. If you can somehow find someone who has at least a very minimum amount of training in pain psychology, that would be helpful, but a fresh set of eyes could be good even if you can't find someone with that added specialty.

take care,
frances

Pa; I understand everything you said but I cannot hire an attorney for WC. It has to be a direct denial, including a letter stating why the denial.

Hugs

Scarred

Scarred,
I am so sorry that you are going through in essence, a rape! When someone tells you that you are not in as much pain as you know you are, that is what I call being raped. Devaluation! This doctor (or doctor's) validated your pain and then with a written "test" you were stripped of every bit of validation and left wondering what next. Oh my, I am just so sorry and angry for you!! I will keep you in my thoughts and truly hope everything goes the way it should! PaLady was soooo right about filling out the pain charts!! They let the doctors see where you are, when you hurt, how much you hurt and so on. I have filled these out every day and I whip them out if there is even a moment that a doctor thinks I'm not a 10 (or more!) when I say I am though it has been quite some time since that happened. When I read your first post, my stomach began to hurt and I was shaking! I felt what you were going through. After a Psychiatrist, PC, neuro surgeon, internist and more, by the time I went to pm they had all the "proof" that I was in pain. That isn't always the way it is.
Please let us hear what happens. We care about YOU as a person! Don't forget that!!
Catz4

Scarred,
Most likely the reason the psychologist who did the test wanted to speak with the psychologist you saw for the last year was to get a context in which to interpret your test results, like I explained before. I think if you just let this go without finding out what was put on paper as a result of that consultation - and was it done before or after your test results were interpreted - you're taking a more passive stance and you need to take an active one. That doesn't mean getting angry or anything with your docs as that's not going to help either, but it does mean being assertive about getting your medical records and seeing what's being put on paper.

Frances raised some excellent points about the interpretation of the testing, and gave you a link to find an advocate, which may also be of a great help. As I've said before, the results that are just spit out of the computer are mainly graphs and are considered the "raw data", and then the psychologist or doctor interprets those results with whatever knowledge and information he/she has. And that can mean information about you over time, which the psychologist you saw for a year has. That psychologist (your real therapist) should be the one with the more accurate read on that raw data, and as long as he's licensed to interpret the test (most psychologists are) then his interpretation should carry more weight.

Did you know that back before the 1980's when that long test (the MMPI - Minnesota Multiphastic Personality Inventory! LOL) was given battered women used to be seen as paranoid and schizophrenic simply based on the interpretation of raw data, until women therapists got involved in advocating for the results to be interpreted within context. So you see the same "raw data" can be interpreted differently by different psychologists. In terms of chronic pain, that's what Frances was pointing out. If the effects of CP (such as how long you can sit, etc. as well as the effects of meds) aren't taken into account in the context then they can be very subject to misinterpretation.

Just some thoughts.

PaLady

Scarred,
I'm sorry if I confused you! If you have a question I'll try to answer in a different way. I'm trying to think of another way to put it but my brain is fried right now. Ran a lot of errands today but did get to stop at Petsmart and they let me give the cats waiting for adoption treats. That's a treat for me.

Have you talked to the psychologist you were seeing for a year about all of this? Maybe that would be the easiest way to start. In a way, it would likely be in your best interest to have the process work in reverse; by that I mean, have the man you saw for a year get the results of the test you took and interpret them. Does that make sense? Also remember once your psychologist releases his psychotherapy notes they may easily end up in the hands of W.C.

You said your psychologist that you saw for a year said he thought you were OK for the SCS trial - am I remembering correctly? If that's true, his opinion should weigh in heavily with your case. Try calling him and explain to him what's going on and see what he suggests. That's my thought at the moment.

Sorry again if I confused you!

PaLady

Scarred,
Be sure to explain to him what happened with your BT meds, as well as with the psych. eval with the other psychologist. Does W.C. know about both psychologists - in other words, do they know you were in therapy for a year? I wasn't sure if you did this part on your own. I thought it was all connected.

And don't worry about answering me right now. I hope you can get this straightened out soon. Have faith that one way or another, this will work out. And remember all you learned and how far you've come!

((((((((((Scarred)))))))))))

PaLady

Scarred,
I think that's a good view to take for your own sake. It's so true, you may be putting yourself through all this for something that may not even work. And you should be proud of the changes you made! You're empowering yourself instead of putting yourself at the mercy of that WC company.

I hope you can find a way to get decent PM with or without the SCS, and with or without WC, although I know WC is all tied into this and I sure don't know all the laws about that.

Good for you!

PaLady

SFL: I wouldn't deign to give medical advice as such, but quite frankly, new studies have shown that TENS and to a lesser degree, SCS are generally ineffective. Of course it varies by condition and each person, but overall, they are generally not any more effective than placebo. SCS is a step up from TENS, but even so, I've rarely heard of results that are worth all of the risks and pain of surgery -- to say nothing of what you're going through with the politics of it.

Of course, in our situations we feel like we have to do everything possible to get our quality of life back -- not just for ourselves but for those we love -- but honestly, you're probably better off this way. Particularly since if this insane behavior by your psychs/docs hadn't shown up now, it would have later on when you were already stuck with the surgery and the device and all of the rest, without the kind of compassionate support you deserve.

Dear Scarred,

Sounds like you have received a lot of good information. I know that when I went through my whole experience with getting the SCS I had to see a psychologist. It seemed a bit strange to me at the time but I just went with the flow so to speak. It all worked out for me with the psychologist. But, looking back I wonder if I was a little too anxious to have the procedure. My SCS was implanted in my cervical region and as I have stated before it was the MOST EXTREME PAIN I have ever been through. All in all I have had 4 surgeries involving this SCS (the trial surgery not included). I am now making plans to have it removed. But, I know how it feels to just want to get out of pain. That is all I wanted at the time was for the pain to stop!!!! And I would have tried anything!!!! Somedays I still feel that way but I am at the point now where I cannot think about getting sliced again.
You might have a totally different experience than I have had. The thing I cannot understand is WHY????? any doctor would pull BT meds????? That makes you want to not trust the professionals that you have to deal with in the future. I am so sorry that you are going through all this hell right now and I hope you find some kind of resolution and quickly.

I do agree with what many of the other members have already said ...... it seems as if some doctors do not really even listen to what is coming out of your mouth they just think they already know how you feel even though they have never been through what you are going through. I have had a Dr. insist on prescribing me a specific Rx even though I told him that I was allergic and he said that I should try it again. Of course my reaction this time was even worse. I wonder sometimes how these doctors would treat us if they had even a quarter of the pain that we deal with daily. It just becomes so frustrating.

Scarred .... I hope that you can find some answers and that the doctor you are dealing with opens his eyes and realizes that you are IN PAIN!!! As far as the SCS you may have better luck than I did. I hope these ten days go FAST!

Hi, Scarred,
I just wondered if you talked with your therapist (the psych you saw for a year)? Since WC is waiting on the psych eval, if your therapist was able to submit a letter that may also help, as he has more knowledge of you. Sounds like you're right on the edge of this thing tilting either way, and if you can lean on your side of the teeter totter (LOL) maybe you can get them to go in your favor.

Either way, I sure hope you get your BT meds back soon.

PaLady

Granted, I've never worked with WC, but I don't quite understand how it would be beneficial to submit a report to them that says that not only is the psych recommending against the SCS implant, but he also thinks you are exaggerating your pain. Wouldn't that just be fodder for them to start denying your pain meds & doctor's bills?

I don't know how WC works, but I do know that when my insurance company got a hold of a MDD diagnosis for me, they started changing what they would cover. They said that my PM should be covered under my mental health benefits -- of course the mental health insurer found that laughable. So I basically lost coverage of anything. And I got calls every couple of weeks from insurance company nurses who thought that the MDD was wholly causing my pain & if I could just "think positive & take a couple Advil", I would be cured. Never mind that my scans showed actual physical problems with my spine. ;)

Eventually I got my records corrected & they now cover everything, but I ended up with a thousands of dollars in medical bills that really should have been covered. I did appeal & everything, but mostly I just lost out. Now I know enough to fight stupid diagnoses that make no sense. If someone tells me I can't possibly be happy if I am in pain, so therefore I must have a depressive disorder & just be in denial about it, I now fight them. And I have a great PCP who is on my side now.

If there are any experts out there who tell you otherwise, maybe submitting the psych eval would be a good idea, but otherwise I would be very careful about giving the insurance company yet another excuse to deny coverage.

For now though, I just hope you can get your meds back so you can return to what semblance of a life they afforded.

peace,
frances