I'm new!

I just wanted to say welcome this is a good forum and your a part of our family now, but sorry that it
was under chronic pain...I've not been in your position but the treatment that hospital is giving you
is unjust, you deserve better treatment for all those years of work..make a list of everything that is
happening with you and take it with you to your neurosurgeon, make sure you mention lifting that
heavy patient, and hopefully, that will help at your appointment. Maybe you could be
a nurse patient adovcate. just a suggestion but first wait and see what your neuosurgeon says..
good luck with your appointment and keep us posted on that.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((wasrn))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
healing Hugz

Back from the neuro consult.  He wants to repeat the MRI next week because the only one I have is several months old.  He explained what's going on, he seemed particularly "interested" in the large herniation at the T12 and my squished spinal canal.  I did not tell him about my bladder problems, I just couldn't.  He suggested I get an attorney and judging by his facial expressions, I think he thought it insane for my employer to claim that "all is well, so come back and work like you did before, no restrictions".  You know they had the nerve to call it "psychosomatic"!?

Unfortunately, it looks like surgery will be necessary, but I am not ready, just not ready. What if I find work in a profession that's  kinder to my back? With some PT, chiropractic care and meds I could probably manage ok, right?  I'm not too keen on the surgery idea, don't want it at this point... what if it makes things even worse? What if I end up even more crippled, more in pain, dead?   Truth be told, I am plain scared, don't want to think about it. 

Hope you all had a good day.  Thank you for your friendship! 

Straydog, you're absolutely right, I need to take some time to regroup.  Suddenly I feel like things are moving too fast.  Got an attorney, so that's another thing on top of this plate of mine.

I need a little break from it all.  I kept in touch with some of my peers at work.  They all feel I've been treated like crap, but not one of them is surprised.  They also told me that no matter what happens, I will not longer be allowed to work there; surgery or not, they just don't want to take the risk, and I suppose that from a strictly business perspective, I see their point.

So now what I'm going to do is this (1) get together all the stuff the attorney has asked for and send it to her; (2) go back for a new MRI, then wait for the results; (3) take a much needed mental rest; hopefully it'll clear my head and help me make more logical decisions.  Right now it feels as if I'm being bombarded big time.

Thank you for your good advice.  I know you're right about me not telling the doc of the incontinence; guess a lot of nurses (and doctors) are great at preaching but not practicing.  I know it's a big no-no to withhold information, I've given lectures to my patients for doing exactly what I did yesterday, I have no excuse.  One other thing... I think I need to quit being so "proud" and pretend I'm super woman, that I am the rock, anyone can come to me with their problems but I can't reach out when it's my turn for some help.  It's not a kind thing to do to myself, is it? Got lots of homework to do!  But I'm going to do it and I will make it.

A good 2011 to everyone!

Thought I'd "drop by" and give an update.

will be going to see the neurosurgeon in a few days and discuss the second MRI.  His office assistant (not sure if she's his RN) said the MRI looked "a little better".  I am hoping this will mean no need for surgery, not for a while anyway.

I can tell my back feels better, but then I'm not surprised - haven't done anything to stress it!  I must admit that when I have really good days, I try to do more; unfortunately I invariably end up paying for it later in the day, the pain gets quite severe, can't find a position that feels good, etc.

A couple of weeks ago I received a certified letter from my employer stating I've been removed from their payroll.  The letter goes on to say that once I've been cleared by my doctor, I'm welcome to apply for a position there..... what a bunch of BS, I say.  we all know that isn't going to happen; they wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole, especially after I hired an attorney - they must really think people are either extremely gullible or plain stupid.

As I may have mentioned in the past, I did apply for disability and was denied (surprise, surprise), and the appeal was denied as well.  Got the same letter twice (initial application and after rejection of appeal), saying that although my condition is severe, they don't expect it to last more than a year.  It'll be a year in a few months. 

I have some questions for those of you who may have go through something similar; no, actually I have quite a few questions.  Please bear with me, I will try to explain as best I can, but I feel so confused...

1. I have someone who used to work for the disability dept. help me with the application.  At one point I said to him that I want to work and feel I could do some type of work.  He told me that it'd be a big mistake if I tried to work now. That SSD would definately reject my application and I wouldn't be able to re-apply.  He said that once I get disability, I will have a certain period of time to try and work.  He said (I'm paraphrasing here)" If you go to work and then a month or 8 months later you realize you just can't do it, you'll be out of everything... no disability for you".

Is this correct?

2. Will the neurosurgeon realize that although my back feels better and the MRI may look "a little better" that I still am unable to do clinical, bedside nursing? 

Went to see my doctor a few weeks ago and she said there's no question in her mind that I can no longer do that kind of work.  She said "Either they (the hospital!) re-train you or you'll have to re-train yourself in something different".... felt like saying "Right, but re-training usually means going back to school=money=money I do not have".  She told me there is an actual anatomical deformity in my back now, and doing certain types of work will only aggravate it.  Ok, I know that, though I still have a hell of a time accepting it.

3. Interestingly, I seldom feel pain directly in my back, it's mostly in my butt and thigh area.  I can pinpoint, I think, with great accuracy at the exact spots where I feel the pain: 3 on my right butt cheek and 2  on the left (I call them my bullseyes, lol).  Nerve endings, I'm sure. 

Here's my question to you: For the past several weeks, I've noticed a new sensation in my left leg... it's always been my right leg, now it's also the left.  It is a very precise area, the inside of my thigh, close to my knee.  It really feels like liquid trickling for about 3-4 inches and stops midway through the knee.  It's only a sensation, nothing spilled. 

Also, my neck has been bothering me, a lot of crackling and popping sounds.  Should I mention this to the neurosurgeon or should I keep my mouth shut (in case my employer screams "it's degenerative, we're not responsible!").

4. For those of you who have gone through all this, how did you manage with your medical care? Now I have no health coverage.  I need my blood pressure pills, will need refills on pain meds.  The doc gave me a business card so I can call and make an appt. with a counselor due to my persistent depression - can't see anyone, I have no health coverage. Last week I spent $10 and went to see a retired chiropractor who still sees patients but charges them nearly nothing ($10) 'cause he likes to keep busy.  After checking my back he said "My goodness, girl, have you been in some awful wreck?"  Thanks....  His treatment didn't help, I'm afraid.

5. A week before Christmas my husband came home with a lay-off slip (construction work).  Yup, from bad to worse.  Got a letter from the mortgage company (we're late), cut off notices from the electric and heating company, just got another one from the water dept.  I'll tell you, when it rains, it pours, and we're getting soaked big time!  Any money I had for my old age is gone, all to keep the bank from foreclosing.  Should the SSD know about this?

Sorry for this very long post, sometimes I feel I'm at my wits' end, and sometimes I feel emotionally numb.  Any advice will be so greatly appreciated.  I try to ficus on what we still have, but it's so hard sometimes

Purplereading,

I was injured at work, caring for a combative 400+ lbs patient in our ICU.  No help, just me and another nurse, no equipment to help us do the job easier and safer.

Was sent to their own occupational health doctor, did PT and steroids, more PT.  Then told him about some of the symptoms I was having and he requested a neuro consult.  we did not hear back from the adjustor.  When I called her, she said my case was in the hands of another person and I should be calling her with all my questions and requests. I called this person for nearly a week, twice a day, requesting an appt. with their doctor as I was hurting badly, but still on light duty, working half a day during the week. Then the doctor I originally went to see (their doctor) received word from the higher ups that his request for a neurosurg. consult was denied.  They claim they had their own specialist (whom I've never seen) review the MRI report, and he said that at most I suffered from soft tissue injury.... what a crock! That ASA and OTC Tylenol is all I need and that I could return to work with no restriction.  He also insinuated it may be all psychosomatic, that there was no indication of nerve damage (though the NCV studies showed otherwise!).

The case manager never returned my calls.  After 5 days or so I no longer could stand it and I went to see my own doctor, who quickly ordered no more work until seen by a neurosurgeon.  When that happened, the hospital stopped paying all wage replacements, saying it was not their doctor who said I could not work until seen by the surgeon.  They ignored the fact that I felt I had no other choice but see my own doc because their case manager wouldn't return my calls and approve a visit with their own doctor.

Looking back, I think it was done on purpose.... either that or I've become paranoid, lol

Though I paid into the short term and long term disability, according to the hospital and the booklet I have, I did not qualify for either because it was a work-related injury.  I eventually hired an attorney.  A few weeks ago I received the letter saying I'm no longer on their payroll (I guess another way to say I no longer work there).  My husband came home just before Christmas with his lay-off slip.  We're falling behind on all bills and we do not have the $800 a month for Cobra now; it sure is a mess! Checked on other health ins. coverage, but I would not be covered because this is considered a pre-existing condition.  I'm really at a loss; depressed doesn't begin to describe how I feel.

They do not subscribe to the State WC, they have their own coverage (apparently this is the only State where employers can opt out).

My attorney is familiar with my ex employer; won a few cases against them already, and gets angry at the mere mention of their name

My attorney said that "if this doesn't work, we're going to get them for negligence." (not sure what was meant by "this", I was so upset about it all....).

I do remember that about a month ago I expresed concern about my bills, and my attorney (who has been charging me by the hour for services) said,  "don't worry about my bill, we can always do this on a contingency fee..."

I was feeling really, really low, but my husband said that was a good thing to hear, that an attorney wouldn't change the way he gets paid (from hourly to contingency) unless he's confident to win the case.  Don't know... do you think that's true?

Thank you; thank you all for the support and advice.  I am so grateful I found this forum; blessings to all

Hi WasRN,

I was reading through your thread and there are a few things that you have posted that are alarming to me .

First, you need to tell that neurosurgeon you are seeing if you are experiencing any difficulty with maintaining your urine stream , starting  or stopping the flow of urine or your bowels for that matter. It is truly IMPORTANT that you get past the embarassment of talking about it, and let him know that you are having problems with going to the bathroom. Can I ask you a question, does the toilet paper feel "different" than it did previously? What I mean is, do you experience a change in sensation when you wipe?

The new numbness is a concern as well (buttocks), and where it located is also a concern ( inner thighs).

I want you to look up Cauda Equina syndrome and read, multiple sites.

I developed post op Cauda Equina Syndrome after my first back surgery. Not knowing any better, the lack of sensation and the unrelenting , excrutiating pain I experienced, and being sent home less than 40 hours post op from a major back surgery 7 hours long, led to me not getting the surgery that could have fixed my now permanent injury to the spinal nerves that are responsible for my bladder and bowel, the sensation or lack thereof in my legs, thighs, feet and have forever altered my ability to stand and walk......I'm going to be 47 in a few days.....I have to use a wheelchair most days to get around and even then the back pain and the  nerve pain is unrelenting.

If I had recognized the symptoms, and if I could have gotten my doctor to listen to anything other than how talented his hands were because of the extent of the damage in there, I might have had a different outcome.

You need to know that the longer you allow the damage from CES ( Cauda Equina Syndrome) to continue, the less likely that the nerves will recover.

If what you are experiencing is CES, you need surgery and you need it right away.

I hope that I am wrong, I truly do, but your symptoms, are alarming to me.

If you have any questions, you can directly email me by following the links next to my screen name here.

Best wishes to you,

Sandi

Now, I am even more worried than before for you. You NEED to tell your surgeon, even if you can only manage to write it down on paper and give it to him or print off this thread and give it to the surgeon that way.
The thing with CES is that, it doesn't always cause horrific back pain, the damage is done there, and as with the spinal cord, the injury is from the level in the back injured down, so anything below the injured level is effected somehow.
In fact, I am going to suggest very, very strongly to you that you get in touch with the surgeon's office first thing in the morning and get in as an emergency. The longer you put off doing something about this, the worse and more permanent the outcome will be. You don't want to be that 51 year old woman wearing adult diapers and afraid to be around family and friends because you are having accidents without knowing.....do you? I know that you don't.
The most embarrassing thing for me was having to go and admit to my surgeon that I couldn't tell when I was peeing all over myself.......we never got to the bowels part because he heard that I couldn't tell that I was peeing all over and I was on my way to another MRI. I couldn't go anywhere other than to my doctor's office and even then I was terrified that if I moved or sneezed or coughed that I would pee all over myself. I do so understand your embarassment and your fear.
The reason that there may have been a slight improvement in your MRI , is simply because they are positional- one time you can lay just a microcentimeter off of the way you lay previously and it can "appear" that things are worse or better than before. You are also laying down for the test, so you are taking pressure off of the spine for a moment.
I didn't think that I limped either, but in reality, I do and quite noticably, requiring an afo so that I can walk.
The thud that you hear or feel is most probably the shifting /clunking of the vertebra as you lift the leg. Mine does that as well but it is when I sit or lay down these days. It isn't necessarily painful but sounds like it should be......

They are much like a picture, a photograph of a split second in time.
Listen, I know you are scared to death and you have every reason to be, but you have even more reason to do something NOW, while you still have time for this NOT to become a permanent way of life for you, only IF you let the surgeon know what is TRULY going on with you.....if you don't, you may wind up like me.......and I would hate for that to happen to you.
My email is [email protected]. Write to me there if you would feel more comfortable.....
Hang in there lady, we will help you through this,
Sandi

First, you aren't pestering me. I would rather that you ask any questions, rather than not.
I've had MRI's that were done in the same manner, pillow under knees, etc and had them have drastically different results in the readings. It amazes me still that each person can see something so totally different in the same MRI or CT scan for that matter. Any imaging study is only a split second in time. Moving or altered positioning, standing up or sitting or even your daily activities can make the things seen on these films different from day to day.
I'm personally glad that your husband is going with you. Your surgeon NEEDS to know what truly is going on with you so that he can address your treatment accordingly. Look at it this way, it is no different than if a brittle diabetic comes into your ICU because they have been throwing ketones for weeks now and you are led to believe they have been taking their insulin the right way, and then you find out that they weren't all along and now you have to alter their treatment.
Without all of the relevant information, your surgeon is only guessing as to what is truly going on with you, and basing his treatment plan of cautiously watching and waiting or emergent surgery based on half of the information he needs to make the correct medical diagnosis and treatment plan.
As I said, I know that it's embarrassing but if he knows, he can do something about it and he's heard it all before. I had one of my most embarassing accidents the same day that I had an appointment with my doctor. I was so late because of it, and of course, didn't have the time to even call, as it happened when I picked up my purse to go out the door. I didn't even know it happened and of course, by the time I got there, I was so upset, both over the accident itself, not knowing the cause of it, and the embarassment of it happening. Like you, my husband knew what was happening to me, but I was so ashamed, I didn't want to leave a mess on the floor so our kids saw it , so I had to clean it up before I left.
It got worse as time went on for me as well. It does that because the nerves running to the bladder and bowels are in the lumbar region of the spine. When they are compromised, little to no signal is sent to the bowel sphincters to relax or retract and to the bladder to contract to allow the urine and feces to be voided. Over time, the lack of the nerve signals causes our bodies to hold more and more urine, until the bladder is so stretched that it reaches it's maximum capacity and then it suddenly contracts and releases the urine. In the bowels, the lack of nerve signal can either cause a loose sphincter or an overly tight one , depending on the specfic nerves involved. If a person has nerve damage to the sphincter, they can not sustain a muscle contraction and/or there is an involuntary release of the sphincter muscles as the bowel becomes over full.
Does that explain why it seems to worsen over time? The less nerve impulses a muscle recieves over time, causes laxity or over contractility in the effected muscles and then we find ourselves where we are.
You can pester me at any time.....I really want to help but more importantly, want you to see your surgeon as soon as possible....

You are so very, very welcome.......and I am so relieved to hear that you are going to see the surgeon tomorrow. I will be watching for an update. Please make sure to tell him all of the symptoms you are having or have him email me.....LOL
I know you said that your husband is going with you. so hold his hand, if you start to feel embarassed or ask your husband to take over explaining if you can't do it yourself.
I do know how embarassing it is, and I also know too well how not getting the treatment you need can change your life in ways you don't want to imagine.......so please, do it, giving all of the information he needs to make the right decisions and ask him about Cauda Equina Syndrome.
I will be with you in spirit tomorrow,
Sandi

Thank you, White Beard

The hospital HR dept. sent me a certified letter stating that as my LOA had expired, my name was taken off their payroll.  I though LOA was for at least 6 months.  I continued to work light duty until nearly the end of August, so I think they should consider the length of the LOA from August, not from the time of my injury - but they didn't.

I read the booklet that was given to us at the beginning of employment, you know, where they tell you about the health coverage options, dental/vision benefits, short&long term disability, etc.  Sure enough, it says right in that book that short term and long term coverage only applies to non-work related illness or injury.  You're correct, the money for both was always deducted from each paycheck, but sure looks like I paid into it for nothing.

What I still cannot fathom is how they felt it was their right to cut me off from wage replacement as soon as I went to see my own doctor (I did because their adjustor wouldn't dignify me with a call back).  They claim it wasn't their "approved" doctor who took me off work, therefore no wage replacement.  I know I'm repeating myself, but I couldn't see their "approved" doctor because they wouldn't approve a visit to him, because they never called his office or my home to say "Yes, you can go see him"!

Then they came up with this "spine expert" doctor who tells them there's nothing wrong with me, that I can go back to work with no restrictions, that at the most I need aspirin or Tylenol, that it may all be just a psychosomatic thing. He also added there is no evidence of nerve involvement, yet the NCV study was pitiful.  They have the results, but haven't said a word about them... how convenient - ignore it and it'll go away, right?  Boy, do I have some choice names for this "expert" whom I've never seen in my life, he's someone who gets paid by the hospital to act as their expert and deny employees' injuries/claims!

My appt. with the neurosurgeon is tomorrow afternoon.  I will be able to tell you something tomorrow night.  I'm now trying to find a cheap way to refill my prescriptions, including my blood pressure medication, which they had to increase (the doc says probably because of the pain and the stress.... whatever, I now take it 3 times a day instead of twice, not happy about it one bit.

I don't understand why the other injured nurses aren't fighting back, they all seem so passive, so complacent.  One is still going around with some special belt.  She transferred but still needs the belt.  The other ones take pain pills and try to carry on as best they can.... I just do not understand this martyr syndrome    I understand they need to work (who doesn't?), but after a few months of light duty, the higher ups tell them "we're cutting you off because by now you should be all recovered from your injury". So, faced with no wage replacement,  most of them used up their sick leave hours and returned to full duty.  I just don't get it.

I always knew there was a lot of "dirt" covered up in that place.  Now that I'm no longer there, I hear of so many other unfair treatments, it's not funny.  An attorney could have a ball slamming a class action suit against them, but that won't happen because most employees there are afraid to lose their job... sad, really.

Ok, I'm back home, tired for some reason;  guess 2+ hrs. car drive gets to me, but we stopped twice on the way there and back.

Let's see if I remember it all correctly... still have to "digest" some of the stuff (just me playing ostrich).  While in the waiting room, I was looking at their own advertising, being #1 in the State for spinal surgery, etc. etc.  Then started talking with 2 patients.  They simply raved about the neurosurgeon, one lady saying she'd let him take care of her own grandchildren who can't even speak yet.  Then the other patient told me how this particular surgeon removed a pitchfork that was stuck in a teenager's brain, etc. etc.  

Had to wait less than 10 minutes. Husband came along and almost immediately he starts telling the doc about my urinary problem.  I was mortified and just covered my face, the doc murmuring "it's ok" (and me feeling like "It's ok with you, you don't pee your pants...").

So, anyway, he says the MRI is pretty much like the first one I had, there may be a very little improvement on a couple of discs, but his biggest concern is the T12.  He goes on to explain that it's a very large herniation and that the vast majority of neurosurgeons will avoid messing with it because it's too risky.  He said "At that level, it's not like I can just push your spinal cord aside..."

He believes, though he's not positive, that the bladder issue is due to the T12 problem.  There is no cauda equina syndrome, thank goodness.  In fact he showed me that at that level there's enough space.  So basically he'd rather see me dribble than risk paralyzing me by messing with the infamous T12.  I must agree with him. 

He said that although I have several damaged discs, surgery will take care of the lower ones, but the one causing the majority of my problems is at the T12, and because he really, really, really does not want to tackle it, then he says "why do surgery on the others when most of your problems stem from T12?"  Again, I agree.

In the end, he suggested to leave it be, but he surely emphasized to watch for certain things such as weakness in the legs, or legs giving out, anything that would suggest a worsening of the condition.  I told him I would consider surgery if I was only a step away from a permanent wheelchair; he understood and agreed.  He told me I have no business lifting anything; he said "Certainly nothing over 20 pounds, and even that you shouldn't".

Then my husband mentioned my nursing career.  I didn't want to look at him, yet with peripheral vision I still caught the surgeon's expression, he was shaking his head and then he said "No, she can't".  On the way back I cracked a few jokes and then started bawling like a baby, which I feel like doing again NOW, and I must stop!  My goodness, there are people who've gone thought greater losses, so I'd better quit this self-pity party, I need to deal with it.  So nursing is over for me, my life isn't, right?

I hope I have remembered everything correctly.  Don't be surprised if I come back and add something; my mind has been playing funny tricks on me lately.

Lastly, I just want to say that you're all a God-send for me.  We may be "strangers", we don't know where we live (well, at least for some of us), what we look like, etc. etc.,  and yet it feels like we're family.  Thank you, thank you, thank you, dear friends!

Oh, I did send an email to my attorney, asking "Ok, where do we go from here?" Also asked about that short term and long term insurance the hospital claims I do not qualify for.  Will let you know what happens.

WasRN I can only echo what Whitebeard has said. No, it is not the end of your world although it does seem that way to you for now. It is always very difficult in the beginning when you first start the journey of an injury, illness or anything that causes your life as you have know it to do a complete 360 degree turn. Many of us on here have been there and done that and have started over and learned how to make a different life living with CP. Is is easy, no, does it happen fast & easy, no. but it can & does happen, depends a lot on how much a person is willing to put in to it. Pity parties are great, we all have them, just don't let one last over 24 hours, and please extend an invite to us. You will always be invited to mine. Coming to terms with your injury and limitations is going to be a very big thing for you to accept. The sooner you can accept this the sooner you go on to sort of healing in a way. You just go through so many different emotions. Acceptance is the big one though. Just remember you did not do this to your body on purpose and don't ever blame yourself. All I can say is it takes time, things really do get better as time goes on.

I am glad to hear that you emailed the atty about the STD & LTD. I hope there is something there that can be done on your behalf. Try to take some time and let things absorb. Take care.