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DEA"bullies" NM pharmacies to limit Oxycodone Rx's to no more than #120 30 mg p/month. Is

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Posted 3/24/2013 7:42 AM (GMT 0)
Last Monday I went to pick up my regular monthly (3 years running ) Rx of #240 Oxycodone 30mg 1 to 2 every 4 hrs. at my usual pharmacy. I was received with some consternation by my friendly pharmacy mngr. who told me that the DEA had "instructed" all NM pharmacies to limit their Oxy30 Rx's to #120. NM has the highest per capita drug death rate (please google this as there is no other link to this action) in the country. The info in the articles only states that the action has been taken and gives no legal basis for it.
Do any of you other CPs have knowledge of the legality of this action? The reason given was that the agency wants patients to switch to ER formulations which I have tried unsuccessfully. I suffer from long term cancer pain and cannot simply switch from a regimen that took my oncologist 3 years of trial and error to come up with. Any comments or info would be appreciated . . .Quincy
Posted 3/24/2013 12:33 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know about NM but sometime back they limited the number of bottles of oxy a pharmacy can have on hand.

Also drs were the biggest buyer of oxy in Florida a few years back and were prescribing and then requiring patients to fill in house at a ridiculous cost and cash only or pay upwards of $1000 for an office visit if they wish to fill at an outside pharmacy.

Part and parcel of the drug problem and pill mills in florida and the northern states.

The rebound effects of this is now far reaching and what YOUR seeing in NM and other states.

I'm on my way out this morning but will be back later to give you more info if someone else doesn't come along and fill in the gaps.

Vickie
Posted 3/24/2013 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Exactly,nvr. Ever since the mega drug distributor, Cameron, got caught supplying those FL pill mills things are going downhill. NM was not accused of running mills, we're just stuck with the correlation between poverty and substance abuse.
Posted 3/24/2013 3:32 PM (GMT 0)
sorry to hear that, quincy. I too have advanced cancer and fighting chronic cancer related pain. no such restrictions have shown up here in SC so far, and hope they don't. For starters, I would contact your oncologist, and see if he/she can fight this in your case. I had one small episode with my drug store about a year ago, and my doctor went into a rage with the pharmacist, and won. Said he didn't want the drug store to dictate or change his prescription needs for his cancer patients. It might be worth a shot.

John Q. Public, is getting a bad view of us legitimate CP patients, based on how the media is playing it up for ratings, at our expense. Something needs to change, for sure, or more suffering is going to take place.

Good luck to you,

david in SC
Posted 3/24/2013 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thx David,
My onc sounds like yours, she is royally PO'd! So is my sweet pharmacist,she told me that under the Controlled Substance Act, CSA, the DEA can legally tell both your onc and your pharm how to Rx you. This is all aimed at limiting the street availability of IR drugs which is where my problem comes in. My wife, C, is disabled so I need to be able to drive and all the ER drugs that I have tried . . .Contin, Opana, and FTD . . . have made me woozy behind the wheel. After three years of this I had come up with the perfect combo, OxycodoneIR for the deep, chronic pain and Fentora 600mcg for instant relief of acute pain. I posted this topic as a warning for others around the country as the DEA is bound and determined to get everyone that is on what they consider a high dose of IR drugs to switch to ER versions which just aren't as effective or as controllable. I've placed a similar topic on the CP forum board so that this subject can get a thorough airing. As for me, I'm sure that ill be fine at the half dose they put me on. There's no way that I'm going to take ER drugs again . . .Q
Posted 3/24/2013 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe you can supplement the other half of what they wont give you in Oxy 30's with another IR pain med, at least to partially make up the difference.
Posted 3/24/2013 11:32 PM (GMT 0)
Ok sorry I'm back. To finish what I was saying. Here in Florida with the limits in place I've heard rumors that even when they have it theyre likely to tell you that they don't unless your a cash customer.

They are so limited and medicare/Medicaid and alot of the prescription drug plans pay at a much lower cost and much longer process of getting their money that they "hold out"

I'm inclined to think maybe there's some truth to the rumors and even witnessed such a thing once a Walgreens.

I was waiting and a girl came in with a script from PM clinic in Orlando and the tech took the scripts to the Rph and comes back and asks for insurance info and birthdate. The girl says it's Medicaid and its in the computer. She sits down and about 5 mins or so they call her to tell her that they don't have any.

I'm at one window paying and a guy gives the other window a script of the same roxy 30s and the process starts the same except this guy has no insurance cash only. I go to get some children's Tylenol and a thermometer for my granddaughter and when I get back to the pharmacy they are handing the guy his meds and he paid with an envelope of $20s.??? A little strange.

I don't know where it's going to end but I don't think it's going to be a happy outcome for us as Cpers.
Posted 3/25/2013 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
I'm sitting here reading the Daytona Beach News Journal online and there is an article,don't know how to get it here,about Washington's lawmakers going to the Supreme court's over big pharmaceutical companies that "Pay to Delay" generic versions of their drugs,costing Americans millions in prescription drug costs each year.

What in the world? It looks like the huge companies pay the little generic companies to sit on the generic version so they can continue to reap huge profits claiming they need to cover the costs of trials and manufacturing as well as FDA approvals and trials.

Does it take years of meds at ungodly costs like the Oxy? How much money is enough? How about when the insurance companies say no we are not going to pay for the costs any longer and we have to change meds when all along the generic cheaper version has been ready years but the company's getting paid to not release it to consumers?

If someone can get the link here for others to read I would be grateful.

Vickie
Posted 3/25/2013 3:31 AM (GMT 0)
Vickie, I read the same story today about the "delay" on generic drugs, and I don't see or understand how that would be either legal or ethical at the least. It's so unfair, the utter control and greed that most drug companies get by with, especially here in the U.S.

Combine this story, plus what is going on in some states with the main topic of this thread, just what is a patient suppose to do?

david
Posted 3/25/2013 4:18 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Quincy I'm sorry you had a hard time with the pharmacist.

Boy, this whole thing sounds crooked to me. It scares me.

hugs
Loretta
Posted 3/25/2013 5:05 AM (GMT 0)
Any chance your doctor could or would write you scripts for 10 and 20 mg doses in quantities to make up the difference in what you are unable to get in the 30 mg dose?
Posted 3/25/2013 5:58 AM (GMT 0)
Somehow David I see this as all tying together.

Folks like Quincy go to fill and the pharmacy won't allow that due to limits set forth and them only being allowed to have 6bottles on hand. At the 6 bottles rate the big companies are going to require much longer patents to recoup money spent on trials,manufacturing and distribution. Therefore relaying even longer the release of generic forms.

In the end folks like Quincy have to change to higher level or the LA or extended release which always cost more than short acting meds for us the consumer and the manufacturers due to higher overhead for longer extensive trials.

It's all a viscious cycle with the drug companies winning since we are not voices they hear often.

Drs are getting frustrated being controller by varying lawmakers and the Dea now are telling them how and with what to treat their patients.

It will be interesting to see how Quincys Dr responds to this.

VICKIE
Posted 3/25/2013 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
Thx for all the info, ESP. that from FL as I see this as quite similar to their situation. my plan is to simply reduce my dosage, less is best, right?
Vickie, thank you so much for all your posts, the "pay to wait" scam has been around for years, you scratch my back, etc. . . Q
Posted 3/26/2013 7:52 AM (GMT 0)
Your most welcome Quincy. I think your right. The ripples are crossing many states from Florida and hoping they get some control authority destroying US with the addicts and converters of these meds.

I'm glad to read then that someone is going to the Supreme court's over big pharmaceutical industry and the fact that this is and has been happening.

Do they not realize or care that the crap such as that makes their medicine untouchable to many who really may benefit from it?

Vickie
Posted 3/26/2013 11:51 AM (GMT 0)
Vickie . . . For at least the past 6 years the deal has been that the patent holder gets to pick the first licensee and that co. was supposed to put out its product at the patent holder's price for the first 6 months. Then the field was supposed to open up to all comers. I had not heard of theses new changes until now though its no surprise.
I switched from Contin to IR in 2009 when Purdue basically de-licensed its generic partners. I switched to the FTD for ER relief and Oxycodone 30mg 4/d for BTP. After my wife's disability made it necessary for me to drive 24/7 in 2012 I tapered from 125mcg FTD to 0 over a 6 month period and increased the Oxycodone IR to 8/d. That was the best pain relief I have had in 6 years of fighting PCa and now The bloody DEA is wanting me to switch back to ERDrugs that I feel make me a danger behind the wheel and give me less control over my dosage length and strength. What's up with that?
I hope that some sanity returns to this country's drug policy and soon, until then I'll have to either reduce dosage or add methadone to my pain regimen. Do you or anyone else out there know how the two would mix? Thx again . . . Q
Posted 3/27/2013 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
Quincy when I took a b/t med with my methadone it was percocet so I know oxycodone in itself mix ok. Of course as with any combo and s many differing factors Im sure not everyone has had the success I did with the two.

I currently on methadone alone as a base med and use other modalities post-op 6yrs and no longer have had to have a rescue med on board. Knock on wood!! Im one of the rare ones that have had that kind of luck.

So its possible this may work out for you and at least you wont be left with just half of your normal dose and in pain.

I think its got so far too many non-medical agencies have their hands in pot of practicing medicine these days from the companies that make the drugs to the Drs that prescribe and the pharmacy that fill,they real qualified folks to treat us are not allowed to do so without the permission or okay from all the ruling agencies.

One of the very reasons we have far less PM Drs then any other specialty these days. Their Malpractice insurance is ridiculous,they have to fear the DEA knocking their doors in if they go over the limits or prescribe too many for more patients or patients without cancer related pain,they get shunned by others in their fields as pill mills,really? I wouldnt risk everything I am or everything I have to practice in PM either. I applaud those who do!!

Use to be you had a Dr a RPH and the RPH filled what the DR wrote allowing for the fact that he knows his patient is familiar with your history and makes an educated decision based on those kinds of things. Now days its not so,they refuse to fill Drs scripts daily.

There are far too many people having a say in my medical care then should be.

I could rant on forever but it never changes much. Lol

Vickie
Posted 3/27/2013 1:02 AM (GMT 0)
I'm really really lucky that I live in a small town. The pharmacy I go to knows and trusts my doc, so if her name is on a script, and the patient is a repeat customer on top of it...well they're gonna fill that script.

I've lived in big cities where noone knows anyone, and I have to say its a big relief to live somewhere now where they remember my face and remember my history and thus work FOR me rather than against.
Posted 3/27/2013 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
Hiya Vickie,
You are a true HW friend indeed!
LexieRae, I sure hear you on the small town pharmacy thing. I live in a 3 shop town and always go to the same one. The staff all know my wife and I by name, that's what has me so ticked off about the DEA sticking its nose into my med business. Not even A, the mngr. can fill my Rx. I wish you both the best . . . Q
PS: I think I'll give the methadone a try as a half dose is not cutting it.
Posted 3/27/2013 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
I have never had my pharmacy give me trouble with filling prescriptions. Luckily. I have had my PCP refuse to write a prescription for painkillers, both tramadol and hydrocodone. She did not give me a clear reason, aside from "You don't need these." She seemed to not believe in fibro, or perhaps she had some problems with the DEA, or perhaps she did not believe in me. At any rate, I no longer see her as a physician.
Posted 3/27/2013 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds like you made the smart choice, 09 . . . Q
Posted 3/29/2013 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
In doing some research in another thread, I read that one of the DEA's stated duties is to ensure that medications are available. That may mean rationing in some areas, as in telling a pharmacy how many they can have in stock of a high demand medication, especially if there is no generic. A drugstore in Manhattan in NYC would reasonably have more in stock than a mom and pop in a smaller town.

The same applies to things like anti-virals or heavy anti-biotics, because the higher population density means that things spread quicker than they do in the suburbs or rural areas. So the cities get to stock more of them in case some viral breakout gets out of hand, meds can get to more people, helping to stem the spread of whatever weird flu bug is out there.

In theory, that's how the DEA gets involved. They also look at other suspicious things, you may be one of 8 or 10 customers at one store who require a large amount medically, but the neighboring ones don't have the demand. That's going to send a red flag at the DEA, because all meds are reported when they ship. If there are 4 stores in a town, let's say, and one of them just happens to get more than 25% of the CP patients as customers, that's what they look at.

And the limits are set by the state. The DEA are cops. The DEA specifically does not restrict the amount or the medication prescribed. They may investigate it, but the state you live in controls the drug laws. An example I used earlier is Mississippi, which requires a prescription for the original formulation of Sudafed, or any other medication that has pseudoephedrine in it. It's over the counter (or behind the counter, where you have to show your ID) in the rest of the country.
Posted 3/29/2013 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
why should we be penalized if we are not criminals?
Posted 3/29/2013 5:01 AM (GMT 0)
Here in SC, Sudafed is behind the counter, but all you have to be, is over 18 and ask for it.
Posted 3/29/2013 7:13 AM (GMT 0)
I hope this clears up the issue of the DEA limiting the quantities of controlled substances:

"... there are no express federal limits with respect to the quantities of drugs dispensed via a prescription. However, the amount dispensed must be consistent with the requirement that a prescription for a controlled substance be issued only for a legitimate medical purpose by a practitioner acting in the usual course of professional practice."

This comes directly from the DEA website (dea.gov).
Posted 3/29/2013 7:17 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Splash... for posting that quote and information.

--Tina
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