24 hrs into med change. Ugh!!

Vickie:

It sounds like you're doing GREAT, except for your pain being off the charts (((hugs))). That will have to be addressed, but it really sounds like coming off the Methadone has been a great choice for you. You're doing a fabulous job, especially since you have company.

Sounds like you make Chicken and Dumplings like I do. I showed my hubby how to make my Mom's recipe this past Friday night. Actually, the heat treatments and radiation have me so wiped out I could do it. So, I instructed from the chair, the only part I did was to hand drop the dumplings in the broth. Can't say I know how to do a pecan pie though. Bet it was really yummy.

Keep up the good work and I hope they figure out something for you soon to control your pain.

Hugs,
Barbara

Vickie,

I started with your first post (again), and read all the way through.

It bears repeating, the difference in how and what you're writing from that first post to now is remarkable.

I read it again because it serves as a good reminder any time any of us feel afraid about d/c a medication.

This has been a very important journey to record, and I think you for sharing.

M.

You have to be very careful with the Butrans and other opiates, though. Because the Butrans hogs the receptors, it can force a withdrawal from the methadone. Just wanted to put that out there. I had to stop Butrans because it made me basically waste my b/t meds, and then after four weeks the patches became unbearable. Super itchy and painful, they were basically eating my skin. I am on fent patches and love them. So far they are the best meds (pills included!) that I have tried thus far.

I also wanted to say great job to Vickie!! That is really hard to do, but lowering your baseline narc coverage is so beneficial for chronic pain management. I try to do that about once a month actually. Ill go without patches for a few days and just rely on b/t meds and then find the day after putting the patches on sort of resets my need. :)

Thanks for the positive feedback, its really appreciated. Started drinking protein smoothies (w/o sugar powder) and appears I was severely constipated. The protein worked at first like a laxative/colon cleanser. Had a hard time keeping it down at first (w/o diaharrea) but am retaining it now. Started eating raw vegatables, white chicken meat, avoiding sugars and feel a whole lot better in my abdomen now, no cramps or pains. The jerks are driving me crazy, the insomnia is really overwhelming. My pain doc has tried clonipin, clonidine, and one other benzo. All make me feel wired so have stopped them all. Healthy diet is really helping. Too weak still to do much exercise except walk around grocery store. I have heard from numerous sources that THC really helps with the jerks and sleeping. Not advocating this for anyone else but at this point I'm open to any and all alternatives besides going back to methadone. Still really difficult, my mind keeps wanting to justify going back to methadone. (For last year was only on 20mg a day, and that's not much compared to most people)...but I was starting to have problems with some insomnia and was craving a little higher dose to get some sleep). That's where I'm at right now, and I feel emotionally all over the map (yelling, crying, groaning, etc.) and hate this hellish twilight zone feeling. Thanks again. -Mike

Post Edited (blessmymess) : 11/25/2013 7:01:21 AM (GMT-7)

excuse my typing skills. now, the theory that long term opioid use may cause a "wind-up" of sympathetic nervous system and produce hyperalagesia or super-power pain. this line of thinking is slowly but surely going away, prob due to new findings with neuroplascity, a slang term has popped up, "the cure is not the cause" in this case the symptom controller cannot be cause of symptoms and pain manifestations. i believe this is true. if so, the process you now apprx 5-7 days have been under subjection of is the opposite of what you need your brain/dorsal horn of spinal cord to be in. it is imprinting pathways that are hard to undo every conscious thought of your feelings. the buprenorphine and i bet still as yet un-used methadone leeching in bloodstream is the Worst possible thing not for now or next week but for next decade or more. if i were you, i would go in: have your vitals triaged, if BP 130/90 or more and Pulse rate 80 beats per minute or higher and a weight loss that would be from dehydration it is hard evidence you are in abstinence syndrome. not W/Ds because this does not apply, should be no plan to detox and then start over, sadly it does not work. so, that will be evident and that if it so you are prob still feeling your pain, not achy abstinence syndrome pain, your pain generator. if you are all filtering systems that were more in place or "agonized" are now deactivated. i digress, the protein is essential to give your body raw material to form these filters:serotonin, endorphin, enkephalin, noradrenaline, dopamine, postaglandins(the good ones), ect...if you like you can use an amino acid complex that gives these filter builders in pre-metabolized 100% bioavailable tablet or powder form. i implore you to ask for doc to initiate treatment with Opana ER if covered by insurance or if you are a multi-millionaire if not a very cheap good option is generic Morphine sulfate ER, SR, XR comes at 15mg, 30mg, 60mg, 100mg, 200mg. the Opana has a generic but still$$$, comes at 5, 7.5, 10, 20, 30, 40mg and Oxymorphone IR or conventional formulation has almost same time properties of methadone, it is 5mg and 10mg mostly for BT Pain but i used it as long acting med at dose of 20mg 4 times per day, would still but $$$$. i can get you apprx a dozen more med options. i got to step back and break a moment. i would not do this at all but, you have hurt/been in limbo to long and if i could stop it now for you i would give all that i have if i could to make it stop and pull you out of your current comfort level. you are tough. i think all the regs on this forum are tough and the moderators are so righteous in their sacrifice to put in time and offer moral support which is as genuine as can be to help us and the whole while they suffer. wow, what unsearchable love. i think if we all ran for office and won this country would look at the poor, hungry, homeless, sick, young and old in a much much more loving empathetic way. i say the greatest thing to have happened to me in my 35years is my pain. now i love and see that i was a jerk, never would have happened that way without pain! i know this is bending a rule but i feel it is ok deep down; this is us=1Peter chp.1 vs. 7. maybe our pain is purifying the metal and the fire of pain cooked the dross or junk off us.

Pretty sure I'm close to being in "Abstinence Syndrome". After being in hospital Friday my pain mgmt person finally just got back with me and wanted me to go back on Methadone. I had a mini-protest and asked to be put on Opana ER as I was admonished to go that route by someone that knows more than I do. I was not given medical instruction to go this route, only friendly, loving advice which I considered, and is the route I have now chosen to go. Was told to use for 2 weeks at fairly high dose (my wife is on her way to pick it up now) and that I can continue using up to 6  10mg percs daily for breakthrough pain. I really don't want to use percs anymore cuz they really clog me up and make back pain feel a lot worse. The laxatives that work best on me are the suppositories (which also give me racy feeling I get from all benzos). I was also told that if the Opana ER doesn't work, I'll need to go back on Methadone. That would make this whole ordeal I've been going through feel like an exercise in futility, masochism, and stupidity (on my part for not finding out more facts before acting). I considered going Ibogaine route in Canada but when the person on the phone there found out what I was going through, and my frail condition, they strongly advised me against it. They even told me it might very well kill me. I was encouraged to get healthy and stable and could consider later. Cool person to talk to, even asked what I planned to do for the "physical" pain after the treatment. Very informative, encouraging, and yet discouraging at the same time. Know it is controversial but a lot of things are, we all have to walk out this stuff different ways. Appreciate all the feedback, etc. from everyone. I'll update how the Opana works and hope it helps me start getting some sleep. Hopefully this is a small ray of light coming through a very dark and cloudy ordeal. -Mike

Thanks for chiming in and your genuine concern. Just started Opana at 3pm today and man is it doing strange things with me. I put some music on, started singin' and dancin' around even though I've had maybe 30 min. sleep in last 48hrs! Weird, huh? Still have some jerkin' in my legs and arms. I am still using percs with the Opana to control back pain. I've gone from level 8 pain in back to 6 and feel it's getting better. Hopeful to get down to level 4 pain, I can function pretty good at that level still. Anyone that's been down this road before with these meds (or has good reliable info) that can tell me what to expect? Good and bad with basic time table would be great. It would be nice to have info for pain meds stating: "Before you to start or discontinue this med, here's what to expect, the good the bad and the ugly". I've gone blind into many meds "trusting" the doc but then discovering that not all docs have a clue or personal experience with addiction/pain mgmt. You all are awesome people and appreciate all you bring to the table.
-Mike

Post Edited (blessmymess) : 11/26/2013 5:58:02 PM (GMT-7)

Welcome ktk81. Methadone I believe is hardest drug to w/d or switch from because it works in our system and receptors in a "dug in" fashion. It doesn't like being traded for some new drug and is p.o.'d. I've been in a living nightmare before taking 1st dose of Opana ER. I'm still taking percs with it (doc ok'd). I still haven't had sleep for several days and wake up with body spasms ("jerks", restless leg). I am so tired and would love to sleep. How long did Fentynal take to work for you? Really hope you receive the peace, grace, and support here to help you through. I hope some of my comments give a little help. You'll find much more qualified and informative answers through the others. I would encourage you to read through the threads and see what you might be able to glean. It's a tough road isn't it? We need all the support we can or it's a real lonely road as well. I really, sincerely, hope you start stabilizing and finding increase in your quality of life. -Mike

Thank you so much for the info and support!

Kt, we have many fentenyl users on this forum and they will post tomorrow with their idea's, opinions, and suggestions. I used fentenyl years ago only for a few months so I'm no expert on that one but did know most all of them had to go to 48 hr dosing to get adequate relief!

Have you spoken to your Dr about any of this? I know tomorrow is preholiday but you may be able to get someone in the office and if your Drs out they may be getting messages to him. It's worth a try to not have to be sick Thanksgiving!!

I strongly suggest trying first thing in the morning!

Others will post here today so please check back later in the morning, some of these folks actually sleep!! Unlike the rest of us nightowls!! Lol

Ktk81,

Welcome to HW.Fentynal is pretty strong.Getting sick every 3 days would suck though.

I wish Doctors would be more open to what their patient's wants are.They have to exert their control.

I see a Physician's Assistant at my Pain Management.I don't know the Doctor.Don't want to know him.

I like the P.A. She's really nice.She's basically let me have what I've asked for.I haven't asked for much.

Fentynal made me sick.I can't take it.

Good luck and welcome aboard,
Rick

Vickie, (i hope i have the correct name for you), since we are becoming more connected. i have to say first off that i have never been so proud of the forum moderators and members coming out of the woodwork to offer you compassion, empathy, and moral support and i have never felt so proud to be in the presence of such golden heart-ed people. you have taken a huge step in right direction and the advice one of the moderators gave about giving the Opana ER a fair chance is 100% truth. it (ER formulation) needs apprx. 36-72hrs before the pain controlling effects become apparent, but, also has a smooth and long effect. the fact you have the oxycodone/APAP tabs is the right way and the reason i say that is now pain is the enemy not a symptom of feeling. you do not want it to rear it's ugly head. if you are consciously feeling pain it is perpetually creating a pathway in spinal cord and brain that is hard to delete but it can be done. i know what you mean by the info overload and not being your normal self as far as cognition and drive due to the biochemical condition you are or hopefully were. as you get back to 100% brain power, (by the way you are not a fault for that, i would say your chronic pain and w/o personally insulting you doctor their fault), then you can start with an unthinkable amount of tools to become happy and as pain-free as possible. i am going back to some points in your posts as i have taken notes and would like to arm you with ammunition. again, you are tough because in the condition you endured i could not even type my name. NICK PS before i get back and taking into account that the Opana ER needs a day or two do not hesitate if needed to use the Percocet as perscribed. they did have you remove the Butrans patch,,,right? keep in mind that some buprenorphine still in dermal layers prob still leeching into blood stream, this will dwindle and oxymorphone has power to bind hard to receptors so you may feel "odd", like dancing. lol NICK

ktk81, I hope your visit with doc was productive and you're feeling cared for and "your" best interests are what is important. Stay connected, when in pain and torment its been very therapeutic for me. I have appetite and am eating (it's wonderful). I'm starting to feel better slowly but surely on opana er and some percs. Lots of negatives in this process, I hope you and your husband will be able to find some time to reflect on good memories together with hope of better ones to come. Have a peace filled Thanksgiving.
-Mike