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Question about my Epidural for back pain

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Posted 12/9/2013 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
Hi, I am new to this forum.  I just went thru a epidural injection Friday.  It was such a "excruciating painful" thing and I have questions that I will pose to the doctor when they call me on Monday.  But I cannot figure out why this was so painful?  I had them done in 2010 and I was completly "out" for the whole thing.  This time around (new doctor) I was told I would be sedated, but even though they said they gave me sedation I was "screaming and crying" thru the whole procedure.  Now they tell me I have to have 2 more and I will not put myself thru this again! 

I will try and get the information from my previous procedures in 2010 to see what that doctor gave me and get the information of what exactly they gave me this time.  Has anyone ever had this problem?

My MRI shows 2 bulging discs, disc extrusion and it starts at my L2 thru my L5. 

 

Posted 12/9/2013 12:23 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Snovotny -

Welcome to the CP forum. I'm sorry your epidural was so painful.

First - if you put "epidural" in the search engine (upper right) - you should be able to read some good past information.

It's been a few years since I've had an epidural. Though I've had ones that hurt like heck, the majority of them were tolerable..... and had them w/out sedation.

I know I've had sedation (versed/fentanyl) w/ nerve blocks or facet injections - but not w/ getting an epidural. Sorry - my mind's fuzzy because I've had so many things.

I would do what you said - and talk to your doctor. What did your doctor say this time - when he saw how painful it was for you? Did he talk about making the additional ones more comfortable?

Hopefully someone will come along and offer some more helpful advice...... I mostly just wanted to welcome you!

--Tina
Posted 12/9/2013 12:47 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Blessedx8! I have been using the search engines and it has been helpful. The sad thing is I had my MRI done last Tuesday and results showed up on my Cleveland Clinic My charts Wednesday but they told me the doctor would discuss them with me before the procedure. So when I went for my procedure they "rushed" me and said well the doctor is ready to do your procedure if you want him to talk to you first you have to wait until he is done with all the procedures. So I did the procedure. Even though he heard me crying and yelling, he never once addressed me. When I was done I again asked the nurse when would the doctor come talk to me and was told not until he was done with everyone! I was in so much pain I just wanted to get the heck out of there and I left...... I truly felt like I was being "passed over" and not important at all. So sad.
Now on the "positive side" I do think the injection is helping. My pain has reduced which makes me more determined to make sure I have the other injections but not with this pain. I am such a wreck even thinking about going for one again! I should know more tomorrow after the "nurse" calls to do a "check" on the procedure tomorrow. (I hope) They have been very evasive in answering questions and I just don't understand that. I am also going to see if I can get an appointment with the doctor that did it in 2010, the reason I had a different doctor was just due to the fact that I took the "first" appointment I could get because the pain was so bad. I have been to the ER 3 times in the past month alone with the pain. It took 3 weeks to even get a doctor to "order" a MRI and that was because the ER doctor called my doctor and said we need to order a MRI..... It has been so hard working with a place that seems to treat you like a number. I am normally very active and this has been hard to deal with. I run (ironically enough) a horse thereapy program for the disabled.... This has been a lesson to me and helpful as to what some of my children go thru every day of their lives. I just need to get this fixed so I can take care of my animals and continue my program!

thank you again.
Posted 12/9/2013 6:16 AM (GMT 0)
Hi I had many epidurals , they put me out for them like a mild sleep med although my first i had no anesthesia, I was screaming, please request that you get the twilight med, no one should go through that trauma, everyone has the right.  Do you go to pain management, you know there is a law, that no one should be in pain.  I feel really about this.  You should be your own voice read up on the rights you have, doing that made me very knowledgable.  My pain manager who i have been seeing for 4 yrs, just recently they have been standoffish to me they make me take my meds to the appt so they can count them I was short once and almost got the book thrown at me.  I told him i was in such excruciating pain, i dislocated my knee and it felt like i go shot in the knee. I may change Dr.s i am petrified because i cant find my meds the pain makes the very forgetful, I dont know why i hide them, I tell him about the forgetfullness he says it from the pain also but no lieniency, they make you feel like a criminal.  Stay strong, and by the way the epidurals never worked for me God Bless
Posted 12/9/2013 1:08 PM (GMT 0)
thank you beatendown, the thing is when we set the appointment I was assured I would get the twilight, and when I went in, the nurse acted "funny" when I verified I would get the twilight, and then I was in the OR room and I again asked for it and she said ok they put the medicine in, and I asked them why am I still anxious and aware? and then the pain began, he started injecting the medicine and I was screaming and crying. I kept asking them to stop but the nurse just said squeeze my hand! It was horrible. The doctor never once said a word to me! It was horrible and I have lost trust in this doctor. I will find out today exactly what they gave me and also what I had in the past and see if I can go back to that doctor for the other 2 injections. Thing is, he never prepared me for the pain I would feel.
Posted 12/9/2013 5:02 PM (GMT 0)
Snovotny I do hope you can get in with the other dr. It would be very hard to trust a dr that treated his patients as you have been treated, that is just wrong. You hired him to work for you, he should answer your questions what he did is wrong. To completely ignore you is wrong. It sounds very much like he is more interested in doing procedures than taking care of his patients. They bill the insurance company a good deal of money for those injections because they are such a money maker for a dr..

Let us know when you can get in with the other dr. I would let him be the one to finish the injections. Take care.....Susie
Posted 12/9/2013 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
Well I just "sort of" got some answers from the doctor's office that did the injection. The nurse actually asked me if "I asked for sedation"? I said yes, in the Doctor's office, and in the hospital 3 times including in the OR in front of the doctor. She said well he did not give you any! (No kidding!!!!) He just gave me 2mg versit and 40mg of the injection (epidural) medicine. Which is scary because in the hospital in recovery the nurse there (and my husband confirmed this), said that the doctor gave me a "double" dose of epidural and it was 80 mg..... So I am nervous that the incorrect amount is on my chart. By the way it took 3 nurses to give me this info, the other 2 said they didn't think "they were allowed to give me the info". To which I said why would you "not" be able to tell a person what amount and name of medicine you put in their body?

Good news, I called the other doctor's office and she scheduled me for tomorrow at 3:30!!!! I will follow up with him for all my back care from now on....
Posted 12/11/2013 5:43 AM (GMT 0)
Wow!  I went to the original doctor that took care of me in 2011 and he spent around 40 minutes with me discussing everything, from medication to future options.  I cannot tell you how relieved I feel!  The first epidural shot given by (Dr. Cruel) (my new name for him)  is actually working and the pain down my leg is gone for now.  What a relief, after a month and a half of throbbing sciatic pain! 

I found out that the nurse who gave me the information from Dr. Cruel lied to me.  He had actually given me 2 doses of epidural in different areas, so I received 80 mg not 40 as she said.  Also, the new doctor confirmed I have 2 herniated discs, which Dr. Cruel told me my MRI did not show any herniations, just bulging discs, which confirms that he never looked at the MRI.

So on to more positive thoughts, my new doctor said to wait on scheduling a 2nd epidural until I really need it.  He also assured me that when he does do another epidural, he will make sure I do not feel it and that I am calm and "sleepy".  He said he did not understand why the 1st doctor did not give me anything especially since I asked for it.  He was very kind and I was more in control of what I wanted done to me. 

I learned a big lesson here, and that is to take more control of what the doctors are saying I should do.  I know my body and my limits, they dont. 

Just wanted to update and thank you for listening.

Sharon

Posted 12/11/2013 12:26 PM (GMT 0)
I've had 1 round of 3 different injections.They put me out for them.I.V. and Propopol(sp). The 1st one I had some soreness the 1st week after the shot.

I've got another round of 3 coming in January.

Hope your back starts bothering you less.
Rick
Posted 12/11/2013 1:54 PM (GMT 0)
Tidalmouse,

That is the way to go the IV, they were supposed to do it for mine, but failed to give me the medicine, which is why I changed doctors. I am happy to say this is working and I am going to try to go thru today without any pain medicine - just RX Motrin. Right now I am taking a total of 15 mg Vicodin and 300 mg of Neurotin daily. The doc wanted to up the Neurotin but I said no, because every morning when I wake up I feel as if someone is sitting on my chest. It clears up by mid day so I believe it is from the Neurotin. The doctor said no he didn't think it was from that, but that is the only new drug I have been given in the past 2 weeks besides the injection. We'll see what happens. I hope your injections are making you feel some relief! Take Care
Sharon
Posted 12/11/2013 4:13 PM (GMT 0)
Sharon,
Be careful about going from 300mg Neurontin to 0. I did not suffer from depression in any way shape or form before starting the Neurontin, but when we first tried to go "cold turkey" from it, I became very depressed for absolutely no reason shortly after I quit it -- it wasn't the same day or next day, but it was some time ago so I don't remember whether it was after a week or two weeks or three. We ended up doing a slow taper off of it, going down 100mg at a time, and then to 50, then 25, then off it. The drug gave me some benefit at the beginning, but the side effects were intolerable. I was super sleepy, felt like the air got "thicker" to breathe, and eventually developed suicidal thoughts after a year or so of being on it. At the time, the drug did not carry it's current black box warning & I was lucky to have a doctor that recognized it was due to Neurontin's effects from altering my brain chemistry. So glad to be off it. I'm on Lyrica now & I tolerate it much better. Only side effect for me is sleepiness.

Hope the epidurals continue to benefit you. I know they usually produce great results for me. And yeah, there is a lot of confusion when dealing with some nurses -- especially in an OR. The one probably saw the first dose of 40mg given & didn't realize that a second shot was given at another level. I know with my doctor, whether in his surgi-center or in the hospital, sometimes the charting isn't even completed until the end of the day (at which point they also have to reconcile pharmacy stock so that's the best time to get information from someone other than the doctor administering the meds), but I'm glad to hear you found a doctor that is a better match for your needs & that in spite of all the confusion, you at least got some benefit from the epidural you were given.

take care!
Posted 12/11/2013 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for the insight. I was just reducing not taking any vicodin, and leaving the neurotin alone. I want to rule out if the neurotin is what is giving me these symptoms (heaviness in chest in morning, dissipitates throughout the day) and just plain "down". The doctor said we could increase the neurotin but I am too afraid to and even though he does not think my symptoms are from the neurotin, I have a feeling they are. I know how I normally feel so I am trying to eliminate any medication other than that and then if it persists, talk to the doctor about it. You said Lyrica is tolerated better for you, in what way, if you don't mind me asking?

Sharon
Posted 12/11/2013 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Sharon, so glad to read that you got back with your dr. Having a good dr & having trust in them is half of the battle.

Keep us posted.

Susie
Posted 12/12/2013 2:04 AM (GMT 0)
I would like second Tirzah's comment about the Neurontin... I know everyone is different in how they react to drugs but I just went through about ten days of hell by doing exactly what she said - by going from 300mg once a day to zero, this after just six weeks of use.

I don't think my doctor believed my symptoms were from the Neurontin (generic Gabapentin in my case). Every two hours or so, my BP would go from 120/70 to 160/100 and stay there for 15-30 minutes. There were other side effects as well and I don't really need to dwell on the details - as I really just wanted to support the earlier post and say that 300mg of Neurontin for some people could be a large dose and the cause of your symptoms - since the drug has a short half life and the effects you feel could from the drug clearing your system every day.

Think about it this way: The drug alters your brain chemistry to ignore some of the neurons sending messages to the different parts of your body. It basically has your brain ignore some electrical signals which is why it is effective for nerve pain. When the drug clears, all those messages come flooding back in.
Posted 12/12/2013 2:08 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Litespped97,

I know now it is the neurotin, because (painfully enough) I went without any pain medicine yesterday and the only drug in me was the neurotin and again this morning I wake up and have heaviness in the chest and just don't feel "motivated" to do anything. I am usually such a "positive, energetic" person so this is so strange for me. I will talk to the doctor about weaning me off of this, I have only been on it since the 2nd so I have just had 10 doses so far, but I know my body, I sometimes react "opposite" of what the medicine is supposed to do. So I know to always always try a lower dose of something to begin with. Thank you again for your insight, it is truly appreciated.

Have a positive day!
Sharon
Posted 12/12/2013 5:05 PM (GMT 0)
Sharon so glad that you have narrowed it down to it being the Neurotin. I have tolerance issues with so many different meds. If they say it will make you drowsy it speeds me up, really weird. Let us know what the dr has to say.

Take care....Susie
Posted 12/12/2013 10:38 PM (GMT 0)
My only caveat to all of this is that many of these types of meds, especially the nerve pain ones, can take a month to six weeks for the side effects to lessen/go away.

When I was on Cymbalta years ago, it definitely took at least those 6 weeks for me to start feeling better. I also had to find the time of day to take it that suited me better.

So, with only having taken it 10 times, I hate to see someone quit a medication that could possibly help down the road. That is not much time to let it work itself out.

Now, when there are actual allergic reactions that can be life threatening, then obviously calling the Dr. and stopping immediately is appropriate.

I just recommend working with your Dr. and seeing what they think. The good news is that there are other medications to try:)

Keep us posted..
Posted 12/13/2013 6:10 AM (GMT 0)
Sharon I have just read your thread, I am sorry about what you went through, it actually sounds like to me that the doctor that gave you the injection, kind of screwed up, and also it sounds like maybe they realized that they screwed up, and that is why your other doctor got involve to try and smooth things over with you???? Obviously your original doctor, knows that things were not done right and you were lied to. I do hope that if you have to get any more of these injections, that they go smoothly for you! I know allot of people that get these injections prefer to have conscious sedation, and allot of people find these injections very painful. I guess I have had so many of them over the last fifteen years that, (and yes some of them were extremely painful to say the very least, especially when I would get them in the thoracic spine.) but I have never been offered sedation, nor requested it,   my PM does offer to give a relaxer before having the procedure, but I always decline it, they give me the normal small lidocaine injection to numb the area where they are going to put the epidural, and that is it. Some injections are easier than others, but also allot of it is who is giving the injections. I have found that some doctors are much better at it than others! Anyway  it is just my preference but I am a bit stubborn and fiercely independent, so usually don't have a driver with me when I get my injections and I don't take any thing, I just grin and bare it and get them done!.

It does anger me though to see how you were treated, there is just no excuse for doctors to be treating their patients like numbers! I am sure they would not want to be treated that way!

I wish you well!!

White Beard

P,S, Least I forget my manners, Welcome Sharon to Healing Well Chronic Pain Forum! I am sorry you have to be here but I am glad that you found us, and hopefully you will like it here and become an active member of our chronic pain family!

Posted 12/13/2013 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much! Yes I talked to the doctor and he said to "give it a little more time", the symptoms may "reduce" and since they are really not that bad, I think I will leave it as the low dosage (don't want to increase yet) and let it run its course for about 30-60 days. Good suggestion!

As for the way the doctor treated me, I am putting in a complaint with the om-budsman just because I would hate for anyone else to experience this. And yes I am so happy I have my other doctor - he knew the other one goofed, I saw his expression and he did try to smooth everyting over, even went as far to say why don't I "set and appointment" with that doctor and tell him how I feel. I told him I just cant justify "paying" this doctor for another visit to tell him he did not do his job properly. He said oh, I never thought of it that way, I guess I wouldn't either.... Long story short, I am feeling so much better from the injection, and I will go on from here being more "involved" in what they are going to do before they do it.

Thank you again, happy this forum is here and everyone is so nice, sorry that so many of us have chronic pain though.

Have a great day!
Sharon
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