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Posted 8/24/2008 9:31 PM (GMT 0)
Ok here we go again with the injections.

Sense I got the first steriod injection I have been worse off than before I got them.  That has been almost 2 weeks.  Then  on Wed I called the pain management doc office, was having alot of pain and they said come in and we will give you a laticone or something like that injection.  Cant remember whats it called been a really bad week and I am working on bout 3 hrs a sleep the last 2 days alone. 

Well anyway, I got that injection in my but.  It numbs you up and is supposed to help relax the mussles.  Frist day I got it seemed to help just in the local spot i got it.  Left side but cheek.  Sense that first day once again I have been in more pain sense I got that as well. I even had to call out of work today because last night was the worse night that I have had sense my accident. I didnt even go to sleep intil about 11 am this morn and only slept about an hour.  My left but cheek was so knotted last night and the pain was almost unbariable.  Then at one point I got up to go to the bathroom and I couldnt even feel my leg at all.  Not numb just couldnt feel my leg but felt the pain. Stood up and fell on my face.  Not to mention that my neck has been killing me as well.  I had the tingles like never before last night.  I couldnt even move to get up and go to the er last night. 

I am supposed to go and get the second steriod injection on wed next week and I must say I am a bit apprehensive about getting this injection based on my response to the others.  If the next one makes me worse like the first then I will be bed riddin or close to it.  But If I dont go and get it I just dont know how much longer I can stand this pain with no relief at all.

Pain meds are not working for me either.  I took 2 loritabs last night at 12 didnt even touch it...then took another 2 at 4am, I know didnt wait my 6 hours but god I was in so much pain.  That still didnt work.  I also had my sleeping pill with all that and NOT A THING!.  This is so frustrating.  I thought at least something would help to take the edge off and now nothing is even working.

Has anyone had this problem with the injections?  How do you decide if its worth the risk again to get another injection with bad results from everything?  confused   When do you say enough is enough and just manage it?  I feel like a pin cushion this last 2 weeks.

Thanks

Lara

Posted 8/24/2008 11:09 PM (GMT 0)
Might have been lidocaine?

Sometimes all they can give you is a numbing agent (like lidocaine). Lidocaine can help with muscle pain, but it's not long acting like steroids are. It usually only lasts for a day or two, if that. Maybe since your last injection was so recent they couldn't give you the stronger stuff.

The other possibility is that they gave you nothing at all (saline solution). My last PM was evil like that & did that to me on three different occasions because he wanted to see if I was making it up about getting relief from the injections. It's really mean, but I have run into other people who've had the same problem. The docs who do that don't usually do it twice in a row (amazingly enough there is a protocol for lying to patients), so it's probably still worth a try. If do you find out your doc is tricky like that, I say leave him. Who needs that kind of insanity on top of all their other problems?

Only you can say when "enough is enough". Probably whatever pain you can manage to live with is enough, but really that's up to you and your doctor. Either way, I would probably call your PM's office first thing Monday morning to talk about the meds. Maybe they can up them for you or something. Generally not such a good idea to be upping them on your own (both b/c of cya with the PM & b/c if something happened to you your PM wouldn't know how much was in your system).

feel better,
frances
Posted 8/24/2008 11:21 PM (GMT 0)
Lara,
The loss of feeling in your leg concerns me, along with so many of your other worsening symptoms. I've had a ton of injections and most didn't work, but also most didn't cause anything more than some soreness for a few days. I used to always put an ice pack around the injection site for short periods and that at times helped, but I didn't have all the problems you're experiencing.

It almost sounds like a nerve was injured, but I'm not a doc. Just guessing. I would be very reluctant to have another injection unless I found out this was normal and to me it's not. But again, I'm not a doc.

As far as saline solutions, actually I have heard they can be as effective as cortisone if it's for helping to release a trigger point. But as Frances said, only you can determine when "enough is enough", but if it was me I'd want to have an office visit with this doc and discuss the symptoms before another injection.

And as Frances said, you need to call your pm and try to get better pain management assistance even for the short term - but taking your meds in a way that's not prescribed (unless it's every 4-6 hrs., which is how mine are scripted) can get you into more trouble - the last thing you need right now!

Take care - and keep us posted.

PaLady
Posted 8/24/2008 11:25 PM (GMT 0)
Oh, Lara! I feel for you! I had no benefit from any of the injections I've had either. And I also had a PM like Frances had who gave me "test rounds" where he would inject some random amount of something and I was quizzed on how long the relief lasted and then would only get additional help if I got the answer right. Seriously. I didn't get ANY relief at all from them, though, so that was that.

Like Frances said, only you can truly decide when enough is enough, but I definitely don't think an ER trip is out of order for you. At the very least a phone call to your PM first thing Monday morning. And if they don't make some changes right quick, you may need to start shopping for a new doctor. I wish I could tell you that it isn't a long process, but I think many of us here could tell stories of going through many doctors before we found the one who helped us. I am still searching, to tell you the truth. But I at least have found a PCP who helps me by maintaining my prescriptions while I search for someone who can come up with a long term treatment plan. I don't say that to discourage you - rather to encourage you not to waste too much time on any doctor who isn't helping you. I think the hardest thing for us to remember is that we are their clients. They are supposed to be working for US, not the other way around!

Lara, is there someone who can attend your doctor's appointments with you? Even if it is your eldest daughter - you said she is 18? I have found out the hard way that being single is a serious disadvantage in the world of pain management and chronic health care. Many doctors simply do not listen well enough to a patient who is in pain. If you can have an advocate with you - someone who can objectify your pain, it can often really help improve your treatment.

Frances is right about taking the extra meds early. That might get you into trouble. I can completely understand wanting to - I've been told to by docs at the ER before, but you never want to do it w/o a docs orders. If you don't want to go to the ER, you might consider calling your doctor's emergency after hours line right now. Then you could ask the on call doc for permission to increase your dose or frequency or to call you in something to get you through to Monday morning. That way you could maybe get a little relief or at least maybe some sleep w/o having to worry about breaking the PM contract.

((((((Lara)))))))
Gentle hugs and lots of prayers for you, dear!
Ry
Posted 8/24/2008 11:49 PM (GMT 0)
Oh, I just watched this Intervention show on the "On Demand" Chanel go to A&E, episode 53
"ComCast." A ex-gymnast about 26 was made to be the family pariah
because she took pain meds. She'd kinda pass out, act peculiar, cry ...
All these her family attributed to addiction.
This girl had Rheumatoid Arthritis! That's when the joints are destroyed
for some reason. It's a terrible condition.
I was so mad at the girl's family. But, that's the way it is. Those of us
who have Chronic Pain are so often misunderstood. The doctors misunderstand,
our famililes misunderstand, society misunderstands. Terrible!
Chronic Pain can be ... just devastating.
ladyred, take care. All the rest of you great people.
Posted 8/25/2008 3:01 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks everyone.

I have an appointment on Wed with the pm doctor so I was just trying to hold out till them with the pain meds and hope that he will try and get  it sorted out then at the least try to do something different as what Im on isnt working.  I was told by the nurse when I called that he doesnt prescribe meds on the first visit so this will be my second.

I ususaly take my meds as prescribed just last night was so horrible and I was in so much pain that I took them sooner than I was supposed to.  My script says every 6 hrs.  I took the second dose at 4 hrs.

What I'm trying to figure out is if the injections are making me worse or is that because the kids are home now, that I'm doing so much more than I was before.  Therefor, I dont know if I am making it worse with doing to much either.  I am trying to sort that out as well.  Finding and knowing my limitions. 

Its like the pain has shifted sense the steriod injections.  I went from having more pain while sitting to getting the shots and being in so much pain, then that worn down a bit and then I went to being able to sit for longer periods of time to not being able to stand or walk for much more than 10 mins without feeling completly week legged and in exteem pain. And now my hips are really hurting all the time. 

Grrrr... It is frustrating as things keep shifting and I dont know if I'm doing anything wrong as well.  To date Im still getting sun shine pumped up my arse by all the docs.  Well this will work then nothing, give it 2 weeks and nothing and so on and forth. The numbness and tingling are a constant though.  What I'm also scared about is permanent nerve damage as I have had little or no relief from all the tingling and numbness.

I plan on getting some of this sorted out this week and if I dont get anywhere with my doctor then I will start looking again for a new doctor. Good point that the doctors work for us and not the other way around, sometimes you just forget that with all thats on your plate. If tonight ends up at all like last night I will being goin to the er I am just about to the end of what I can take right now and not getting any sleep for the last 3 months has really worn me down.  I just dont think I can take another night of not sleeping on top of everything else with a full schedule this week as well between doc appointments school and work.

Thanks again for all your support and help through this really ruff time.  You all have helped me so much.

Lara

 

Posted 8/25/2008 3:30 AM (GMT 0)
Lara,
I hope you make some progress with your doc - or even at the ER. At least you should be able to find some relief so you can sleep. Sleep deprivation causes so many problems, and my pain was undertreated for way over a year and I didn't realize just how exhausted I was until I finally got a vicodin to take at night. Now I take percocet instead (since my failed back surgery) but also at night take 5mg val. with that and my neurontin. So at least I sleep, although I feel groggy every morning. Ask you doc at least for something to help you sleep.

And tingling and numbness are more challenging to deal with than most people realize. That's what I've got in my feet; it's why I take the neurontin, which helps but doesn't take it away completely.

Take care,
PaLady
Posted 8/25/2008 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
oh Lara, I'm so sorry to hear you might be going to the ER soon. Things must be so super bad. shakehead

I really hope they take good care of you & that you can start to get some sleep and feel a little better. Plus they can run some tests so maybe something good will come of that. Might be good to have an EMG to check for nerve probs with your legs. If something's wrong you won't feel any pain during certain parts of the test. If everything's okay it's pretty darn painful, but at least they've ruled out major nerve damage. Mine was negative, but I remember someone else on this forum had one of those recently and tested positive. Pamela maybe? not sure.

If it's not major damage, maybe you have a pinched nerve. I fell over last night reaching for my meds & got a pinched nerve. Now my right leg is all red & hot & has that numb/tingly feeling. ARRGGHH. Because I can't walk right it's indirectly increasing my back pain. I'll have to call my osteopath tomorrow to get that taken care of.

Anyways, most important thing is to get the pain under control so you can have more energy for dealing with the leg problems. It's not uncommon to have your pain keep shifting. Pretty much everyone on here has that problem. My PM says treating pain patients is like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole -- you just have to keep up with all the shots & meds & PT & all or else the pain pops up somewhere else. Hopefully you'll get lucky & your new PM will be a really good one like mine. In the meantime, take care of yourself & try to make it through until Wednesday. turn

GB,
frances
Posted 8/25/2008 3:47 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks PAlady,

I just took my meds and sleeping pill so I hope it works tonight. Im also making me a CD Eva Cassidy she has an amazing voice is is so soothing and she just relaxes me so maybe you should listen to some of her stuff you can youtube her as well.

I was thinking a val. or something like it, would prob do me better at this point as I think I am having alot of anxiety right now as well with all that I am dealing with. I never was a pill taker and now seems all I want is pill lol.

Oh well just have to deal with what we do right! Hope you have a good night PAlady. How are things going with the car and news?
Posted 8/25/2008 3:59 AM (GMT 0)
Lara,
They're still waiting to hear about the part. But at least I have a rental, although it's an SUV that sucks gas! But i'm not paying for the rental cost so I guess I need to just bite my tongue.

You're right about all the pills. I always hated taking anything but now my kitchen counter is half filled with pill bottles. And the sad thing is that I (we?) usually know we'd be worse without them. I hate the thought I'lll likely need them for the rest of my life, since surgery failed, but as you said we just have to deal with it.

Anxiety does make pain worse, that's for sure. Do you have anything for anxiety? I can't remember. If so, that might help to take that. Maybe at least it would help you sleep.

I hope some of your pain subsides tonight, or that you find a way to get relief at the ER or via your doc tomorrow.

PaLady
Posted 8/25/2008 4:03 AM (GMT 0)

No I dont take anything for anxiety just sleeping pills and they make me feel like crap and they dont work anyway.  So I might ask for something just to get me over this hump.  I remember when I had my mri they gave me something to relax me and god wish I could take that home with me lol...I wouldnt have cared if my house burnt down, dont want to be that out of it but they did make me sleep as well.

Will see what the doc says. 

Lara

Posted 8/25/2008 4:05 AM (GMT 0)
By the was glad to here about you car that you didnt have to pay for the rental they can get very expensive.  One thing at a time right! :)

Posted 8/25/2008 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
Lara, im so sorry your in so much pain.

I have pain in my foot as a result of an accident w/ a lawnmower. When i was seeking a good doctor, I had a podiatrist who gave me a cortisone injection in my foot and my foot swelled up twice it's size and i was in so much more pain. For me, it was such horrific pain that i will NEVER get another one. It has since been offered to me by my current PM doc and my answer is always NO...

GL
Posted 8/26/2008 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Hello all and once again thanks so much for the imformation.

Ts,  My current diagnosis is that I have a herniated disc at c4/5 right side and the mri on the lower back showed some ostoarthritis at L4/5 and moderate facet arthropathy at L5/S1. Soft tissue damage and one of the many doctors I have seen these last few months said she saw a small hairline frature on my tail bone. If I dont get any improvement soon the doctor said that he will prob send me for another mri for the lower back. I did have the facet injections for my lower back.  I go back for 2nd injection on wed.

I did end up going to er today as I now have a mirgrane on top of all else...just hasnt been my week and I cleared my schedule for the rest of the week as well except for what i need to do so I can catch up on some sleep and just let my body get some rest.  Also went and bought myslef a low impact yaga ape to do at home with hopes that it helps.  Last few days have really taken a toll on me.  Still have freaking migrane even after I got injections in the ER. My body just doesnt seem to take to anything right now so very frustrating!

Shannon I hear you on the injections I am very wary of the next one as the first one made me worse.  I was talking with a friend of mine who is a head nurse of the rehab. ward of a major hospital in Philly.  She was telling me that if the next injection doesnt work then she would asvise me not to go for anymore.  Told me a few horror strories of patients of hers.

Lara

 

Posted 8/27/2008 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
The Injections helped me greatly, but I feel the need to point out that when I discussed the possibility of them with my doctor he pointed out that for some people, they actually don't end up helping. The Steriod injections decrease swelling to help take pressure off of your nerve roots. If the needle irritated the area more, and you never actually felt relief, then perhaps you're not suffering from inflamation, it's just a herniation. Steroids aren't going to fix that. Have they discussed the possibility of surgery yet? Just wondering.

Not a doctor, just have a similar diagnosis, and a 100% different result from a similar treatment. My doctor always said that surgery would only help the pain in my leg, and the worst of my pain is in my lower back. If your pain is mostly in your leg, I'd be curious as to why surgery isn't on the table yet.
Posted 8/27/2008 2:23 AM (GMT 0)

Clever,

The most of the pain is in my lower back and left but cheek down to my left hip.  I think surgery hasnt been mentioned yet because I have been shipped from doctor to doctor I started out in ER then was refered to orthopedic surgeon who said that I needed time to heal form car accident befor they can determine what the real injuries are( by the way left him because I was getting the run around and could never get in touch with him and because he treated me like a number and never really listen). I just started seeing the pain management doc about 2 weeks ago.

I have second appointment with him tomorrow.  I will be discussing several things with him tomorrow including what other options I have.  I am to have the second injection tomorrow, so I would assume that they would want to go done that line befor they talked about surgery.  I havent gotten that far yet.

Thanks for the info I will include it in with a whole long list that I have for the doctor tomorrow...Poor man have a page already!

Lara

Posted 8/27/2008 5:16 AM (GMT 0)

Hello TS, How are you tonight, I see that I am the only one that cant sleep, yet again sighs.. got one half way decent night last night and now nothing...pain has really been bothering me alot lately seems like its getting worse...grrr just dont know if its something I am doing or if its just getting worse.

I did have the facet injections...If I may ask what are rf's. And what is the difference between the 2?  I havent mentioned the headache yet because the last time I went to my PM he got a bit mad because I am seeing a Ortho and a pain management doc and the fact that I had to go to him...well lets just say he wasnt a happy camper..I am so sorry you have suffered with them for 3 yrs I get migaines anyways so I know how much they take out of you and that was just me with them every once in a while.

I didnt ask about the yoga tapes I really didnt even think about it, but I quess I should ask, I sure dont want to make anything worse.

I am just hoping I have a better result than last time with the injections.  I still fell like I am worse sense the first injection..but like I said I have added alot to my plate with the kids coming back as well these last 3 weeks...so that is something I plan to discuss with the doc tomorrow!

Thanks

Lara

Posted 8/28/2008 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Lara:

I just wondered how your appointment went today. Did you end up getting more injections? I hope you have some relief from whatever they did today!

Thinking of you and sending gentle hugs your way!
Ry
Posted 8/28/2008 1:52 AM (GMT 0)
Hello Ry,

Yes I did get another injection today but he did a differnt injection this one was an epidoral injection in a differnt place.  This one didnt hurt as much as the last one did but I am still in alot of pain right now.

I do have a question for anyone that might want to respond.  I was asking the doctor today about why the pain has been so bad and and seems worse sense the last injection and this was what he told me. 

He said that its like a wild fire and they only way to put out a wild fire is to break it up into to peaces and and put it out one section at a time.  He said that each time he does an injection that he is working on a certain spot and so to speak putting it out one section at a time until its completely out.

That the last time he worked on by ablitly to sit and this time he is working on the area that would inable me to stand. 

Ok I can see the logic in what he is saying but I also think its a load of crap in the same sense.  The reason I say this is 1. because altho I can sit for longer periods of time now when I stand my back feels like its broke and if I sit for to long then Im in so much pain I can hardly stand it. 2.  I still feel worse these last 2 weeks than before. 3. He told me that I have a significant amount or osto arthritis and it is in my facent joints in my lower back and that the car accident made it flare up.  Heres my problem with that 1.  I never had problems before that and it is that significant then whey didnt I have any what so ever problems before my accident, 2.  if its a flare up then why am I still in this much pain 3 months after the fact to me and grated I am new to all this, but I would think  flare up doesnt last 3 months and still going on. 

Asked about pain meds to be changed and he said that he wants, once again to wait and see how this shot works out for me and we would talk in 2 weeks.  Here are back to the 2 weeks things again. He gave me some topical numbing cream and a tens unit to take home with me altho I told him the the elctric stimulation hasnt been really doing much of anything for me.

So once again here I am at a lost and still scracting my head wondering what is going on and waiting 2 more weeks again.  Seems like these docs like 2 weeks and then try something else and 2 more weeks.  In pain 24/7 with the same old pain meds that arent working.

Any of you that would like to chime in with any help or advice, its much welcome, feel like most of you give me better advice than my doctors....

Lara

Posted 8/28/2008 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
((((Lara))))

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with the load of crap interpretation. I really do hope this injection will help you, but I think its absurd for him to say that you cannot get relief for the whole issue all at once. If that is really the case - that he is working on one part at a time - then WHY, why, why would he not want to give you better pain medication to manage the pain from the areas he hasn't yet attended to with the injections.

One thing you should keep in the back of your mind is that injections and other interventional medical procedures are BIG time money makers for physicians. Compared to only the consultation fees they get for managing a patient's care with prescriptions, doing procedures is a way to bring in the big bucks for a practice. I think that plays a much bigger part in the decision making process than one would hope.

I would advise you not to wait the full two weeks if you do not get relief from this injection pronto! If you do not feel better in the next few days (or if, heaven forbid, you feel worse again) I would be calling the office and insisting on an earlier appointment so that you can get an adjustment in your meds instead. Also, don't hesitate to visit the ER if necessary. I have finally come to the conclusion that I am the only one looking out for me in this. My PM is worrying about her bottom line. She forgets who I am as soon as I walk out of her office.

Take care of you! Try to rest tonight and seriously don't let things go too far if you start to feel worse. You have to sleep, Lara. If you get back to the point you were at after those last shots, go to the ER and get something to at least help you sleep until you can see the doc.

Ry
Posted 8/28/2008 2:27 AM (GMT 0)

Thank you Ry

It feels good to know that I am not the only one thinking that was a load of crap.  It just seemed like to easy of an answer and to generic for me as well..I just have trouble with the whole sighificant arthritis thing and I mean I have never had a problem with my back before. I wonder if all these doctors think that we are all stupid and just crawled out from under the pumpkin patch.

Plus I was really mad about the meds thing. I hate taking pills and relying on meds to manage my pain but at this point I dont really care what I have to do to get some relief.  His logic behind that was that this shot will get me back to where I was before when the loritabs were working.  I was like well they never have worked that well, I would take them and get about 2 hrs of just the edge off and would have to wait another 4 hrs to take more. Now I dont even get that.  What am I soposed to do in the mean time of this 2 weeks of lets wait and see. He also told me that the only thing he would be able to give me would be something to knock me out and that wouldnt be able to do anything for me to fuction.

As well, he didnt even answer my question about all the numbness and tingling or the dead leg I had the other night or the possiblity of permenit nerve damage.

I never thought about the money ascpect of it Ry, good point exp sense he is not taking any insurance on this and its all thrid party out of pocket through a promise to pay through my lawyer.  I will have a chat with my lawyer on that one tomorrow! I just assumed that I would get treated better as I wasnt using my medicade and would be treated like a person and not a number!  Good point, man you really learn alot when you go through something like this dont you!

(((((hugs Ry )))))

and thanks for making me aware of the money ascpect.

Lara

Posted 8/28/2008 4:56 AM (GMT 0)
Hello Ts and I hope tonight finds you well.

To tell you the truth no one has ever really explained anything to me in any detail except that I have herniated dics at c4 c5 and arthritis in my joints and facets at l5/l6 s1 and that this is what they plan to do today to help me out. 

I keep trying to get someone to give me more answers and get no where with anything except what the doc told me today when I got the injections and lets wait another 2 weeks.

When I did tell him about the pain I had last Sat and that Im still recovering from that and have basicly been on the couch still nothing just lets see where this shot leads.  In the mean time im not sleeping and thats with sleeping pills because the pain is so bad at night that pain meds and sleeping pills dont do much of anything but make me even more tired.

Im still trying to look on the net to see what info i can find about what the heck he is saying some is just general info while others is so tech. that I dont have a  clue...hence all my confusion with all this. He said that he was doing the epd. today because I am having so much leg weakness and leg pain and that was his plan of action today...

At this point I am just rready to make a app. with a neuro surgeon just to get a second op. and to get some of these things answered.  I realized its ONLY been 3 months but in the mean time if I dont get some sorta sleep soon I will crack not to mention some kinda pain man. intil a time that the injections work.

Maybe its as ry said and its a money thing, god I dont know anymore I cant really keep up with it all anymore.  I just feel lost with this whole thing.

Thanks again Ts

Lara

Posted 8/28/2008 5:19 AM (GMT 0)
Lara,
It's late and I'm not thinking very clearly, but I just keep going back to the fact I've had a lot of different injections and they didn't make things worse to the extent this one seems to have for you (the first injection). I mean, I could understand his explanation if you had some partial relief. But the dots don't seem to connect to me. Plus leaving you to fend for yourself with symptoms when you could at least be given something to help you sleep. I only wish these stories weren't so frequent. And that you didn't have to go through all this.

Maybe I'll come up with more to say on this one of these days, but tonight I'm pretty beat!

I do hope you get some relief - or another doctor!

PaLady
Posted 8/28/2008 7:07 AM (GMT 0)

Palady, I know seems so sad how many have to go through this just to get help..A good freind of mine said to me today that these doctors shouldnt be allowed to charge people if they didnt do anything to help them...made me think how many doctors would take things more seriously if that was the case and I wonder what the results would be then?  Just food for thought!

Lara

Posted 8/29/2008 2:37 AM (GMT 0)

Hello TS,

Today started out bad I didnt even go to sleep until about 8 this morn from the pain of the injections but I did expect that from the last one I got.  As the day war on I did feel a bit better than last time...stil in pain but no where near where it was last time.  Time we see if this shot makes any difference.

I would love for you to send my some sites that you  got some info from you can email me and I would be grateful.  I am the type of person that likes to be informed I deal much better with pragmatics. 

It is nice to know that someones understands what you are goin through and has been there and can offer up advice or at least understanding.  I hope today found you well and doing better.

Take care

Lara

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