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Jim M Posts About Opiod Problems & DEA

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Chronic Pain
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Posted 12/18/2008 9:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Jim,
I hope your neck and shoulder are feeling better now. Rest it.
I am quoting from your post and I wonder if you could say more
on this subject.
Pamela
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jim M. Writes:"My mind keeps racing about the constant Dr. fight.
Think it's bad now? With the DEA on the war path,
I can't imagine what 's going to be like getting pain meds
in the next few years as laws are passed, and regulations are tightened."
Posted 12/20/2008 7:10 AM (GMT 0)
Im new and do not know your original post, but I am on opiods also and couldnt manage without them although one does not like to need these types of meds.  They cause incredible constipation with me but that is only bad thing.  Feel better soon. sue2z :-) :-)
Posted 12/21/2008 4:12 AM (GMT 0)
I'm in pain right now and have to leave and lie down.
Dam!
Jim, there are way too many of us who are denied a pain-free life
because of the DEA.
People, in general, do have the wrong idea about those who take Opiods.
One letter to an official is worth one thousand phone calls (or something like that)
In 2009, I will start sending out a letter a week.
Somehow I don't think E-Mail is as effective because there's SO MUCH
of it in offical mailboxes.
I'm gonna have a paper envelope, hand writing (so it's not too long) and a stamp.
First on the list is my CA congresswoman.
PaLady, I think that's where you said to start. (You seem to know that stuff)
Pamela
Actually I will start my letter-writing campaign in February. (After the inauguration)
Posted 12/22/2008 2:33 AM (GMT 0)
Hello I've been away for some time but am back to say hello

Wow, I agree with what you say. This is horrible what the "suits" in Washington do to us. The darn war on drugs has very little to do with drugs and a lot to do with jailing citizens. Hell, drugs were sold by "Sears-Roebuck" for years including Heroin. It was racist policy that scared the public into accepting the laws.

We cannot prohibit a drug without making the organized crime folks rich and blood soaking our streets. Blood of rival gangs, blood of police and the blood of 90 year old people caught in an illegal search.

When will it end? how many more must die to support this falied policy?

The blood remains on the hands of Washingtonians who do not have the courage to face the voters and say "This war on drugs is an utter disgrace"

Tax it and distribute it in a sane fashion. Make people sign for it but stop putting pain patients in jail. End the bloodshed.

Theswan
Posted 12/22/2008 3:37 AM (GMT 0)
Wow. While I agree there are numerous - and complex - problems with the legal, medical and political systems, I find some of the descriptions harsh and one-sided.

Doesn't seem much point for me to detail my thoughts on this thread. I really don't feel up for it, especially right now.

PaLady
Posted 12/22/2008 6:30 AM (GMT 0)
Hi all....

This is way too detailed a topic for this late at night but I did want to add a couple of things...My opinion only!

YES, we do have a reason to keep our eyes and ears open. There are good medications for pain relief and no reason not to prescribe them to those who have chronic pain. But why consider people guilty even before their first prescription is written for them??!!?? In some people's eyes, we are guilty before there is a crime.

BUT, not all doctors are like that. Mine is so compassionate and works with me, suggestions and all. In the years I've been taking pain meds he's never once asked me to sign anything, tested for drugs nor had a pill count...never! There are wonderful doctors out there.

And, yes!! I am worried about the political power coming at us. I find it amazing how they can 'know what we need and how we feel' but have never once lived in our shoes. They listen to media hype and seem to forget the facts! that people who take narcotic pain medication...AS prescribed... only suffer an addiction rate of less than 1/2 of a percent. That's less than the addiction rate of congress itself! (just a guess here, but IMHO alcohol can be an addiction) Less than half a percent is a tiny number to be shutting down medications to those who need it. Why is literacy so hard for DC to handle???

Chutzie
(stepping down from soap box...lol)
Posted 12/22/2008 7:39 AM (GMT 0)
Hi theswan aka Billy Pilgrim,

You write
"It was racist policy that scared the public into accepting the laws."
I don't understand this. Could you explain?

Let's see:
If a drug is prohibited say Heroin. The organzied criminals will be able to set
their own price. They will sell it to those who can afford it. The police go out
to close down the organized crime and get shot. The gangs that sell the drugs
fight each other and bloodshed from police and gangs river in our streets.
The old people who have no power, like those in nursing homes do not have access
to any kind of opiods and die in terrible pain and scream and cry in their rooms.
Often their prescribed medication does not make it to their medicine cup. The
nursing assistants don't make enough money to buy food for their families. Could
this sometimes be an extra source of income?

In California patients can legally buy an herb (I had a license) It's fine. You carry
a card kinda like your driver's license. The problem is the federal government.
It is illegal at the federal level. I had to sign up. But the places where herbs
are sold are closed down so quick. Terrible.

Pamela (Trying to clarify this to myself) Please chime in if I don't see it clearly.
Posted 12/22/2008 11:05 AM (GMT 0)
I'm like PA in these thoughts, not even going to voice my opinion here. There is so much wrong with the medical, legal and political system but your statements are not making much sense either. And I'm really not in the mood to hash this one out.
Posted 12/22/2008 2:21 PM (GMT 0)
Scarred,
You write,

"I'm like PA in these thoughts, not even going to voice my opinion here.
There is so much wrong with the medical, legal and political system but
your statements are not making much sense either"

That's what I was afraid of. I figured I wouldn't make much sense. Again I ask,
please chime in if I don't see it clearly.

Pamela
Posted 12/22/2008 5:27 PM (GMT 0)
I'll explain the racist aspect as best as I can

The Southwestren states had a dislike of the Mexicans who crossed the boarder and thought that Cannibis was the culprit in their bad behaviors (in fact it could be more likely blamed on good ole "hootch") They did not like them hanging out in their towns. Why not make a law against cannibis? Well they did make a law and then Southern states wanted to ban Cocaine as they "knew" it was the drug of choice of the Jazz-clubs and the people of color and after all it did make them yearn for the white women. (This is not my opinion see the History channel "drugs in America episode)

Now the states had a federal weapon against people and behaviors-not really on drugs per se. As we well know this expanded to alcohol in the twenties. The "joe six-pack" of that era would not stand for their drug of choice-alcohol being illegal so they took to the "speakeasys" and bathtub Gin of the day. Can ya sorta see the connection? People died from this "hootch" from lead poisoining along with other additives. Kinda like the "hotshots" the poor junkies took in the 80's one never knew what one was getting from a drug dealer.But hey! there only the scum of the nation who cares? (I do as a Christian)

Lastly, Cocaine was the drug of the wealthy in the 80's so a lot of White people indulged-correct? Yes it was at the time. A new variation of the same drug simply add baking powder and cook! Viola! Crack!
Now the country was outraged because the poor got into this "cheap" cocaine with a vengance. What to do? How about jailing for a lesser amount then say it's counter cocaine. So what happened? The jail time was aincreased for even a lesser amount of the SAME drug if it was "cooked". So the rich white folks get less jail or in most case's with good lawers-none at all. This is racist lawmaking at it's worse. They "target" the poor who happen to be mostly of color. Souns racist to me.

I'm sorry I am not able to give all the stats etc to bolster my case. It was not my intention to defend my opinion. Hell, even William F. Buckly sided with legalization-A brilliant right winger! Fact is he is smart enough to see through the hype about the drug war (people war)


Yes drugs wreck havoc in people's lives and the lives of those that love them. I see it first hand. I am in recovery but you will be suprised how many people who have been in the throes of addiction say that the war on drugs is a crock.

Hey what have we got to lose? The way it is does not work. I say make it legal but control it. Make the dose standard and keep the profits in the federal coffer or state coffer if that is a issue.

open your minds to a new thought

Glen
Posted 12/22/2008 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
Glen,

I must say you are one of the first people I have ran into that actually took the time to learn the history of the drug war. Major kudos to you.

Basically all it comes down to is fear mongering. Making people afraid of something they don't understand nor have the experience to accept it. I can honestly see the pain meds that keep me alive (or at least sane) becoming nearly impossible to get and that scares the daylight out of me. The many is allowing the few to control its policies because people are afraid and are either unable to be educated or unwilling to learn.

It is like chicken little and the falling sky.
Posted 12/22/2008 7:53 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the 'Kudos" I have researched a lot more then just watching TV but I did not write a paper on it.

That is not a bad idea and maybe I will if and when I return to school.

Drugs like fire can be both good and bad. People however do not become addicts just because a substance is ilegal. Look at alcoholics. They make up about 8% of the country even though it is a legal drug. Drug addictics also make up less then 7% of the people yet they will use drugs legal or not. Please explain why we lock up the latter rather then the forner? Is it not just because it is deemed ilegal? No? what is your argument? is it that alcohol is also a beverage? Hmm-mm that seem's quite thin to me.

What of nicotine? What is the cost of that adddiction. Think for a moment. Do we lock up smokers because of the furure health issues they will cause. That cost is in the Billions! Lung cancer and other disease's that harm all involved including their children? Come on this is a no brainer. Most peole have a moral argument over drugs and I have no complaint about that but and it is a big BUT-Stay out of my business! Keep away from drugs as by YOUR choice-don't make it your business to tell me what I choose-good or bad.

I refrain from alcohol and drugs because I choose that path. However if I find that smoking grass will take me out of my pain-stay away from my choice. As long as I do not harm you by my choice why do you care what o in my own home? Please give me a reason why you do not want me to have freedom?

Drugs are bad! yes we know but so is ALL drugs and saturated fat and overeating and smoking and whatever.

Search your soul and tell me the goverment has the right to enter my apartment in black ski masks with automatic weapons, toss me on my floor, bind my hands and do a "perp" walk for simply taking too much pain medication? If I doctor shop or worse and buy from that old lady on Social security to suplant my opiate supply should I spend years in prison? Is that really justice?

Look up Richard Paey-"Prisoner of pain" It can happen to you!

Glen
Posted 12/23/2008 4:09 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Jim

I know how you feel. Peole are still going to be supportive of the drug war (on people). Sad fact is there are horror stories about addiction-As I've stated, I've lived them! They simply cannot grasp the concept of "free drugs" Yes there may be a slight rise in those addicted as people may want to "test the waters".

But remember, this is still their free will just like they can choose to drink Etc. Maybe the approach should be softer like limiting jail time or sending sick people to detox and rehabs. I know, i know there are "drug courts" today and that is a step in the right direction but not nearly enough. We must decriminalize the use of drugs. It is and will remain simply a public health issue-not a law enforcement issue.

I don't know for sure what the answer is but we must end they way we do business. Too many sick people are in jails. I don't want to believe this but maybe it is a money issue? I may be wrong but I heard there are "prisons for profit"? Non-public prisons that state's use to inprison people? Wow this blows me away as once you add profit it all becomes clear-Maybe WE want to put people behind bars. I know the county I lived in had three state prisons and got Federal aid based on population which included the prisoners (Hmmm-mm) Gets one to think?

Maybe that is too sinister to complicate but imagine if ?...

Anyway we will not solve this issue here in this forum but I hope it opens some eyes to the possibilities.

Glen
Posted 12/23/2008 8:26 AM (GMT 0)
the swan, Billy Pilgrim, Glen ~
By far the most interesting post of 2008.
I'm in a lot of pain now. It may be Xmas stress.
That will be over soon.
I've printed out this link so I can better understand.
Learning never came easy to me. This is so far reaching.

Thank you so much for helping me to understand.

Pamela

I had a booth at an art fair right next to Kurt's aunt (Couldn't have been his
grandmother? Could it? It was about 15 years ago.
I've never read Slaughter House ... maybe it's time.
Posted 12/23/2008 8:54 AM (GMT 0)
I'm about to return to the fetal position, Jim.
It's back, shoulder, neck ~
I came back on to try to print this thread out.
It didn't work.
I'll try tomorrow.
May visions of Sugar Plums dance in your head. (Not really sugar plums. I jest.)
Pamela

My husband said it's easier for women to deal with pain doctors. "Women are more
passive. Women can flirt!" Heed: When dealing with your pain doctor, YOU GOTTA
BE NICE. He's got your history. It will follow you through all eternity. Take care
Take care.

Post Edited (Pamela Neckpain) : 12/23/2008 1:59:01 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/23/2008 9:11 AM (GMT 0)
I think that Pamala Neckpain has the right idea.As baby-boomers age and there is more and more serious pain that the medical system has to deal with,laws for the legitimate pain patient have to change.I am a baby-boomer and we represent a huge voting block.Writing to politicians about your concerns that people are being under medicated and your personal health or family member is suffering needlessly is the kind of letters that politicians need to have in order to ever get support for drug law reform. It's an uphill battle but the longest journey starts with a single step.Write to the law makers folks and pray for the best.
Posted 12/23/2008 2:02 PM (GMT 0)
Hound Dog, a lot of people are facing troubles..... I'm 31 & if I had not recently been married, no one would touch me after losing my job. The one bite I had was Aetna, $650 a month and no back claims for a year. I had to choose when to get meds filled, cut my oxycontin in half because it was close to $600 alone.. But, aside from my story I have one even more tragic. A very close friend of mine kept complaining about a lump on her shoulder, we were both bartenders at the time & she did not have insurance. I used to get cysts on my feet alot from that type of work & I told her she needed to see a dr.... The lump began to spread.... having cancer in my family (everyone has died of cancer in my family) I told her go to the ER & eff the bill..... a few months later she was pregnant. The state we lived in at the time provided low income families with healthcare for her & the baby.... she never had a chance. Within the 3 months it was stage 4 breast cancer. She had to abort the baby due to the cancer- & deal with all the people screaming at her infront of the clinic, but she never even made it to all her chemo. She died within 6 months..... and she had only turned 26 two weeks before she passed. Why are we letting this happen? Healthcare should not be available to those priviliged who can afford it. No one should be in fear of their credit or unable to pay a bill when they so desperatly need the help. This is America..... I don't care if you are 5 or 105, you should be able to get medical help. This topic is so near to me, as I lost a good friend way too early..... & myself who lost my job to overseas & eventually lost my insurance! When on earth is enough going to be enough? It just shouldn't happen here.
Posted 12/23/2008 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sooooo glad you brought up his topic. I have a friend who is also in chronic pain and we have decided that all lawmakers should be forced to put gravel in there socks and wear a-shirt with tennis balls sewn all over so they couldn't get a good nights sleep. Let them live like that for a few days with nothing but a bottle of advil. Then they would almost be qualifed to regulate pain meds.

My Luv to all who suffer

jennifer
Posted 12/23/2008 7:02 PM (GMT 0)
My 2 cents worth ignore if you like. The war on drugs is a two sided sword.

 

One thing thats being overlooked here is; the FDA, DEA & the bubbas in Washington are in bed together on this war. Too much money would be lost, to shut down the drug problem totally. The FDA is not about to stop lining the pockets of the bubbas in Washington, so give them enough money to line their pockets and they look out & make promises to the FDA, some will be fulfilled & some won't, same with the DEA. Then the bubbas also have to look like they will cooperate with DEA on this war. It boils down to one thing they all talk out of both sides of their mouth. Money motivates these people.There will be plenty of medications available 5 yrs from now, because the FDA will not stop the pharma. from mfg drugs too much money to be lost and research money. What will happen is finding a dr who will be willing to prescribe these drugs.  There will be a shortage of pain medicine drs you can count on that. We will have an overage of drugs at that time and you will not be reading anywhere about a shortage of any drug.  

 

I understand more & more why pain mgt drs are getting out of the business. They have to evaulate and make a decision on each & every patient that walks in the door as to what medication this person may need. If it opioids, then he best have his medical evaluation and records up to snuff to warrant prescribing said drugs. He/her really do not know if some these people coming in the door for the first time, if they are real or drug seekers wanting the meds for other than their own needs. The UA also tells if a patient is taking their medication or not, or it will tell if they are over-medicating themselves. The Contracts & UA's done by these guys are what his malpractice insurance company requires him to do. Its a CYA thing and I do not blame the drs for putting these items in effect for their office. If a person is a true & honest CP patient, then he/she should never be offended by having to sign or give a urine test. I took 2 UA's in 4 yrs, it was after my pump was implanted. Familys lose loved ones to overdosing on drugs every day. Many of these family members want to sue the dr that prescribed the medication, by having a Contract in effect on that patient, that is the drs proof the patient was given warnings about their medications and potential of problems stemming from taking the medications. Also the patient's family may not even be aware the family member could have had a problem with drugs. But the bottom line is the family is quick to want to hang the dr from the highest tree. I am also thinking the DEA requires this of drs too. Yep, I can see why we have so many problems. I don't have a clue as to what it would take to make things better either. Then the DEA is forever a monkey on that drs shoulders just waiting like a vulture.

 

Anyway just something to throw out & read.

 

Susie

Posted 12/23/2008 7:57 PM (GMT 0)
Susie - I'm glad you began to expand the complexity of this issue. And there are many complexities. I just don't have the energy to get in the middle of all this here.

And lack of health insurance....having all the medications in the world available and all the doctors in the world willing to prescribe won't do any good if you can't pay for it.

PaLady
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