HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Have to find a PM doc without insurance!

Support Forums
>
Chronic Pain
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/16/2009 3:57 AM (GMT 0)
Hi, family & friends,
I've often mentioned here how my neurosurgeon's office has continued to prescribe my percocet even though it's been 2 years since the surgery. They have been great, and mailed me the scripts. They also knew I lost my insurance.

Well, I got in the mail today two scripts for percocet; one dated for today, and another for November. AND with it a note that since it's been so long since my surgery I really needed to find a PM clinic to continue prescribing the percocet.

None of my doctors in the area will do it. I've never had to find a PM before, but no one is going to see me without insurance.

Right now I'm not looking for solutions because really, unless I can private pay (yea, right, I'm trying to pay for food and heat!) no doctor will see me. Plus I couldn't afford any testing or procedures they might want to try. I've kind of known this might come, but it's such a bummer to be hit with it now.

I've been applying for this low income insurance, since I'm not eligible for Medicaid here in PA. The insurance I've tried to get is a conversion policy from BC/BS, and at least they will waive the pre-existing condition ban because I've had insurance with them up until my COBRA ran out. But I strongly suspect they're trying to find a way to deny me. I've mentioned in other posts how I've had to send them the same form for the third time, and again yesterday got a message that they needed a more recent form. What they're questioning is my unemployment compensation form, and I sent them the most recent extension form 3 times. They keep looking at the wrong date; they look at the date unemployment started, and not the date in the upper right hand corner which is the date mailed 8/09. This is a program within the state of PA and this can't be the first time they have looked at a PA unemployment compensation form! I think they may want to deny me because of the pre-existing conditions. Even if i do get this insurance, it only covers FOUR doctor visits a year, and $1,000 worth of testing. So there's no way if a new PM wants to do a bunch of testing that I can afford it. And there's only one PM in the area that even prescribes meds; all the rest do the high tech procedures.

I'm just scared. So many things in my life falling apart and here's one more. People who are working and living normal lives don't know what it feels like to keep getting kicked when you're already sprawled on the ground.

Need TLC!

PaLady cry

Post Edited (PAlady) : 10/15/2009 10:36:25 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2009 5:38 AM (GMT 0)
PaLady, I SO know how you feel and I'm sorry you are having to go through this! I don't have any great words of wisdom, but I can tell you that I will send some positive vibes your way  :-)  . Our situations may be a bit different, but they are also very similar. You will find the answer - I know you will (or it will find you). Just keep taking it one day at a time (ok, sometimes one hour at a time!). I know my post probably won't cheer you up too much, but I hope it helps a little to know that someone cares.
Posted 10/16/2009 5:51 AM (GMT 0)
PALady

You need much more than just TLC! I worry about you!  What about your SSD application have you applied for that yet? I know how hard it is to accept that but that would help you in so many ways! Your condition really frightens me, can you even get by without your pain meds? I am not talking withdrawal or anything I am talking about your pain. Can you manage with your pain not being treated? I know for fact I can not!  I know that when I miss a dose I get rebound pain and it is bad, bad, but even on my pain meds, I do have times when I am still miserable and even the perocet for break through just barely handles it! We need to get you a plan! Yes I said "WE" you are not in this alone PALady so  please do not try and shut us out on this,  we have all shared to much with you and you with us,  "we" have to find a way to get this resolved.  So what can "WE", no let me rephrase that!  What can  I do to help   you with this situation?  I do not mean to be pushy, or anything like that, but I care about you, and I am more than just a bit worried about your situation! Your situation is  rapidly getting to the  critical stage, so let's all put our heads together and find a solution for you!

I give you all my TLC but you need so much more than that!

Hugs{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{PALady}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

White Beard

Posted 10/16/2009 6:00 AM (GMT 0)

PALady,

My heart goes out to you.....I was in the same situation as you 5 yrs ago when I stopped working, my current PMD actually saw me without Insurance and gave me a Discount on all my visits until I became eligible for Medicare.  During that time, I needed to have Xray's, PT and even a few MRI's and because I was paying cash they all gave discounts...it still was a fortune but I made sure to ask about a Discount and each time the answer was yes!!

Hopefully, you will find someone that will too!

((((((((((((((((((PALADY))))))))))))))))))

XXOO
Patti

Posted 10/16/2009 8:10 AM (GMT 0)

Well shoot, I am at the moment at a loss on a way to resolve any of this. Yep, you are so right, your surgeon really went out on a limb rxing you meds for 2 yrs-would have never happened in my state. Once they do surgery here they allow 6 weeks of meds if you are lucky and nothing after that no exceptions. Many have resorted to 10 days worth and thats it. Thats why I was so surprised at your guy continuing for so long.

I am wondering with you about this company dinking you around over the unemployment form. Sure they have seen those forms before. I always found when an ins comp kept saying they needed this that chicken fat and it was always provided, that was the stall tactic used before actually being denied.

Do you have a PCP that might provide with you with the pain meds? Maybe even if your PCP did not want to rx percocet-at least try you on something different-may work you have been on the percocet for awhile. I am surprised its still pretty effective for you, lucky there.

I know I could not see a PM dr if I did not have ins-they are too proud of their work as far as I am concerned. They hit too hard in the pocketbook.

Just keep knocking on doors one will open-we always seem to manage to pull thru in the end just when we think we can't. Hugs.

Posted 10/16/2009 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
Awe PALady,
You've been through so much, Keep nagging BC/BS about that insurance policy, even if you have to call them everyday...
Do they have an office you can go to and hand carry the forms to them and if they still need forms write to the Better Business B. (BBB))
and file a complaint with the BBB against BC/BS...but don't just give up...
a pcp might be able to help you with meds till you can find a PM doc...
will keep you in my thoughts and prayers, lots of soft hugz
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((PALady)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Posted 10/16/2009 3:02 PM (GMT 0)
PALADY I just want to fly to PA and give you a huge hug!!!  I know we all will find a solution for you.  Always remember I am here for you emotionally and finacially if you need.  Please take that to heart!

You have been thrown so many curve balls and you still continue to supply everyone on here with your direct but loving support.

You know what lets look on ebay for vampire blood!!  Supposely it makes you immune to ailments!!!!

Laurie

You know new people might think we are also insane..lol

Posted 10/16/2009 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
 

   Dear PALday,

 

     Good morning *warm huggs* How are you feeling this morning?? I hope you were able to get atleast a little rest thou, I fear, you probably didnt. *huggs*

 

     I am so sorry  your are getting hit with this just before winter. Their timing is horrible! *huggs* I wish I knew more about insurace, but most of what I have learned is from you guys here.  I just dont understand why, after months of paper work, you are still getting the run around! I hope you can get on atleast some sort of insurace before the scripts run out, I cannot imagine the turmoil you must be enduring right now!!!

 

     BCBS has been a source of major stress in our household and to my doctors ever since we signed up with them. It seems, the only way to get things done, is to call "heaquarters" and get "supervisors"... other wise all we get is stalled and "run around". I have yet to have a local branch be able to solve any issues or state answers on anything!!! The local guys literally say the same thing over and over again. Yet you know you are tlaking to a new person, it is like they are all reading from a "script" of some sort!!!

 

     Gosh, I wish there were some way I could help!! I am so sorry you got hit with this. It is just awful! If there is anyway I could help, please let me know.

 

*warm huggs*

    dani

Posted 10/16/2009 4:44 PM (GMT 0)
It's hard for me to write through the tears right now. I can't thank each of you enough. I don't know what I would do without all of you. I'd never make it through this, but somehow I will.

Susie, you know I truly beieve they are trying to find a way to deny me. I've been with BC/BS forever, so they have all my medical history, and have to know of my latest precancerous condition. And that will cost them money with the surveillance endoscopies, because this policy does cover those (I checked) as well as the accompanying biopsies. That's what I need more than anything. There's no Rx coverage with them so they're not going to pay for scripts anyway. Thing is, $$ is not the issue right at the moment with my meds. I JUST got everything settled with that - or so I thought, so that I was receiving just about every med at no cost from the pharmaceutical company, but I had to pay for the percocet - but only $22 at WalMart. That was doable. But I need a doctor to script it.

You know - you do all know what I'm about to say - this is more than anything about the lack of pain management care from doctors. My PCP refuses to script pain meds. And she won't even give me a discount for an office visit! The person who SHOULD be willing to take this over - the neurologist I've seen for 25 years (or at least someone in their practice for that long) - took over the neurontin because that had to be mailed to a physician's office, but made sure to tell me he would NOT take over the percocet or any chronic pain management. Pathetic. Pathetic. Pathetic.

Sorry, gang, I'm between tears and a rant.

I have one option. There's a doctor my cousin knows in Pittsburgh who was going to help me out. And I was planning to switch over to him earlier this summer, and then he had an accident and was injured and out of the office. I will call and see if he's back practicing yet, and how much. He's a solo practitioner so it's only him.

But I'm trying to tell myself that I won't die from lack of the percocet. Sometimes I think we all get so scared that makes it worse. And I'm scared, too, but I'm getting every other medication, and if I have to take extra strength tylenol and be in pain I guess that's what I'll have to do. I am more concerned about this insurance issue and endoscopies. That's life threatening. And my cousin will pay the premiums - which are only $135/month, a lot cheaper than the COBRA was, until I get to Medicare or am eligible for Medicaid. But Medicaid is making it impossible, too, but that's another story. All these programs to help low income people but there's so many hoops - and I believe it's deliberate. So many people would have quit by now and that's exactly what they want.

I had another message from BC/BS this morning - saying the same thing, so I have to call them back yet again. There is literally nothing more for me to send them! I have sent every form unemployment - which has now run out anyway - has sent me. They have my tax returns. And god knows what else. While I'm reluctant to tick them off, if they still give me more grief today I think I'm going to try calling the state insurance commissioner and/or some state representatives offices. This is just WRONG.

Ok, thanks for letting me rant. And I'll try to respond to each one of you but I just need to spill things out as they come at the moment. I know you all understand and believe me when I say I love you for it!

And about that vampire blood....best idea yet. If only I knew a vampire or could become one.....ahhhhh, the things one could do!

Hugs, Hugs, Hugs,

PaLady

Post Edited (PAlady) : 10/16/2009 11:07:14 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2009 5:09 PM (GMT 0)

Well, if I were you just the fact the PCP will not give you a discount as a cash paying patient is reason enough to look elsewhere. How lowdown can a dr get, or greedy. That cow is after the almighty dollar, she would not get any of mine. More and more drs are now offering discounts to cash paying patients because so many no longer have insurance, what a pig. Yes, we know many will not rx pain meds but its always worth asking.

By no means am I saying I told you so, but I do wish you would have filed for SSD back when we first talked about it. That was gosh well over a yr ago. I know you had some reasons you did not want to divulge but that would have kept you from possibly being where you are now with no ins. If you plan to file I urge you to do so immediately. The paperwork is not all that taxing, simple questions. You will need your surgeon to back you on this, now that he has stepped aside on rxing pain meds I would want him to remember who I am.

I know you will pull through this but its just so frustrating. I am w/BCBS thru husband's work as my secondary and they have been nothing but a pain in the arse since day one. They have complete idiots and morons that work for them.  

Keep your chin up.

Posted 10/16/2009 5:17 PM (GMT 0)
Susie,
I asked Chutz to send you an e-mail. Hopefully she'll forward it. Re:SSD issues.

I really couldn't have filed a year ago. I don't believe my surgeon would have been willing at that point to say I was completely disabled. We were all waiting and hoping. But now I do believe things are different all around.

There is just no good reason for BC/BS to do this BS (maybe that's why those letters are part of their name?). Actually, they've been a relatively decent insurance company for me over the years, but that may be because they mostly have the market cornered on insurance in this half of the state, so most doctors and hospital don't blink if you've got the "blues". They raise their eyebrows at other insurance companies.

Ok, back to the phone.

Hugs,

PaLady
Posted 10/16/2009 5:33 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, I never had problems with them except they just made stupid mistakes which resulted in lots of phones to them. BCBS is owned by Medicare thats why they have the corner market.
Posted 10/16/2009 7:59 PM (GMT 0)
I really don't think they're owned by Medicare, as Medicare is federal gov't I know BC/BS is private non-proft as I've been one of their providers for years. In all fairness to the Blues, way before there was any Medicare they were the insurance company that did kind of serve to cover everyone, especially those others didn't want. They served in their early years the way a true non-profit should. Then of course things changed. And the "private" part of the "private non-profit" took the wheel as it's done with most of our insurance companies. So I don't always fault BC/BS. Having had to deal with a lot of these insurers, they're all pretty much the same, change policies and procedures regularly, and drive providers and consumers crazy. I do think BC/BS has many contracts with Medicare and in some states Medicaid to run parts or all of their programs, but they're not owned by them.

I just got off the phone with them, and finally, finally was able to talk directly to the woman dealing with my claim. If I wrote out all she said your heads would spin, but it boils down to the fact that anyone along the line that has called me about this could have told me the same thing and I could have done it weeks ago. Evidently they can't (more like don't want to) figure out how these dates work with the PA Unemployment Extension forms. Now I even sent them extra forms which contained the explanation, but that would require they read them. Now I know in the future to write on the form what they want to know - the date the extension started, and how much I'm getting and for how many weeks. That's all in the forms, but this likely serves as a good way of denying a lot of eligible people. I was told the program was very "popular". Yea, like we want to be low income, unemployed, uninsured, and ineglible for Medicaid?

So I called the one Pain Management clinic in the region that prescribes meds. to ask if they accepted this insurance, and they said, no. That tells me they just don't want a policy that won't cover a lot of testing and fancy procedures, because the policy would cover a few office visits (and I could pay for the rest if I had to) and I'm paying for the Rx's anyway. But it's not going to cover MRI's and PT and injections and things which I don't need or want because I'VE HAD THEM ALL and don't want anymore!

Where's that vampire blood?

PaLady
Posted 10/16/2009 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
My God, PAlady, what you have been through! Well I do believe there is a doctor out there that will be the answer to your problems. I really do. I mean come on, with unemployment at nearly 10% in this country, a lot of people who had insurance and were current patients of doctors, are now out of work and have lost their insurance. Oh I know that some have COBRA, but that just goes so far.

I believe there are good dr's out there that still have a heart. Some still do believe "do unto others as you would have do unto them." And with this health care bill looming over their heads, THEY may just be in need of a prayer or two themselves! So it would behoove them to work with their patients who are struggling. It is unfair that your primary is unwilling to script the percocet. That puts you in a position of having to seek a new doctor, so you will not be the new doctor's long standing patient and he/she may not be as willing to work with you. But I believe that you are a good person. You are such a dear, giving person who has earned the respect of love of everyone on this forum and I believe that you will catch a break with a new doctor.

I am praying that this doctor that that has been away will be back and willing to help you with your plight. I am a prayerful woman, it's what I do, so just let me do it for you. It can't hurt.

Keep up the good fight with BC/BS and see if you can win there as well. I will be watching and waiting to see how you fare.

Many people here love you PAlady. Don't forget that. I am sending warm hugs ((((((((((((((((PAlady))))))))))))))))) and lots of prayers for you. Keep us all posted please.

Lindaloo
Posted 10/17/2009 12:40 AM (GMT 0)
Prescribing long term narcotics is out of the scope of practice of the majority of neurologists. The fact you have been prescribed percocet that was initially for post-surgical pain for almost 2 years dumbfounds me. As for your PCP, I would recommend seeing a new one because the one you have now sounds like no great shakes. As for pain clinics, the only ones that I know of that do not require insurance are the crooked ones in Florida that seem constantly be shut down by the DEA rolleyes . From the sounds of things, my advice would be seek gov-assisted health insurance for the time being. If you believe you will be experiencing withdrawl, you might be able to take your case to a local methadone clinic and receive low-cost methadone for period of time until you are able to get in with a PM doc. Good luck!
Posted 10/17/2009 1:05 AM (GMT 0)

 

 

Wow..what a disaster...and right before the Holidays.  I hope you get the insurance you're trying for...I know how much it sucks not to have insurance..I went for two years w/o and had to pay cash for my Dr. visit and scripts...Luckily for me the office visit was only $80 and the meds were only about 120...but still, if I had to pay cash now I would be in trouble.  Now that I have Diabetes, HBP, and Pain Meds...that would be about 2000/month.  I couldn't afford that!!

 

My best wishes are with you...

 

Me.

Posted 10/17/2009 2:11 AM (GMT 0)
I hear you PALady! What is most amazing to me is how different our states of this united nation are when it comes to services. Anyway, have you tried this--go to the closest County hospital and seek out a Medical Social Worker (someone with a Masters degree in social work; social work is very specific and people who actually go to school for it are highly trained professionals). Medical Social Workers in County hospitals are expert at what is available in the community, especially for low/no income people--they may be able to assist you in finding a PM MD somewhere close by that will satisfy your situation or have other options. I know a Psychiatric Social Worker (another specialty) who when asked helped me find (for a friend of mine) multiple MD's in our community that will write RXs for 25-55 a visit.
Posted 10/17/2009 4:02 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks to everyone for your posts here. Again, it moves me to tears! I really feel the group hug coming right off the screen and wrapping around me, and that is superb medicine!

I'm afraid to try to respond to each of you, because my brain may miss something, plus I'll be blubbering all over the keyboard before I get half way finished. This group is just amazing.

Big Lucy - it was good to hear from you. Start a thread and tell us how you're doing. And I'm intimately familiar with MSW's!! :-) We do have a free clinic in the area for things like regular day to day illnesses (I wonder what their tamiflu stock will be), but no one who will prescribe controlled substances. Even the other PM's don't. You're right - compared to Florida I can hardly believe it. When I saw the news story about Florida and how people could just walk into clinics and come out with as much as they wanted, and then go into another clinic...welll, can't discuss illegal stuff on the forum, but you're right, the difference between states is amazing.

There are also some new "urgent care" clinics opening up around the area. Funny, they opened up about 10 or 15 years ago, then all closed down, and now are opening new ones. Go figure. I'll have to call them and see what they charge. We don't have a county hospital here.

Anyway, thank you to everyone! I'll keep you upated on how this goes!

Hugs around!

PaLady
Posted 10/17/2009 4:12 AM (GMT 0)
 

   Dear PA Lady,

 

     Just a quick note to say *warmest huggs* And try to get some rest tonight... You mean oh so very much to us!

 

  *warm huggs*

        dani

Posted 10/17/2009 4:21 AM (GMT 0)
This is such a huge problem.  And not to be political but this is just the sort of thing that is going to drive a hostile take over of medical care by our government.  You need to contact YOUR congressman.  You need to let him or her know exactly what is going on with you.  You need to hold them accountable for your situation.  You have done everything right and you are still essentially being denied care.  Ask your congressman what he is going to do about this.  They need to find a solution for you.
Posted 10/17/2009 7:27 AM (GMT 0)
Gretchen,
I have been in touch with both my Senators and my Congresswoman about the health care issue. I have some very strong opinions on it which I can't voice here, but I will say a government take over is not at all what I'm worried about. Insurance companies are holding everyone hostage right now, but let's not get into a debate here! :-) At any rate, any changes will not take effect I think until around 2014. Heck I'll be eligible for Medicare by then regardless, just by age! (I can't believe I'm turning 60 this year!!!)

My one Senator's office did offer to help with the SSD process, but said they cannot help me with the intial filing. Later, they can post some kind of flag on my application to let people know that my Senator's office is watching. What's been amazing for me to learn through all this is the hoops and loopholes and obstacles that are put in the path of someone in my situation (and there are many, many now) both with Medicaid - which is the government program for low income but I don't quite meet their criteria - and the low income options offered by private insurers. I find it strangely odd that I am now thankful for the pharmaceutical programs because without them I'd never be able to afford my meds. Guess there are two sides to everything.

It's wrong for me, and it's wrong for anyone in to be denied health care, IMHO. At least basic care. I even have to pay for my own flu shot - if I can find someplace that has them!

Hugs to you Gretchen and Dani, and all my family here at HW.

I just read your signature again Gretchen; it's so inspirational! Thanks!

PaLady
Posted 10/17/2009 10:47 AM (GMT 0)
Palady,

 

Sorry to hear aobut your problem with your doctor, II dont have much to add but I thought I could share a little story that happened to me about 5 years ago that is somewhat similiar to yours (the pain medication/doctor issue, not the insurance).

 

I was seeing a GP doctor that also did PM in her practice, and I saw her for quite a while, she was a great doctor for a while but then one day she got overwhelmed due to personal issues she was having beyond her practice and she suddenly decided to close her practice. She left all us patients with 3 months worth of meds to get us through til we could find a new doctor.

 

Well I'm on medicaid cause I'm on disabilty, and absoutly NOBODY seems to take it in my area. We have 3 clinics here, one is for people with absoutly no insurance (they dont do CP that I know of) and 2 other clinics that are for medicaid/medicare and low income people.

 

WEll about a month before my meds was due to run out I saw one doctor at the low income clinic that said she couldnt do anything for my pain but their was another doctor in the clinic that's a Internist that could maybe help me, but I had my serious doubts about it. So I decided I had no choice but to taper with what was left of my pain meds and deal with it with OTC meds.

 

Well I completly forgot about my appt. with this internest til they called me one day reminding that I had an appointment that afternoon and wanted to know if I could come in earlier, so I decided why not, what could it hurt....Well let me tell you this doctor was one of the best doctors I've ever seen. He gave me my pain meds that I was already on without argueing, ordered some lab tests and other tests (made me take a drug test before he gave me my prescriptions which was fine with me) and he treated me for several years before he got in some disbute with the clinic and left.

 

So I wouldnt put down low income/free clinics just yet, they surprised me and gave me some of the best treatment (actually that one doctor did).

 

So I was wondering, what about seeing an internest doctor? Do you have one? I find with all my health issues and pain that they are the best at treatment everything inluding pain (alot of them do treat pain but of course some dont) so that may be an option.

 

-Carmen

 

Ps...

this clinic I talked about told me at first over the phone that they didnt treat pain, but once i got in to the see that one doctor there, I got great treatment.

Posted 10/17/2009 8:09 PM (GMT 0)
Kitty,
Thanks for sharing that. Thing is without any insurance, the free clinic is my only option and I know for certain they don't do any pain meds and I don't blame them. They're located in a pretty high risk part of the nearby city, and have a small pharmacy but no narcotics. The low income clinics mostly you need at least some type of insurance, and I'm trying to get that. Actually, if I get the insurance policy I applied for (the lady told me to call back Monday afternoon and she should be able to tell me) some doctors should take it.

As far as internists, there are very few around here. The one I'd love to have goten into years ago that my friend sees hasn't been taking new patients in ages. I would have switched PCP's long ago IF I could have found someone I considered a reasonable shot at doing better. And I asked around a lot.

Sometimes you just have to do what you can, and then wait. This won't be forever. I'll either die or get old enough for Medicare within a few years! Hopefully the latter! LOL

I'm way more concerned with the precancerous condition and treatment than the CP, to be honest. It's interesting how priorities shift when a life/death issue starts looming in your headlights.

Hugs,

PaLady
Posted 10/17/2009 8:25 PM (GMT 0)

 

 

Oh...don't get me started about the Florida Pain meds thing....my mom was telling me about how 6000 people die from taking pain meds a year there....I thought for sure that Fl. was computerized....you know, the Docs and the pharmacies?  Like here in Tn.  they didn't have the computerized thing here in Tn until a few years ago...I heard from many pill heads that you could go into 3 different Dr.'s offices and get all the pain meds you wanted with no trouble at all...what a mess...But now they are all connected so it's almost impossible to do it now... There are alot of pissed of junkies around here now...They should have done that in Florida a long time ago..

 

When this stuff happens anywhere in the US it makes it so hard for us legitimate CP Patients to get what we need..not what we want.  I don't know the answers...all I know is that the more people that abuse the system, the less likely CPer's will get it any easier...with or without insurance.

 

Palady, I am so sorry that you are dealing with this now.. I know what it was like when I had to pay just $80 a visit + scripts....I can only imagine what's going through your mind...I wish there was something I could do to help you..

 

If I can, please let me know....anything....I mean it...

 

you have always been there for all of us....so you shouldn't have to go through this alone.

 

Me.

Posted 10/17/2009 8:35 PM (GMT 0)
Rhonda,
Thanks so much! And you know, the great thing about Healing Well and all of you is that I'm NOT going through this alone! Well, ok, on a certain level I am. But if I stop and think for one second how much worse it would be if I couldn't come here....well, I can't even put that into words. I'd never be able to get out of bed!

So all of your caring, your hugs make a huge difference. Don't ever underestimate that!

Thank you!!

PaLady
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12