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Lots of constant neck & back pain, any ideas?

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Posted 11/22/2012 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
Hi there, I am new to Chronic Pain forum, but have been a long time member of HealingWell. Red, one of the moderators on the UC forum suggested I post here for some help.

I've been struggling with chronic pain. Not from my UC, but with symptoms from a car accident, which happened last November.

 

My accident was on November 2011. After the crash, I immediately had terrible back pain (lower back pain), and although I was strapped in, I think my head may have hit the steering wheel. I was in a fog when it happened, exchanged info with the idiot who hit me from behind (she was in a SUV on her cell, I was in my Mini Cooper, haha - not so funny now). I didn't think I was hurt enough to go to the ER. And figured the pains would go away. Within a few weeks, I started getting cognitive problems, neck, and back problems. But I figured they'd go away too. When my symptoms started getting much worse, and I had numbness and pins/needles in my legs, and clearly began forgetting my words mid-sentence and I was startled at what a f----- moron I had turned into, I decided it was time to see some doctors and a lawyer ( that was in Feb 2012).

But in the last 4 months, my symptoms have gotten really bad - lots of continual pain,  my shoulder areas go in muscles spasms that often goes on for hours at a time,etc...

I am in pain all the time, most especially with my neck, shoulders, and back. And it seems as if all my symptoms are getting worse, much worse. I have tingling and pins/needles, and numbness in both my left and right legs (from the knee downwards). The pain in my neck is awful, which extends down through my shoulders and into my right arm. On top of that, it's affected my cognitive skills as well.

 

We were rear-ended at a red light, and as a result, I now have several herniated discs, including two that are impinging on my spinal cord (one in my neck and one in my thoracic region). Two different neurologists I went to, told me if I ever get in an accident again or take a bad fall, I will be paralyzed for life.

 

They want to operate on my neck, which would mean they go through my throat - too scary! I don't want the surgery, but I'm in so much pain all the time, I really don't know what to do. I went to see 1 surgeon, he told me he'd do it through the throat, and would have to use a triple to fuse the area - C4-5-6. I guess I should get another consult from another surgeon.

 

 

 

I tried some physical therapy and it made my symptoms much worse, so I had to stop. As far as steroid shots, I was almost going to go, and then the famous meningitis outbreak happened (as a direct result of the steroid shots) so I'm not too keen on that anymore.

 

 

 

I've been spending my time on an extra-long heating pad, which goes from my lower back to the base of my skull - and it seems to be only some temporary relief I can get.

 

I'm searching for something which will help heal nerves, etc...

 

Anyone know of any supplements capable of doing this extraordinary feat?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

Posted 11/23/2012 4:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hi there...

Welcome to the CP board...sorry to hear about your accident last year..The hard part now is that most everyone over the age of 25-30 starts having degenerative changes in their spine and can develop bone spurs or herniated discs...So your lawyer may have a harder time proving that this came from the accident since you didn't seek any medical care...But hope you can work things out if needed...

There are many of us who have similar issues with our cervical region of our spine...And certainly everyone on here can empathize about the chronic pain and what a toll it takes on us..

You mention Neurologists...but have you actually gone to see a Board Certified...Fellowship trained Neurosurgeon? You will see the letters F.A.C.S. after their name and M.D. initials...

This is the most highly skilled Dr. in the cervical area of the spine...

There are many things to try before surgery if they say that you are ok to wait on this.

Please don't be afraid of steroid injections because of the recent news. There are hundreds of thousands of these done with no problems at all. The issue with the tainted ones were because they came from a compounding pharmacy that sold them in bulk. Most Dr.s do not use that type...

Many of us on here have had plenty of these injections...They can truly be helpful to stop a lot of the inflammation that is going on.

This is where ice is much better than heat...Heat on any type of inflammation will make things worse..

Are you on any type of nerve pain medication like Lyrica, Neurontin, or Cymbalta? These are specific meds that target the nerve pain that many of us have with these issues..

Same thing with having a muscle relaxer to take when needed for those awful spasms...These are Flexeril or Amrix, Robaxin, Skelaxin, Baclofen, or Zanaflex...

And even if you have to have the surgery...I know it sounds scary but it really is pretty easy to go through the front in the neck...I've had 3 of these fusion surgeries and the last one they did the front and then flipped me over and went in through the back of the neck. The back is much worse as they have to cut through muscle..

Most people don't have much pain at all with the incision through the front and it heals to where you can barely see it:)

And just so you can learn a bit about the spine...the discs are the "squishy" material in between each vertebrae. This is what "herniates" and then causes it to ooze out to put pressure on the spinal cord and surrounding nerves..

You mention C4-C5...that would be considered one level....C5-C6 is another level....So I'm not sure why the Dr. mentioned "triple"...

At this point I really recommend seeing a Dr. that I mentioned so they can take a look at your most recent MRI (if you haven't had one in the last 6 months then they will order another one)...

The good news is that with the right Dr. and help with good physical therapy, injections, medication, traction, ice, ultrasound, aqua therapy, TENS unit, or other means....close to 85% of people with spine issues can have their problems resolved NON surgically...

And try not to worry too much about those Drs. saying you could be paralyzed at any moment......There are many people walking around with herniated discs that don't even realize it! This could happen to anyone..at any time. Just take things one day at a time..If you were in a precarious situation...they would have done surgery ASAP within a week of seeing your MRI...

I still have 3 severe herniations myself as we aren't doing a 4th surgery unless it's absolutely warranted..So we are using every single possible modality to help keep the pain at a manageable level..

I'm certainly not trying to minimize anything here..Believe me...I truly understand your pain...and it can all seem scary when hearing things like the surgery or dealing with the spine...But there are wonderful and skilled Drs. out there to help you.

A good Neurosurgeon will also work with a Pain Management Dr. to try and do everything they can to help you non surgically first...and then move forward with surgery if needed. If that is the case...you should get a 2nd and even 3rd opinion from other Board Certified Neurosurgeons just to be sure they all agree.

Hopefully you can find a great Dr. to get you into a good physical therapy program along with nerve pain and muscle pain relievers...get a TENS unit for you to use...and try the steroid or lidocaine injections to see if they help.

Keep us posted..
Posted 11/25/2012 12:29 AM (GMT 0)
Snowbunny,

Thank for your lengthy reply.

My lawyer has already told me that the woman who hit me has an insurance company that doesn't pay. And although the IME (from my auto insurance) said there was definite causality with the accident, he told me it's going to be a tough case.

Yes, both neurologists were board certified, F.A.C.S. + M.D. (one was a neurosurgeon).

But you are right, I probably need second and third opinions as well.

I appreciate your sharing your surgical experience - especially the part of their going through the neck and then the back - and having it be successful; that gives me some hope.

I have tried so far: physical therapy, traction, ice, TENS, ultrasound. Both the physical therapy and the traction made my symptoms much worse. I do get some very temporary relief from Tens, ice, ultrasound, and some very light chiropractics.

Because of the UC (ulcerative colitis) which is now in remission, I have to be very, very careful of any other meds I take - especially pain killers. That's the reason I try and do as much as I can  with natural supplements. One of the docs suggested putting me on some gabbapentin(sp?), but the other said it really wouldn't accomplish much except make me feel "out of it". I do take some xanax for sleep, and anxiety when I need it. But no other meds.

Someone on the UC forum suggested high dosage Vitamin C therapy, have you heard anything about this?

Thanks again for your help, support, and input. I very much appreciate it.

 

Posted 11/25/2012 12:39 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for sharing more...I haven't heard of high dosage Vitamin C as a treatment for anything but keeping colds/flu away...lol..So I can't help you there...

Many people with spine/disc issues have really good nerve pain relief with Gabapentin (brand name is Neurontin)....

There are always side effects with pretty much every medication and the "fuzzy" feeling usually goes away within a few weeks to a month. The medicine is meant to be started on a low dosage and then tirate up as needed.

I understand your having to be choosy because of the UC....but I think a good Neurosurgeon can work with your UC Dr. and the Pharmacist to make sure any medications chosen won't make things worse..

I, personally, would stay away from ALL things Chiropractic related...I was told by my Neurosurgeon that I could have been harmed greatly if I had gone to one with my herniated discs...

As I mentioned...trying the steroid or lidocaine injections is the next step along with trying medications...or a Medrol dose pack which is an oral steroids treatment.

There is always a fine line with how long to do treatments/medication without causing any permanent damage...but this is where a reputable Board Certified Neurosurgeon will know that line and try as many modalities as they can before deciding that surgery is the next step.

I would be trying nerve pain meds and/or a muscle relaxer to see if you can get the pain reduced...then trying a good round of Physical Therapy/traction to see if you can calm things down enough to not need surgery. Because you aren't on anything for pain...you mentioned you weren't able to tolerate the PT....

Those are just my thoughts...we certainly all have to take our own path and we are here for you no matter what to cheer you on and help you through any possible treatment or surgery!
Posted 11/25/2012 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
Hello and welcome to the chronic pain forum. I am sorry to hear that you were involved in a accident. That is exactly what started a long road of pain for me with my neck and shoulders. The thing I would be most concerned with is you say you are getting worse instead of better. I would for sure get another opinion with another neurosurgeon. Sometimes if you wait too long to have anything done the nerve damage cannot be reversed. No one likes to rush into surgery but sometimes there are no other options. If you have nerve damage going on the odds of it going away on its own are pretty slim.

Hopefully, you have a good lawyer and between him and your drs this will be covered. I worked in the legal field over 20 yrs and saw many people have different surgeries because of accidents. If you have no history of prior neck problems you shouldn't have a problem. Insurance companies are notorius for saying oh we didn't cause this. They want to pay out the least money possible on all claims.

I have not heard of the high dose of vitamin C either and really would not put much stock into it. I hope you can get something going to get yourself feeling better. Take care...Susie
Posted 11/25/2012 3:15 AM (GMT 0)
Hi there, so sorry to hear of the problems you're having, I hope you are able to get some relief from them soon. I also have never heard of any vitamin c dose to help with back problems, but my doc currently has me taking glucosamine chondrite, which he says will help the remaining discs in my back, and save my knees from walking with a terrible gait. I too was told, as you were, that further damage could result in paralysis, well, I'm not a paraplegic, but half of my left thigh is still unresponsive, with no patellar reflex as of yet on that leg; so please do not delay in getting other opinions.

Goodluck with your court case, I've seen those go either way, it really depends a lot on the skill of your attorney. Take care, and keep us posted on what happens.
Posted 11/25/2012 12:54 PM (GMT 0)
2y4t,

Thanks for your input.

So I gather you havent' had any surgery yet?

As to my attorney, well, I am hoping he'll be fighting on my behalf and not just do it the easy way ( as in just leaving it at that the ins co just won't pay).

straydog,

One of the neuros I saw told me that symptoms getting worse is not unusual, and he expected the symptoms to get better within a few months???? To me, this didn't match my level of concern, especially since I've been struggling with this for 1 year now. The neurosurgeon the lawyer sent me to hasn't yet finalized his report, would you suggest I go to someone else outside the lawyer's circuit or wouldn't that create other problems too? I am quite concerned about having another opinion, but am not quite sure about how to go about it.

snowbunny,

Yes, perhaps it's time I try some gabapentin?

I'm just feeling so bummed about all this...

 

Posted 11/25/2012 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sure you are bummed with all of this:(

I will certainly say some prayers that if you need surgery...it will be a smooth sailing and good recovery that provides a lot of relief.

In the meantime..yes, I would be considering treatments like the Gabapentin and/or injections if they will help bring down the pain a bit. Every little bit counts!

Sending some gentle hugs (( ))
Posted 11/25/2012 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, I would get an appt with a board certified neurosurgeon that is not in any way connected to the law firm. I would not waste anymore money seeing another neurologist. The atty may get a little peeved about it, but you have apparently been given 2 different opinions on things and its time for a tie breaker from someone not involved in the legal situation. You need a little more clarity with your physical problems. I am saying if this were me this is the direction I would take, of course this is all strictly your decision.

I would be willing to try Gabapentin, granted there are some side effects with it, but each person is different on how they react and they usually only last a couple of weeks. My husband is on it for diabetic neuropathy and it took putting him on a high dose before he got some relief. He has it in his hands and feet really bad and its helped.

Take care......Susie
Posted 11/25/2012 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
InSoFla, I just need to add as well in regards to the cervicle fusions if it does come to that recommendation for you. I had a one level c5-6, and it was a piece of cake. My symptoms were slowly getting worse due to DDD, DJD and I took a spill on ice which made my slow progression very acute. He recommended surgery 2 days after my fall. I ended up waiting 10 days so I could get things situated at work. Pretty much resolved all my symptoms within a few weeks. My scar is completely unnoticable and with the exception of a slight decrease in ROM I am good. It gets a bit stiff but pain levels are pretty low. I wouldnt hesitate to do another C level fusion if the NS said it was needed. Lumbar I may refuse however, that was horrible for me.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do!
Posted 11/26/2012 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
Shell, Straydog, and Snowbunny,

Thanks again for your comments and help.

Yes, I guess I am at the point of getting another opinion (one not connected to the lawyer), and will have to look into gabapentin too.

How is Lyrica different from what gabapentin would work?

Would I be better off with Lyrica first?

Shell, it's good to know that your c5-6 was a piece of cake.

I'm really not concerned about the scar, it may sound silly, but I'm afraid they'll do some damage to my throat and it will hamper my ability to speak ( I keep seeing images in my mind's eye about a crushed larynx/pharynx... not so lol).

Posted 11/26/2012 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
I think it's extremely rare that somoene has any permanent issues with their voice...I was hoarse and sore for about a week after all three of my surgeries but did not have a single problem after that..

A reputable and skilled BC Neurosurgeon has done thousands of these surgeries and takes great care to move things out of the way during this surgery as to not cause any damage.

I know it's hard not to think about "what if"...but it will drive you crazy and cause a lot of unnecessary angst. Try to take things one day at a time...

In regards to the nerve pain medication..it's all just what works best for you. They are all three different meds but all work on nerve pain. (Lyrica, Neurontin, or Cymbalta)

The key is knowing that they do have some side effects that may take a few weeks to work through....so it's just working with your Dr. to see which is a good fit..
Posted 11/26/2012 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
Snowbunny,

Thanks for addressing the concern about "crushing" the larynx/pharynx... I guess it's all in the surgeon's skill, and if I intend to move to that stage, I better find the absolutely BEST qualified one out there.

Is there anything else I should look for other than F.A.C.S.?

Would you suggest another recommendation through Cleveland Clinic?

I'll do some research on the 3 nerve pain meds and see what my doc says too.

Years ago I was on Cymbalta for depression, and when I finally got off it, OMG - the withdrawal symptoms were horrid, totally off the chart... I wouldn't want to endure that again.

Posted 11/26/2012 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
I think if you do your research and look for the Fellowship and Board Certification credentials...you will be ok. Another thing is that many Drs. have a few patients who have had surgery that are ok with you calling them (agreed to this per the HIPAA law) to ask about their experience.

Asking around your work and/or friends on Facebook too for recommendations in your area can be helpful. I'm not familiar with your area and the Cleveland Clinic and I don't know all the ins/outs with regards to lawsuits and the way all that works with everything..

I was on Cymbalta for a few years and I made the terrible mistake of going off it cold turkey! It was awful! Brain "zaps" and restlessness, feeling strange....So...now I have learned that whatever medication I am on...if I need to go off it....it is slowwww and steady tapering that wins the race...LOL

That is what is so wonderful about HW....even though we aren't medical professionals....there is a lot to learn from everyone and to help you through the journey with chronic pain and all the decisions that come with it...
Posted 11/26/2012 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
Snowbunny, yes you're so right about the brain zaps, restlessness... I thought I was going out of my mind... thanks for the suggestions on finding a good surgeon.
Posted 11/27/2012 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
hello InSoFla, they most certainly will go through the front of your trapezoid area for anything relating to the c-5 area..
I had a steroid injection for my c-5 discs and they went through the front, and i was awake during the procedure.
It did help with the pain, but the most memorable part of the whole process is when the needle touched the nerve and i felt a jolt of what was like electricity going down my arm. The whole process was a bit dicey, but in the end it did help.
It stinks what your going through, but i wouldn't worry about voice loss and such. good luck.
Posted 11/27/2012 12:28 AM (GMT 0)
Sammy...I'm pretty sure the trapezius muscle runs from the back of the neck at the base of the skull and down to the mid back (thoracic) and laterally to include the shoulder blades (scapula)...

For any anterior fusion...they go in through the front of the neck...I've had this surgery 3 times in the two levels of C5-C6 and C6-C7...The whole reason they go in through the anterior approach for most of these fusions is to avoid having to cut through any muscle.

Now...the posterior approach, which they also included in my last fusion, goes through that particular muscle...This is why the posterior approach is much more painful....

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 11/26/2012 5:39:14 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/27/2012 2:13 AM (GMT 0)
We had lots of clients that had the ACF with no hardware and they were well on the road to recovery in six weeks. If hardware is used, then its usually a longer recovery. Our clients did great, many said when they woke from surgery the old pain was completely gone and all they had to deal with was post surgical pain which they knew would go away.

Any surgery is major and you just need to do your homework on finding the right dr,

Take care.....Susie
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