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Posted 3/11/2009 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
Doesn't it seem odd that with all the technology available to science these days that there hasn't been a cure for anything in over 50 years? And why are drug companies allowed to advertise prescription drugs to the general public on televison. Could profit be the answer to both questions?
Posted 3/11/2009 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
I hope that they are not doing that! We may not have a cure on its way just yet but Prochymal shows a lot of promise for putting people into remission almost side effect free. So I'm optimistic at this point.
Posted 3/11/2009 4:22 PM (GMT 0)
Tony,
I sometimes think the same thing myself. There have been advances in treatment, but no cures.....leads me to think that to cure would put too many people out of jobs...i.e. doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals....etc.
Posted 3/11/2009 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe it is just not possible to cure a genetic disease? It's not like medicine can change our genetic code, am I right? If CD is definitely genetic, I won't be too shocked if modern medicine fails to ever bring a cure to the table. Sometimes I think the best we can hope for is a treatment to force the disease into remission as painless as possible. Even if you have to go for repeat treatments of drugs like Prochymal, that is a huge breakthrough to what we have had to date.

However, I do believe some of it is just for profit from us to a certain extent. Pharmaceutical companies and the like aren't doing research and development just to help the population, but to make their fortune as well. What American or otherwise is not out there to make their fortune for that matter?
Posted 3/11/2009 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
CD is not a genetic disease. There's a genetic component to it but it's not a purely genetic disease like Hemophilia or Cystic Fibrosis or Sickle Cell Anemia.

If it was genetic, you wouldn't be seeing an sharp increase in cases worldwide. You wouldn't see it in people who have no other family members with Crohn's. There's an environmental component which I think is where the treatment should be focused.

And it is possible to cure genetic diseases. Bubble boy syndrome (or SCID) has been cured. Sickle Cell Anemia has been cured.
Posted 3/11/2009 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
I believe there are people working hard on cures for diseases.... Some of these people may have personal interest in the cures themselves... whether its because of family members with the disease... or they themselves have the disease....

I plan on becoming a biochemist... I hope to help find a cure.... Or a better treatment..... Or at least a better alternative chocolate *Grumbles*
Posted 3/11/2009 6:39 PM (GMT 0)

To say that there have been no cures in over 50 years is simply not correct. Many childhood leukemias and about 80% of lymphomas are now curable with mixed chemotherapies and even bone marrow transplants developed since the 1970s. Prior to that they were 100% fatal. A wide range of antibiotics have come on line in recent decades to address mutations in bacteria, which would have proved fatal to millions. The anti-virals are also fairy new and can clear up or reduce things like shingles and herpes. Smallpox was entirely eradicated within the last 50 years, worldwide. It was just over 50 years ago that polio vaccine was introduced, and polio used to kill or cripple tens of thousands of kids in the US alone every year. As for autoimmune diseases, which all seem to have at least some genetic factor, that's not going to be "curable" until we learn to test for genetic tendendies and manipulate genes either in utero or at birth. I really don't have any problem with a drug company making a buck off my current prescription for 6mp and using that money to fund research in genetic engineering, which a lot of them are doing.

I suppose we could just tell the pharma companies to go pound sand and go back to the era, which includes parts of the 20th century, when all doctors had to offer for even a simple pneumonia was a cold compress and the number of the local funeral home.

Honestly, I really can't buy the suggestion that the entire medical establishment wants people to be sick. They make money from cures, a product people are -- not -- dying to buy. Good for them.

Posted 3/11/2009 7:28 PM (GMT 0)
Sickle cell anemia has not been cured.
Posted 3/11/2009 8:33 PM (GMT 0)
Just for the record, Tony, I do NOT think you are a cynic. I think it is healthy to question the motives of ANY industry, ESPECIALLY one that makes BILLIONS of dollars off of sick people. In fact, I think it would be insane NOT to question industries, be they pharmaceutical or otherwise.

I think this post is veering away from the heart of the matter, though... I don't think we need to dissect what "has" or "has not" been cured - that's not the point. Nor do I think any of us are saying we need to revert back to "olden times" in our ungratefulness for what the medical community HAS accomplished.

I think the heart of Tony's original post (and correct me if I'm wrong, Tony) is that it seems insane that with all of our "technology" these days that we can't come up with some better solutions than the ones we have in regards to medical treatments.

Yes, technically maybe chemotherapy "cures" cancer in that it gets rid of it.... but not permanently, and not without often horrific and prolonged side effects. 2 years of hell via chemotherapy and radiation for my mom's breast cancer was almost more than a human could handle, in my opinion. No one's badmouthing chemo and saying revert to the days of "cold compresses and funerals" - that's way out in left field. The point is that yes, chemotherapy "works", I'm grateful that my mother is still around - believe me - but in all these years - we haven't come up with a better way to battle this? I'd like to think that if I get breast cancer in the next decade that there will be something other than the chemo/radiation combo of doom to combat the situation.

All I'm saying, I guess, is that this issue is ALL SHADES OF GRAY. It doesn't have to be conspiracy theorists verses medical disciples. Sure, we've come a LONG way. But lets not get too comfy where we are, and lets pay attention to who is in the driver's seat of every trial and every article that we read; is it research in the name of a cure, or big pharmaceutical companies in search of the allmighty dollar? As is usually the case, I think the answer is usually in the shades of gray in between.
Posted 3/11/2009 8:38 PM (GMT 0)

justjenjen said...
Sickle cell anemia has not been cured.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081107143750.htm

Read this.

Posted 3/11/2009 9:32 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, well the article only talks about severe cases...so that doesn't help those who don't fall under that heading. How would you feel if I received a cure for crohn's b/c I have severe disease and you do not? Would you really consider that a cure in all sense of the word? Shouldn't a true cure apply to everyone affected? This transplant technique certainly isn't helping my friend who was hospitalized for a week and has been on oxygen since her release. That was a few weeks ago and she is still recovering!
Posted 3/12/2009 1:28 AM (GMT 0)

justjenjen said...
Yes, well the article only talks about severe cases...so that doesn't help those who don't fall under that heading. How would you feel if I received a cure for crohn's b/c I have severe disease and you do not? Would you really consider that a cure in all sense of the word? Shouldn't a true cure apply to everyone affected? This transplant technique certainly isn't helping my friend who was hospitalized for a week and has been on oxygen since her release. That was a few weeks ago and she is still recovering!

 

You stated there was no cure, and I was simply showing that there is one.  Although it's an extreme treatment, it has still resulted in a cure.  The article states the fact that people who underwent the treatment don't have the disease anymore and have not had it recur which is a cure in my books. This same treatment would cure any autoimmune disease (including Crohn's) because the patient would not have their defective immune system anymore.  They would have the immune system of the healthy donor.

Your friend's case obviously sounds severe.  If her life is in danger, then I would go to another doctor who might be more open to the idea. 

Posted 3/12/2009 1:29 AM (GMT 0)
Im not sure if this has been said because I dont have the patience to read every post.  But I personally believe that every disease has a cure, however they are hidden and not used. Why? Because the drug companys would lose so much money, why would they sell the cure?  They make tons of money selling us drugs, and even more so with the drugs that cause other problems then the original.  I honestly dont believe that all of these drug companies and doctors have our best intrest in mind, its all about the money.  There was a story about a chinese doctor who had found the cure for cancer, he went to many companys trying to show them his idea and he was laughed at and showed the door, he was even told that no drug company would buy his product because they make so much money with radation and chemo that by curing cancer would take them broke.  He was offered 50 million dollars to shut his mouth, and he declined it.  Yeah, some of these medicines will add 10 maybe 20 years to our life, but at what cost?  I do agree with one of the other posters, that there are SOME chemists and doctors that truly and honestly want to find a cure for whatever disease hits home for them. I find it very odd that Ive seen comericals advertised for Humira and RA, and sorisis (sp) but Ive never once seen it advertised for Crohns, maybe I just missed it.  But Im personally  sick of having drugs made for other disease pawned off to me. I do NOT have cancer, I do NOT have RA....I have CROHNS DISEASE, and i want one specific drug made to treat it, and only it. Why is it that a drug that is supposed to help us makes us lose our hair, or get unbarable joint pains, fatigue, horrible skin, cancer, TB...the list goes on and on.....Id rather just live with the freakin crohns then deal with all of the side effects.
Posted 3/12/2009 2:06 PM (GMT 0)
Some diseases are very similar to one another, which explains why some drugs that are effective for one disease would also be effective for another. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease just like Crohn's. The inflammation that effects them is not in the intestines but in the joints. A drug that calms inflammation in the body would do well for any disease where inflammation occurs.

It would, however, be nice if there was some sort of treatment that would better help people with Crohn's reduce the amount of scarring in the intestines and reverse some of the narrowing that goes on, too...

Maybe it is because more people are effected with RA than Crohn's that this kind of thing happens...
Posted 3/12/2009 2:56 PM (GMT 0)
I think those of you who don't believe that cures are being stifled for big profit are being naive. Prior to the Polio vaccine, what significant cures have been discovered. That odds are unlikely that we wouldn't have found some cures for something by now. I just don't buy it. There was a segment on 60 Minutes last year about a guy who invented a cure for cancer with radio waves and a metalic injection which bonded with cancer cells. Once the metal bonded to the cancer cells the radio waves heated up only the cancer cells and killed them. It was tested on mice and worked everytime with no side affects at all and it worked on any type of cancer. What happened to that guy? What happened to any followup to that story? I watched it with my own eyes so I know the story but I haven't heard anything since then. Why wouldn't I be skeptical????? Whoever thought Bernard Madoff would steal 50 billion dollors until he got caught? I worked in the car sales business for 8 years before I retired. If any of you had any idea how crooked that business is you would all buy a horse instead and it's all about "the money".

Profit is profit whether its Pizza Hut or Eli Lilly!!!
Posted 3/12/2009 3:08 PM (GMT 0)

Ah yes, radio waves and secret metals . . . and tinfoil hats . . . and masked medicine men shaking gourd rattles.

Please people, does anyone really believe that the drug companies have clandestine cures for everything hidden in a shadowy vault somewhere but refuse to reveal them? If they had them they would sell them . . . it's not like curing a disease is a one-time thing. There will always be a newly diagnosed case of Crohns somewhere, every day, for which the mythical cure would be prescribed. Same is true of every other illness or condition. And if they really had a secret cure for cancer, they'd market it in a minute because every cancer patient thus saved would be a future customer for everything from aspirin to blood pressure meds.

I have known people who worked in medical research. They all, without exception, would love to be the one to find the cure for anything and win the Nobel prize and make a zillion dollars from the patent rights. But at bottom they also feel they are doing a real service to humanity, and i agree with them. Final thought: There is no vast international secret cabal controlling anything . . . it makes a fun Tom Cruise movie, but in the real world it does not exist.

Posted 3/12/2009 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
Mike you are so wise! I have a bridge in Indiana I'll sell you for $50. Let me know, that's a great price!

Posted 3/12/2009 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
I live in hope that there will be a treatment/cure for us.

While I am a realist, I would like to think there people are trying to help us, and I hope their number is higher then the people who do not care about us.

Just someone who continues to want to be of service to her fellow human beings.

As someone who has been in both the military and law enforcement I am very aware that people do really crummy things to each other, but I have also seen the amazing extent that people will go to to do wonderful things for each other (and those I hope really are the silent majority).

Just your paranoid, but very cautiously optimsitic mod.

Posted 3/12/2009 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
just my 2cents...JMHO (I was also double science major: molecular bio & biochem. Also was involved in clinical research and worked in emerging infectious diseases for my state)...there are Many causative factors for disease in which both genetics AND environment play a role.

In the instance of cancer, say cervical, HPV may be a factor but first you have to be able to "catch it" and it is not known why some do and some don't. This suggests a genetic susceptibility. Environmental issues may also play a role in this as well (such as additives like parabens: estrogen amounts have been implicated in this cancer.). Lastly, HPV is only one issues in this type of cancer, they are unsure of the others.

So in essence, a cure for cancer, you would have to take into account all parts of the patients genome for errors, any contact with other living organisms that could change this (viruses esp double stranded DNA types, bacteria, etc.) and chemicals. Not sure it's really so easy. (look how long it too to find microbe theory of disease after the microscope was invented)

So to is it with Crohn's. I do not deny that the drug companies want to make money, but it would be to hard to keep a secret any "cure". Researchers go into this field, not for the money (heck, for the amount of education, it would be more effective to get an MBA), but to help. Even in courts, you couldn't keep that may people quiet.

Lastly, on the matter of "cures". Yes, some can be "cured" as in the article mentioned, but the side effects are many times worse than the disease(even in the article mentioned), so the "cure" is left until all options have run out. (ie, the "cure" will kill you faster than the disease)
Posted 3/12/2009 4:36 PM (GMT 0)
Yellowfin... Pharmaceutical companies are out to make a profit, for sure... Otherwise, all medicine would be free..... But think of this, too.... Any industry.... any company.... Even one that releases "natural products" to the consumers... are out for a profit.

I agree with what MikeB and Becoming undone said... It makes sense. Hmm...

Not to get off topic or anything, but... Undone, you said you were a double science major... Are you still working? Or are you retired? Did your disease get in the way? How's the job prospects in your state? Just curious... because I want to major in Biochemistry, too...

Second..... MikeB.... you mentioned tinfoil hats... I don't suppose you read Artemis Fowl? :D
Posted 3/12/2009 6:22 PM (GMT 0)
MikeB, I respect your opinion but I do disagree.  Im not saying there is a cure for everything.  But I truly and honestly believe that there are cures, more specifically natural cures that are known about but hidden.  No one can patent natural cures.  This is why they lose money.  Even if they charged every single crohns patient 1 million dollars for the cure, they are still losing millions, even billions as opposed to the medicines they are selling now.  Sure your pharmasist may want to see you get better, and the next 10 people above each other in that industry, but when you get to the top of the chain, its all about the money, they do not care about you or what disease you have, they care about how they can keep taking money out of everyones pocket and put it in theirs.  Again this is just my opinion, I dont want anyone to be offended by it.  I wish I had the ability to believe people had more compassion, and truly did things for the right reasons, but I think we all know to find people like that in the world is a very hard thing to do, especially when you throw  billions of dollars into their pocket...things are bound to get corrupt.
Posted 3/12/2009 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
Yellowfin,

Do you realize how much money the company that finds a cure first for any disease will receive? What about the HPV vaccine? Why would the pharmaceutical companies try to prevent cervical cancer when they can just make you go through endless treatments?
Posted 3/12/2009 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
Ladies and Gentlemen, please make sure your posts are respectful. I think this might be getting a bit out of hand and I do not want anyone to be hurt.

Peace Folks!
Posted 3/12/2009 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sure nobody is trying to hurt anybody's feelings.... Everything looks pretty civilized.... But then, I can be kind of oblivious, sometimes...

Hmm... That whole thing MikeB said at the beginning was mean, though... *It kind of went over my head... The first thing I thought when I saw tin foil hats was Artemis Fowl.... Sorry*

We all have Crohn's disease, for sure... and we should be helping each other, not hurting each other. :)

Oh... and MAG... I wouldn't be so sure about that.... Some "natural" products (I hate this term because it implies that pharmaceutical products are not natural. This would be largely untrue. A lot of pharmaceutical products are derived from nature, just like the "natural products") can be patented, and most probably, are... I think one of the biggest differences between pharmaceutical products and "natural" products is that pharmaceutical products are tested for safety, side effects, effectiveness, etc. whereas most natural products (keyword: Most. Some, such as some probiotics *but not all* are tested) are not...

And I'd like to reiterate here that just because something is natural does not mean that it cannot do any harm... There are several poisonous plants... poisonous mushrooms... etc. etc. etc... These things can be very harmful if consumed...

Companies that market natural products, in fact, make quite a lot of money... It's a very profitable business because many people believe natural products to be a lot safer than pharmaceutical products (this may be true, but again, because a lot of natural products go untested *Due to the Dietary Health and Education Act* it is hard to say for certain)...
Posted 3/12/2009 8:56 PM (GMT 0)
Let's just say this thread could stand to be a little more gentle with each other, we are all sick here. Sarcasm really is not nice folks, and I have noticed sarcasm on both sides of the debate.
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