HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Mycobacterium Avium Paratuberculosis and Crohn's, AMAZING!

Support Forums
>
Crohn's Disease
✚ New Topic locked
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/28/2009 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
This video blew my mind!!! I don't know if you guys are aware of this already, but I just heard of this!!!! MAP is the cause of a large subset of Crohn's?? Watch all 9 videos on youtube, you must if you have Crohn's and wonder why you got the disease. Seems like a likely hypothesis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crm4pKz6X2M&feature=PlayList&p=929205EC991F802C&index=0
Posted 10/28/2009 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
The MAP theory has been around for years based on the similarity between Johnes disease and Crohn's, but nothing has been proven conclusively.
Posted 10/28/2009 8:17 PM (GMT 0)
This guy published a paper in 2007 fulfilling Koch's postulates . . . which prove MAC causes Crohn's. Watch all of the videos, and here's the pubmed link to the paper, which I'm in the process of reading. Will get back to you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.galter.northwestern.edu/pubmed/17611175?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4
Posted 10/28/2009 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, we have a member here who actually filmed those and, if memory serves me, appears in one or two, as well!

If you're interested, there are also some good interviews of a Dr. Marcel Behr, a leading Canadian MAP researcher, on youtube. I think they are a presentation to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of Canada...
Posted 10/28/2009 8:28 PM (GMT 0)
My fault, just read the paper, he didn't do the experiments to fulfill Koch's postulates but he sort of gathers evidence from other scientists that does. He also has a vested interest in developing antibiotics to better treat MAC specifically through a company called Giaconda Limited.
Posted 10/28/2009 8:50 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure who your buddy Koch is, but this has been discussed for, like, the past decade.

Use the search function and enjoy.
Posted 10/29/2009 12:25 AM (GMT 0)
I guess I'm new to the forum and you are a veteran. But anyway, it seems to me that MAC is a cause in the majority of cases of Crohn's. That is hope for a cure . . . I thought a cure was hopeless for a long time
Posted 10/29/2009 12:35 AM (GMT 0)
I found the whole MAP / MAC postulate to be very convincing ... to the point where I tried to actually seek anti-MAP therapy.  Here are the things I tried:

1) Contacted the Pharmaceutical Company in Australia whose anti-MAP treatment is in Phase 2 or 3 trials with the FDA (at the time they were not taking new patients; however their CEO emailed me back personally a very heart-felt letter on the subject.)

2) Tried Beck Protocol for eradicating MAC / MAP (not sure what I did wrong, but my symptoms seemed to get worse.)

3) Tried high doses of colloidal (NOT ionic) silver.  Pure colloidal silver that do NOT contain proteins will not cause Aygyria -- that is a big misconception about colloidal silver.


Has anyone out there had success with anti-MAP/MAC treatments of any kind?

Posted 10/30/2009 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
What about natural antibacterials such as berberine complex, black walnut tincture, olive leaf extract or LDM-100 (NOT the same as LDN)? 
Posted 10/30/2009 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
I tried it and it didn't help.
Posted 10/31/2009 12:19 AM (GMT 0)
Do you mean the Giaconda protocol failed, or are you answering mooby?
Posted 10/31/2009 3:16 AM (GMT 0)
It takes a few months too see any benefit with the antibiotics. Most people who I talked to who used them said it took about 4-5 months before they noticed significant improvement.
Posted 10/31/2009 3:08 PM (GMT 0)
There is a group for Crohn's in the UK on Facebook that claims to be developing a vaccine to eradicate MAP and thus Crohn's.  I'm guessing it's years down the road and most US docs, like my daughter's, would be very skeptical.
Posted 11/7/2009 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
The vaccine is being developed by Professor John-Hermon Taylor. It has been shown to eradicate MAP in mice. If you want to read the paper he has recently published it is available free on the internet at:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0001229

 

Posted 11/7/2009 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
I will be one of the first people in line for that vaccine!
Posted 11/7/2009 7:57 PM (GMT 0)
Carnival Huckster spoke earlier [10/28/2009 6:35 PM (GMT -7)] of seeking treatment with antibiotics and how he was unable to get into the Myoconda drugs trial. I have been advised by a leading proponent of antibiotic therapy for CD:

'MAP bugs are difficult to eradicate but treatment with Rifabutin 150mgs Clarithromycin 250mgs after breakfast, and Rifabutin 150mgs Clarithromycin 500mgs after supper will make about 70% of people with active CD better. Treatment needs to go on for at least 2½ years.'

The above mentioned antibiotics are in common use. In the UK we would have to seek an appointment with a Consultant via our General Practitioner. We would then have to convince the Consultant that antibiotic therapy for CD is the only therapy than can heal mucosa (see Thomas Borody's paper 'Anti-mycobacterial therapy in Crohn's disease heals mucosa with longitudinal scars') and is the most appropriate treatment for CD. It might be different in the USA. Perhaps your doctor would be prepared to prescribe the antibiotics?
Posted 11/7/2009 9:21 PM (GMT 0)
Glad you enjoyed the videos jpnutritionfirst.

There is an association. Meta-analyses have demonstrated this.

Is the association causative? Other data also suggests that it is. Although, at this time, there is no way of objectively predicting what percentage of CD patients have their CD caused by MAP. Some speculate 30-40%, whereas others speculate as high as 90-95%.

Check out Carol Nacy's presentation from the ICP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And all the other videos if you have the time.

-David

ps Great to see in your signature that your son is currently med free EMom!!!!
Posted 11/7/2009 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
If anyone else has other videos, please share. This video was really nice to hear.
Posted 11/7/2009 9:55 PM (GMT 0)
The MAP protocol has a high rate of relapse and taking antibiotics for long periods has serious negative effects on your bowel health. Moreover, there is research showing that in Crohn's and UC there is a defect in the cascade of events that normally results in the elimination of the autoimmune cells that are responsible for the disease. The defect is slightly different in Crohn's versus Ulcerative Colitis - one happens just a step in the process after the other, but in the same process. You may need to register with the site to view the article, but after registration, the article can be viewed here: http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/53/11/1556
Posted 11/26/2009 1:52 PM (GMT 0)
I've made a small compilation of science papers avaliable for download that are connected with MAP and Crohns. Here's the list:
1. Does Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis cause Crohn’s disease?2. Severe recurrent Crohn’s disease of ileocolonic anastomosis and antimicrobial (antimycobacterial) therapy
3. Resu...lts of Multiple Diagnostic Tests for Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis in Patients with Inflammatory Bowel Disease and in Controls
4. Anti-mycobacterial therapy in Crohn’s disease heals mucosa with longitudinal scars
5. Treatment of severe Crohn's disease using antimycobacterial triple therapy - approaching a cure?
6. Antimycobacterial Therapy in Crohn’s Disease: Game Over?

http://www.fileshost.com/download.php?id=06D8728B1 (you can download it here)

 

2 more links

http://www.liv.ac.uk/news/press_releases/2007/12/crohns-disease.htm
http://www.ibduk.com/latest-in-battle-against-map-in-crohns.html

 

 

 

 

Posted 4/8/2010 1:10 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, I've seen these videos and read alot about MAP and RMAT therapy.It seems to be pretty convincing evidence. I took my 14 year old daughter yesterday to see her GI because of a flare and I went armed with print outs from the internet about this. I think it makes sense and feel like there is enough successes and proof that it can work. But her GI said he did research many years ago about it and it doesn't work. He also said it was risky to be on antibiotics for so long as it could make the gut worst. Then he suggested to think about Hookworm therapy if anything at all. I am willing to try anything like this, but feel more convinced about the RMAT therapy. I will try to discuss more with him next month in follow up visit.
✚ New Topic locked