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Flagyl and Hairy Tongue -- Part II

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Posted 4/12/2013 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I bought one of the best probiotic tablets available and used it day in day out, the result was a big nothing.

In fact, I personally do not believe it is possible to get rid of the hairy growth by changing your diet from the wrong one to the right one.

My guess is, you can keep your tongue safe by having the correct diet ONLY IF YOU ALREADY DO NOT HAVE ANY HAIRY GROWTH on your tongue. But once you have had the bad luck of growing hair there (such as after using Flagyl) then it's a whole different thing. The hairs do not even care if you scrape them with a razor. They are that strong, persistent and deeply founded. I guess you have to find a way to kill them first and once you can do that (heaven knows how) it's a good idea that you stick to the greens, probiotics, alkaline foods, less sugar etc.

God how i hate the day that i got Flagyl into my mouth and got myself into this never ending mess..
Posted 4/12/2013 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
@ Healing_Ways

You said that when you see improvements, you mean the condition not growing worse, does that mean that your papillae are not getting shorter but at the same time not growing?

Also, do you guys have persistent bad breath? that is my only concern about hairy tongue cause the only symptoms of it is bad breath. What scares me is that i've only come across people talking about how they have hairy tongue but i've yet to come across someone that has said that they've gotten it and gotten rid of it. I stopped brushing and scraping my tongue and only brush my teeth and apply zorac on my tongue.. hopefully this works.
Posted 4/12/2013 3:36 PM (GMT 0)

FThisCondition said...
@ Healing_Ways

You said that when you see improvements, you mean the condition not growing worse, does that mean that your papillae are not getting shorter but at the same time not growing?

Also, do you guys have persistent bad breath? that is my only concern about hairy tongue cause the only symptoms of it is bad breath. What scares me is that i've only come across people talking about how they have hairy tongue but i've yet to come across someone that has said that they've gotten it and gotten rid of it. I stopped brushing and scraping my tongue and only brush my teeth and apply zorac on my tongue.. hopefully this works.

The condition is no longer getting worse but since using the gel, it has slowly been getting better. First of all I noticed several fissures in my tongue (that I think were caused by brushing) began to fade after a few days and I just looked now and all have gone apart from the deepest one which has also improved.

The 'hairs' have thinned a lot but much more towards the front than the back. Most of the 'hairs' are a lot shorter now. However, progress is very slow. I guess it depends on severity of ones issue.

I no longer brush the tongue and try to avoid scraping when ever I can. Concerning your worries about breath, I recommend Dentyl PH but not to be used too often and only if you really need to. This is different to most mouth washes due to its oil base.

I think sometimes you will need to scrape the tongue to reduce the likelihood of breath issues though. Chewing lots of sugar free gum has been mentioned too. Eating lots of good foods will help breath too because it will have less for bacteria to feed on, less sugars and vsc's I think.
Posted 4/13/2013 2:19 PM (GMT 0)
Seeing you guys talking about bad breath, I never had bad breath at any stage. Even when I first discovered the situation (which was a thick layer of hair and sticky white cheesy stuff on it) I had no bad breath.

Bad breath should be the icing on the cake I'd say. Not a good feature.
Posted 4/13/2013 2:28 PM (GMT 0)
Forgot to note this.

Best thing against bad breath is liquid chlorophyll which has lately become one of the most fashionable items of the healthy diet world, so to speak.

I did purchase a bottle of it, not because of bad breath but because it is said to cleanse the body, particularly the bowels, incredibly efficiently.

On the bottle, it said "use not more than one tea spoonful a day inside a drink or just water"... Being the smarty pants I am, I drank something like 1/10 of a normal drinking glass in a matter of 12 hours or so.

And guess what ! Next morning, I started the greatest bout of diarrhea which lasted for 4 days, non-stop, and I ended up not being able to go to work and always staying home because the moment I moved or had anything to eat or drink, i would explode instantly.

The bottom line is, liquid chlorophyll is a powerful tool both for the insides of a man, and for the purpose of de-bacterialising the mouth or taking the bad breath away. But you should be very very very careful how much you consume.

For those who can be always in control, I definitley advise buying it. Mine, i threw it away in anger because I had to use 3 different other drugs to reverse the diarrhea. Yes, it was definitely my fault but I was disappointed anyway.

nick
Posted 4/15/2013 1:04 PM (GMT 0)
@Nick987

I agree, chlorophyll is great for that and it also acts as an internal deodorizer. The green food supplements I use contain chlorophyll and some have mentioned a mild effect similar to the one you mentioned (regularity) as well.

However, I think it is better to have the natural source of food that contains it rather than alone but that's my theory. I might still give the liquid chlorophyll a try some time, which brand did you buy and was it organic.?

Some one who I recommended the 'Garden Of Life Perfect Food Super Green Formula Caplets' to reported better breath amongst increase in energy etc. A lot of bad breath is partly due to an acidic diet, too many sugars and unnatural foods or lack of vegetables and good stuff.

By the way, I am noticing further progress with the HT now, the area at the front of the tongue that was showing the most progress seems to be moving further back. It is as if the thinning of the front is slowly moving backward with the same happening. I would estimate that it would take more than a total of 3 months in my case but maybe it would have been shorter if I had stopped scraping and brushing sooner.

Concerning the advice not to brush or scrape the tongue, I think sometimes it can be beneficial to very gently scrape since sometimes not doing so could make matters worse. That's just my opinion though and I think it should definitely be avoided when ever possible. However, if there is a huge build up or something then I think it would be worse to leave it like that as opposed to a gentle scraping.

Post Edited (Healing_Ways) : 4/15/2013 10:16:14 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/15/2013 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
It's interesting that you guys say that you haven't had bad breath while having a hairy tongue because all the research and everything that i've done on the internet suggest that one of the main and only symptoms of HT (besides the look of it) is bad breath. I mean it only makes sense as elongated papillae (mainly towards the back of the tongue) create fissures that trap bacteria and foot debris and everything else in between. and I don't literally have hairs growing as i've seen some of the pictures of hairy tongue, i just had the elongated papillae (specially in the dorsum of my tongue). I think it's becuase i am in the early stages of it but i guess you guys are very lucky of not having the bad breath situation as most of the people complain about that as a symptom of HT. I have stopped brushing and scraping my tongue also jsut last week and simply brush my teeth and apply zorac. I will give liquid chlorophyll a try and see if that works but man consider urself lucky if u have HT and dont have consistent bad breath cause most of the time when i'm around people i dont even talk or open my mouth becuase of that. Its been a month-ish since i've been using zorac and i've only seen a little progess, but progress indeed. I really dont care about how it looks just want this bad breath to go away!
Posted 4/15/2013 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
Also, I think it would help all of us if we posted pictures of our tongues to see how good/bad our conditions are and if we infact are on the same page with this condition. It would also help us understand where we all stand with our own condition when we look at someone elses and compare them with ur own so we know where exactly we stand and if it looks similar or completely different. What do you guys think?
Posted 4/15/2013 7:09 PM (GMT 0)
Sending pictures seem like a brilliant idea indeed. Question is how to take the pictures. One of the doctors used a special camera back a while ago but she has the pictures. I don't want to see her face again because she is known to be the top mouth specialist in Sydney and charged me a lot of money when I went there but did do "nothing" for me despite my calls back and etc.
To take the pciture, even if I can manage, I have to wait approx 2 weeks for the hairs to grow and then do it. I am not so sure if I can do all this but it will be surely beneficial for all of us if we could take proper pictures and their worst (and best).
Will try sometime and let you know. Hopefully. Can't guarantee though like I said.
Posted 4/15/2013 7:12 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry forgot to address the chlorophyll part.
Yeah the shop I got mine from is a well known organic only shop.can't remember the brand now but there are a lot of shananigans going on in the organic food stuff as you know. I believe a good 60-70 percent of all organic food these shops sell are actually "not" organic.
Posted 4/17/2013 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
I usually just stick my tongue out all the way and take a picture with it from my cell phone it shows the dorsum of my tongue coated heavily. I'll see if i can post a pic on the internet and post a link on here..
Posted 4/18/2013 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
http://s291.photobucket.com/user/dhjuniors/media/Pathology%20Exam%204%20slides/P1030742.jpg.html

This is what my tongue looks like. It isn't a pic of my tongue but something similar i found on google image. The back of the tongue has less elongation of the papillae as this person does but the appearance is still the same. You see the fissures in the back is what traps bacteria and everything else and causes bad breath. This is the best example of what I have but less severe and a little less elongation.
Posted 4/18/2013 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah, I know this picture. Have seen it on the web myself too. And yes, mine is pretty much the same.
Does anyone also have some bad sensitivity on their pallet as well though? Because Flagyl first destroyed my pallet and then came my tongue. A strange sensitivity on the pallet has reamoined though.
Anyone the same or near ?
Nick
Posted 4/22/2013 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
hey guys,

so to people that are using zorac.. it's been more than a month since this topic came about and some of us are using this for a while. are you guys in the process of being completely cured cause now i feel like my tongue is used to this and is not making any difference. I'm not seeing any progess that i felt i was getting when i first started using it. Is there anything elsei I should be doing along with taking this product? I use it twice a day (morning and night after brushing). I have stopped brushing my tongue however, I will scrape it every now and then when i get a very thick coating which is just accumulation of stuff. I feel like this isn't working as effectively.
Posted 4/24/2013 12:45 PM (GMT 0)
Flagyl - evil, evil drug.

I took two courses of this and I've had HT for 8 months. Doctors told me there was nothing they could do. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has helped. Until...

I just had my wisdom teeth taken out in surgery, and was prescribed Curam Duo Forte antibiotics (a combination of Amoxycillin and Potassium Clavulanate). I've also been gargling with warm salt water 6 times a day. Imagine my surprise when, nearly a week after surgery when I was finally able to open my mouth, I noticed that the appearance of my tongue had significantly improved. Every day it gets better. I have no idea whether it's the antibiotics or the good old fashioned salt water, but something is working!

Hope it works for the rest of you, the embarrassment and unpleasantness of HT is cruel.

All the best.

Posted 4/24/2013 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

I am not pleased to share this view with you guys but I believe this condition will go away only if it
goes away by itself and only by itself. Yes, it does start with a certain cause (Flagyl) and "this" everybody knows. What nobody knows (or has experienced until today) is "by doing what" does it go away!

A while ago, I read the below on the internet which offers a solution as follows:
(http://hpathy.com/cause-symptoms-treatment/hairy-tongue/)

In severe cases, with very long filiform papillae, topical application of keratolytic agents such as 30-50% trichloroacetic acid or salicylic acid in alcohol or 40% urea in water destroys the elongated papillae and restores the tongue to normal. Trichloroacetic acid is the best and should be applied with care once. It can be reapplied in 1 week’s time if there are remnants of the elongated papillae.
Topical or systemic antifungal do not have place in the treatment of hairy tongue.

I discussed this article with the most reputable mouth health specialist in Sydney but she did not bother to prescribe it so I could get it done at a Compounding Chemist or stuff like that for a trial. Unbelievable!!! ..Not only do the doctors know nothing about many things, they don't even bother to learn or improve themselves, so improve the patients conditions. as well. Yeah, all very disappointing. I feel down when I think there's a chance this can stick with me until the day I die.
nick
Posted 4/24/2013 2:43 PM (GMT 0)

FThisCondition said...
hey guys,

so to people that are using zorac.. it's been more than a month since this topic came about and some of us are using this for a while. are you guys in the process of being completely cured cause now i feel like my tongue is used to this and is not making any difference. I'm not seeing any progess that i felt i was getting when i first started using it. Is there anything elsei I should be doing along with taking this product? I use it twice a day (morning and night after brushing). I have stopped brushing my tongue however, I will scrape it every now and then when i get a very thick coating which is just accumulation of stuff. I feel like this isn't working as effectively.

After some months use, I was thinking the same thing. At first there was a very noticeable improvement but then lately, its not really any different. I believe those who said it was a cure were just excited about early progress.

I have an appointment to see Doctor in a few weeks but I am not expecting much. If he even mentions the word thrush I will be very disappointed. That seems to be a very common and inaccurate diagnosis by those who haven't taken the time to inform themselves. I do also agree that the post that mentioned the antibiotics and the dental work was just a mere coincidence. it probably just went away on its own and happened to do so at that particular point in time.
Posted 4/24/2013 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
But you know what.. I still have all 4 of my wisdom teeth and i just recently contacted my dentist about removing them and he is to contact me back soon however, i did read somewhere online where some guy had this condition but when he removed his wisdom teeth, his condition was gone. This may be due to the bacteria that has accrued and food debris in the socket of your wisdom teeth are helping the bacteria in the tongue. Another thing is that a lot of people say that antibiotics can make this condition worse. I think that is only the case IF antibiotic actually caused this. I know most of you took flagyl which is an antibiotic to get this condition but I'm not sure how I got this and it was def. not through antibiotics. I'm soon going to remove my wisdom teeth and i hope it gets better like Erica.
Posted 6/12/2013 6:04 AM (GMT 0)
Hello guys!

Long time. any news on anything? any new products you've tried and see improvement? Maybe this thing is so persistent that it only goes away by itself.. i've had it for almost 2 years now with no sign of any progression.. I remember talking to my ENT doctor and i told him that i'm completely fed up with this and i'll do anything and try anything to find a cure. He advised me maybe modern medicine isn't the right cure and i should try eastern medicine.. So... I got an appointment with this doctor in downtown LA and he's a doctor for chinese medicine and i contacted him through their website and he told me that this hairy tongue condition, they refer to as a "raised tongue" and is curable because there is a problem with the digestive system. Only thing is, its expensive and your insurance wont cover. He said he would give me some chinese herbal tea.. My appointment is in 2 weeks or so I believe. If you guys are interested i can post updates.
Posted 6/12/2013 12:20 PM (GMT 0)
@ FThisCondition

I am definitely interested in any updates and details about anything you try that helps or the names of what you try.

Edit: I have been trying out Iodine supplementation at the moment and have been on this for a few weeks. It is difficult to say whether the improvement that Ive seen (thinning of raised papillae) is due to this or just coincidence though. However, a host of other issues have vanished, even down to warmer body temperature, no more cold feet, more energy, vanishing scars and more.

If anyone wants more information on this, don't go any further until you have read this http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread45205.html

Also, it is advised to take the following vitamins / minerals along with the Iodine:

Selenium (200mcg) or Brazil Nut
· 400 mg magnesium best=glycinate (or citrate or malate) (not magnesium oxide )
· Vitamin C - 3,000 mg (I take 1000mg)
· Vitamins - 100mg B2, 500mg B3 (niacin NOT niacinamide) (I tried 50mg but don't need them it seems)
· Unrefined Celtic Sea Salt ½ tsp (NOT table salt !)
- - - If the sea salt is pure white, it is not acceptable (minerals have been stripped)
Every one is required to help detox. Especially the B2 & B3, not found in typical multi-vitamins.

This is for your information only, Iodine supplementation can cause a lot of problems mostly due to its detox and displacement of toxins and heavy metals in the body. I experienced a few detox symptoms that went away after a day or two and I am only using a weak 3% strength and was at 1 drop a day. People with current thyroid problems should be very wary as well. Some have said that Iodine solved their digestive problems as well so that could be useful since Ive always believed the tongue problem is digestion related. If anyone does try this, I advise you go very slowly and start using a 2% or 3% and 1 drop. Some people who jumped to high doses had severe detox and major bloating (toxins stored in body fat apparently).

Post Edited (Healing_Ways) : 6/12/2013 8:58:28 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/12/2013 9:24 PM (GMT 0)

Nick987 said...
Well, I bought one of the best probiotic tablets available and used it day in day out, the result was a big nothing.

In fact, I personally do not believe it is possible to get rid of the hairy growth by changing your diet from the wrong one to the right one.

My guess is, you can keep your tongue safe by having the correct diet ONLY IF YOU ALREADY DO NOT HAVE ANY HAIRY GROWTH on your tongue. But once you have had the bad luck of growing hair there (such as after using Flagyl) then it's a whole different thing. The hairs do not even care if you scrape them with a razor. They are that strong, persistent and deeply founded. I guess you have to find a way to kill them first and once you can do that (heaven knows how) it's a good idea that you stick to the greens, probiotics, alkaline foods, less sugar etc.

God how i hate the day that i got Flagyl into my mouth and got myself into this never ending mess..

Nick, I'm living proof that it's possible to heal this problem via eating a diet that minimizes acidity in the body and promotes optimum gut health. In fact, other than probiotics, I used only diet to get rid of this problem, and yes my tongue looked like yours (that photo to which you linked) for a couple years. It's my understanding that the problem stems from a body chemistry issue. i.e. Hairy Tongue is a symptom of an unhealthy climate in the gut. As such, treating the mouth alone can't get the job done, or can't provide long term success. It's treating a symptom and not the source of the problem.

Like you, Nick, my problem showed up after antibiotic use. It seems the antibiotic was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of my gut health. I've always been fastidious in my oral hygiene, so I couldn't understand why I was having this problem and why I couldn't "kill" it. Hard core mouth washes, rinses, brushing, etc. made no difference. But I lucked out when I had to change GP's due to a move, and ended up with one who'd had success treating this problem. She told me HT was the result of an internal problem and that I'd have to change my body chemistry to get rid of it. I did and and it worked, thank heaven.
Posted 6/12/2013 9:43 PM (GMT 0)
BTW, I used probiotics after my course of antibiotics, because I knew that antibiotics kill off good bacteria with the bad. But as you also experienced, it did nothing on it's own. (I didn't take the probiotics with the expectation it would help the HT, as I knew nothing of HT at the time, except that my tongue had gotten ugly and problematic.) Probiotics alone can't change body chemistry if one is consuming a diet that creates a bad internal climate.
Posted 6/12/2013 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
@ 23healthy

What exactly did you do in your diet? what did you eat and drink on a daily basis that cured your tongue?
Posted 6/12/2013 10:54 PM (GMT 0)
My doc isn't sure if HT is the result of persistent and specific bacteria that targets the tongue as a result of poor body chemistry or if the tongue tissue is irritated and altered by the body chemistry being off (and the bad breath some experience stems from the compromised tongue being more susceptible to bacteria growth). Either way, addressing the underlying problem is key.
Posted 6/12/2013 10:57 PM (GMT 0)
Healing_Ways, just saw your post. I'm happy to provide details when I have a moment later tonight or tomorrow morning. Sorry I can't continue right now.
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