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Posted Yesterday 1:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Guys

I have some concerns about existing elemental shakes and am trying to make my own elemental shake. Could somebody kindly answer the following questions.

1.  Maltodextrin is a good carb source however I understand it feed candida and other things.  Would it feed something like h.pylori aswell or not?

2.  I notice some other products get their carbs from thing like rice syrup solids(GI Sustain) and Dried Glucose Syrup(Eelemental 028), btw these are UK products.  Do these ingredients feed h pylori just as bad as the maltodextrin?

3.  Can anybody recommend a replacement for maltodextrin if it needs to be replace?

Thanks

[* Just gave the thread a Subject title - C2]

Post Edited By Moderator (CrohnieToo) : 12/2/2013 5:57:55 PM (GMT-7)

Posted Yesterday 3:14 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Chlorinated,

Good questions really. Not entirely simple.

A few basic bits of information:

Yeasts (such as Candida) and bacteria (such as H. Pylori) use broken down carbohydrates as fuel. They don't care much where the carbohydrates come from. They also use many other nutrient sources.
H. Pylori lives in the highly acidic environment of stomach, whereas Candida Albicans requires the less acidic environment of the lower intestines. Generally speaking, a sufficient balance and quantity of resident bacteria controls outbreaks of either.

Carbohydrates are made of glucose units, of varying configurations.

Maltodextrin contains chains of glucose molecules, and is known as an oligosaccharide.
Rice syrup solids contain glucose and maltose (another glucose configuration.)

All of these carbohydrates (including glucose) are made by using enzymes to break down starch. The starch itself is derived from several different grain sources.

I tend to favor the use of glucose in elemental products as there is arguably less digestion involved, which is the point of elemental diets.

If there are current issues with Candida or H Pylori, it's best to address them before starting the elemental diet.

The elemental diet is used to give your guts a rest, and to possibly induce remission. It designed to leave almost no residue for the lower intestines.
The elemental diet can also be very useful for Crohns patients who are nutritionally deficient, but is not meant as a long term diet.

Trying to find one that tastes ok is important if you are to tolerate them! You may need to taste a few first...

good luck.
Posted Today 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for your reply.

The problem with my current diet(basically SCD) Is that due to my leaky gut I (apparently) have a lot of fat and carbs(green vegetables) putrificating in the colon daily.  Apparently this feed the h.pylori aswell?  Is this true and if so would it be wiser to stay on my current diet(which feeds the h,pylori) and try to clear it or would it be wiser to go for the elemental where the carb component would also feed the h.pylori.  Which would be the better diet considering I want to clear the h pylori and that I will take antibacterials to clear it.


Btw, regarding h pylori does fructose feed it?  From your answer I am guessing that any elemental carbohydrate e.g. fructose, glucose, maltodextrin etc will feed h .pylori?

Posted 12/3/2013 1:54 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Chlorinated,

Have you been diagnosed with H. Pylori infection and resulting gastritis? If so, do you know where in the stomach the colony exists (as this affects stomach acidity issues) ?

If you have a legitimate infection in your stomach which is causing symptoms then you will need antibiotic therapy. Remember, H. Pylori exists in the stomach, and the bacteria feed directly from substances that are in the stomach (not from any residue that may be found several metres away in the large bowel.)

If you have no actual diagnosis of H. Pylori, then do not fret about eradicating this bacteria from your stomach. Nearly half of all humans carry this bacteria, without incidence.


As far as your diet goes, you may benefit from moving to a low residue and easily digested food approach, if you wish to minimize the amount of chyme that reaches your colon.
You may also have motility issues (which are common in people with IBD.) The number of bowel movements and the consistency of your stool will give clues to this.

These are all very complex issues with a multitude of possible approaches. I find people tinker unwisely with their systems, without properly grasping the detailed mechanics involved. Altering one aspect can affect many others.

It is common for 'well meaning' people to give you confusing and inaccurate information about your digestive system. Make sure, when seeking advice, that the people you ask are well educated in IBD, and in the functioning of the bowel, before following any suggestions you may get.

Please take care.
Posted 12/3/2013 1:40 PM (GMT 0)
Ambling, Yes I have also been diagnosed with h pylori and resulting gastritis.

You said "H. Pylori exists in the stomach, and the bacteria feed directly from substances that are in the stomach (not from any residue that may be found several metres away in the large bowel.)" but at the same time you said   "As far as your diet goes, you may benefit from moving to a low residue and easily digested food approach, if you wish to minimize the amount of chyme that reaches your colon."  Doesn't that second point mean the residue in the colon(not stomach) will affect the bacteria?

In any case, I have h pylori and will try to eradicate with natural therapies and if that fails I will use antibiotics.  The question is, do I take the elemental now(sugar goes in colon feeding h pylori) or solid foods?  Which do you think is better.  Based on your answer I think you are saying it doesn't matter if you have a lot of food putrificating in your colon as it's what's in the stomach that feeds h pylori and the stomach always clears itself out so no need to worry there.  Not sure if you are saying solid food or elemental considering how each may feed h pylori.

Thanks

Posted 12/3/2013 9:52 PM (GMT 0)
May I ask how you were diagnosed with H. Pylori?
My concern is that an unqualified person has told you that you have this.

The elemental diet is designed for your Crohn's Disease. The advice about a low residue (easily digested) diet related to your issue with colonic putrefaction, and has nothing to do with the stomach bacteria, H Pylori.
Antibiotic therapy usually eliminates H Pylori in less than14 days. A specific diet during that time is generally not necessary, unless there are severe peptic ulcers involved.

I would concentrate on a diet for the Crohns.

Good luck.
Posted 12/4/2013 11:56 PM (GMT 0)
I have been diagnosed by a gastroenterologist with the national health service. Yes the standard treatment is to have antibiotics for 2 weeks however I have not yet for the following reasons:

1. I would like to try alternative therapies first(as they have worked for me in the past). I would like to try dgl and mastic gum and if they fail then take the antibiotics. Alternative therapy treatment usually is 2 months.

2. I understand even if you take antibiotics, research has shown that foods like wheat can create pockets which allow the h.pylori to hide and so the therapy fails. Due to unbelievable amount of sensitivities I currently eat wheat and chocolate(don't ask how this came to be) however I am worried the wheat and chocolate will feed the bacteria and prevent it cause it to grow. This is why I need to sort the diet out somewhat prior to taking alternative treatment or antibiotics. Believe it or not I don't have bowel movements for the last few months. My alternative doctor said I have leaky gut, large food molecules are passing through gut wall and remainder is putrificating in the colon. However once h pylori/gastritis has gone I can easily take betaine hcl to increase digestion levels.

This is why I need to have a diet that won't counter the affects of the anti bacterial therapy weather it be wheat/sugar in the diet or sugar from the elemental. I really am quite ill and ideally want a diet other then wheat, chocolate and protein at the moment.

Thanks

This
Posted 12/5/2013 2:05 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,

You have a difficult path indeed. I wish you good luck with the dgl, mastic gum, vitamin C etc.
I do understand your reluctance to take the antibiotic therapy, with the risk of yeast overgrowth as a possible side effect. Your plan to try the alternative treatments first, seems sound.

I believe the issue with wheat, which you bring up, is the gluten content. Some people have an inflammatory reaction to this protein. If you do go onto the elemental (or other) nutrition drinks you will not have that problem, as they are generally gluten (and lactose) free. You do seem to tolerate wheat though.

Adequate nutrition is vital, and in your case (with the limited foods you are able to consume, and the issues with poor digestion) I would definitely consider supplementing with liquid feeds, including bone broths, and certain vegetable soups. It will depend upon your nutritional status (weight loss and vit./min. deficiencies) and your response and tolerance to various foods, which (as you know) is very individual. You need to absorb what you eat.

(You mentioned betaine HCL, which is only useful for protein digestion if the parietal cells of the stomach are not secreting a sufficient amount of pepsin. Fats and carbs use other enzymes. Wait and see how you are after treatment.)

All the best.
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