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Posted 5/26/2008 4:37 PM (GMT 0)
I first read about it in a book... and... it's one of the reasons why I'm so weary about trying 'natural' and alternative methods to treating Crohn's disease...

Anyway, I was reading an article on MSN... I just browse articles and read whatever is interesting to me... But... just thought I'd share...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24763360?GT1=43001

If you scroll down a ways, you can read the section about how natural doesn't always mean safe...

I am kind of relieved to see, though... That things might change in 2010.... *Big might, though... Lobbyists might try to get that pushed back... not uncommon for that kind of thing to happen...*

... Just think it's interesting that so many people tend to harp on how corrupted pharmaceutical companies and everything are... ya know? I'm not saying pharmaceutical companies aren't corrupt... but...

All those other companies out there certainly aren't angelic... especially when you read something like this... Tsk, tsk....
Posted 5/26/2008 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
I use natural, because I have no other options, I'm either allergic to or non-responsive to traditional oral RX and I must say I'm quite pleased...even though I'm not in full remission (I doubt I would have gotten there even on oral RX) I'm doing pretty good, and no side-effects, if anything, by taking natural supplements the offer bonuses, healthy shiny hair and nails. Of course, what works for some doesn't work for all and often it's a combination of things that work better than just one.

I use bee propolis, probiotics, omegas 3-6-9, fibre supplements, vitamins B12, A, C-calcium ascorbate and chamomile tea, all daily...and it's alot cheaper taking all of the above mentioned compared to one script of asacol (which I'm severely allergic to BTW).

:)
Posted 5/26/2008 6:52 PM (GMT 0)
Not saying that using natural is bad... *Neither is the article* I mean... It's good there's options and everything.... especially for a case like yours, PB4...


I just wish the natural stuff had to go through the same treatment as the pharmaceutical stuff.... It's downright silly that 'natural' gets to bypass research into their safety and effectiveness.... //-_-\\'
Posted 5/26/2008 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Here in Canada they are looking at changing that from my understanding and I think it's mostly come about because of all the rave about the benefits of probiotics...even coca-cola is going to put Stevia (a natural sweetner) in their product rather than sugar...so that's a big step and that means it had to go through rigerous approval so finally they're on their way with naturals from my understanding.

There's pros and cons to everything but from my experiances I've had some success with naturals compared to nothing but issues with oral RX and I'm not knocking oral RX because I know many have their lives back (at a price I'm sure) because of them and there have been those with issues taking naturals too, you have to do your research regardless which route is taken.

:)
Posted 5/26/2008 9:30 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah... Research is important..... *Always look at what it is that my medicines do... and what side effects they could cause me to have* But that prednisone, man... It has so many side effects... I'm still learning about all the different things it can cause.... Man... //-_-\\'...

But I think the article makes a good point about consumers... just based on my own experience with people who live around me...

There's this tendency to think that 'natural' means 'safe'... and people go in buying things without really doing that much research.... just hearing things from their friends is usually enough to convince them that a product works and won't hurt them...

You don't really get that with pharmaceuticals because people are so paranoid about pharmaceuticals, anyway.... *I know I used to be... still am to some extent, too... such paranoia is healthy, though. I mean, you really gotta pay attention to what you're putting in your body, I think...*

And again.... as I said.... It's very stupid that companies that sell these natural products... be they supplements or herbs... or whatever else.... aren't put under as much scrutiny as they should be. It's still people putting things in their body that will have an effect or multiple effects on them.... good and/or bad...

And that they were allowed to get away with pushing an act like the Dietary Health and Supplement Education Act through congress and whatnot.... and got away with it.... and there aren't very many outraged people about it. *Some people have really been harmed by 'natural' products that turned out to be really dangerous....*

Post Edited By Moderator (Ides) : 5/27/2008 6:08:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/26/2008 10:00 PM (GMT 0)
Personally, I like that there are some options out there that are not FDA regulated. While I agree it is scary that I am taking things without knowing what the long term side effects are, I enjoy having options that are available immediatly and not subject to 7+ years of clinical trials. But I do agree there should be more publicity so people taking "natural" options are aware that they are their own guinea pigs.
Posted 5/26/2008 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
And that the companies that push 'natural' stuff seem to be more concerned with selling their product.... not the health and safety of the people they're selling their product to...
Posted 5/27/2008 6:27 AM (GMT 0)

FREEDOM!! FREEDOM!!

First of all, the FDA hasn't done a very good job of determining what's safe in pharmaceuticals:  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/washington/06patch.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I have little hope that they will do any better in this arena.

Secondly, Celey, what "natural" products, exactly, have compromised the health and safety of the people they're selling their product to? 

Posted 5/27/2008 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
Well, there have been several over the years that have caused problems for people.... Everything from the natural supplements to herbs (and the various products made with herbs)...

Know anything about blue-green algae? That was quite a while back...

But more recently.... in the 2000s..... Have you ever heard of.... a black salve treatment used for people with cancer? A natural remedy.... I think it has like.... bloodroot in it or something...

It has caused some people to lose their nose. Burned it off, in fact.... *Don't know the extent of the number of victims, but it must have been widespread enough because government agencies have since acted in getting this product removed from the market*

Obviously, it's too late for the people who have had their noses burned off, though.

Also.... I'm pretty sure there are sites out there that can tell you some of the side effects that occur through the use of natural herbs....

St. John's wort has side effects, for instance... and also, it can interact with a lot of different medicines.... Not sure how much press that has received, but I think it has received some...

Post Edited By Moderator (Ides) : 5/27/2008 6:09:07 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/28/2008 12:29 AM (GMT 0)
Oh! Sorry! *I didn't notice I was doing that* Thanks for the heads up... I'll try to be more careful next time...:)
Posted 5/28/2008 1:22 AM (GMT 0)

Celey, I don't find your list of "natural" medicines that caused harm credible.  In fact, never heard of the black salve, nor any problems with blue-green algae.

Greatly doubt monitoring will do anything helpful.  And it may restrict our use of quite beneficial nutriceuticals.

Posted 5/28/2008 2:05 AM (GMT 0)
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar.html

It cites its sources, too... at the bottom, regarding the black salve (bloodroot)....

As for problems with blue-green algae, the FDA has apparently only 46 reported adverse events to blue-green algae... *I thought I had read that people were really having problems with blue-green algae, but I'm having trouble finding information, so I'm guessing I got something mixed up* but in general, the claims blue-green algae makes have been proven to be... very questionable... (such as it having some kind of good protein source... it has less protein than a slice of bread...)

Also... it's toxic. It contains microcystins... can have very bad effects on the liver...

Anyway... I'm not saying the FDA is perfect.... I'm just saying I get tired of people harping on it and pharmaceutical companies all the time when the natural companies can be just as horrible...

And I think monitoring would only restrict people's use of the non-beneficial, and in fact probably very harmful, nutriceuticals that are available... that are not tested for safety or quality.... or effectiveness...
Posted 5/28/2008 2:29 AM (GMT 0)
There are risks with anything you put in your body. But let us not forget why the FDA was created, rat meat in breakfast sausage and other gross things. Nothing is perfect and so they try and make it as safe as possible.

While certain types of seaweed has an antinflamitory effect (hence snake oil once did work, because the sea snakes ate the seaweed, which also might be the source of the blue/green algae theory) the problem is the shear amount necessary to reach a theraputic level is not practical (like more than a gallon a day).
Posted 5/28/2008 2:32 AM (GMT 0)
Yes.... I think everyone should make it a point to read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair before they talk about how bad the FDA is.... smile
Posted 5/28/2008 3:24 AM (GMT 0)
Just like with anything, there are good and bad naturals...apparently the bee propolis that I take put one guy into full remission with his crohns, it's the reason I tried it...it's not geared towards aiding crohns specifically therefore, there's no hype behind it saying it's a cure for crohns, it's simply a natural anti-inflammatory which according to my GI (a lead researcher for crohns and colitis in Canada) is also an excellent source of dietary supplementation for IBDers who do not get enough nutrients via food alone.
smile
Posted 5/28/2008 3:45 AM (GMT 0)
Yeah... I really think there are some natural products that could be very helpful and everything... like probiotics, for instance (it is so good that there is research being done with the probiotics...)...

But... Here's my question...

People take these products... because they want to stay healthy... or get healthy... or benefit from these products in some way...

So, why SHOULDN'T the safety and effectiveness of these products be scrutinized? This is the health and well-being of real living people we're talking about here. Don't we deserve to be aware of EXACTLY what these products do to our bodies... just like how we're aware of what the pharmaceuticals can do to our bodies?
Posted 5/28/2008 4:51 AM (GMT 0)
Maybe it's because then it would be well known that between the 2, naturals and RX, that naturals are much better all around for many things (not necessarily all) and it would put alot of pharmaceuticals out of business or set the bar too high for them...who knows...personally I don't trust the FDA anyways.

I'll say this though...Stevia (a natural sweetner that isn't dangerous the way processed/refined sugar is) is finally being used to sweeten coca-cola...it doens't rot or cause sugar rushes, or any of the other terrible things that sugar does... it's all natural and even apparently good for you...look how long the plant has been around and finally coca-cola has gotten the approval to put it in their product...people are just slow...minded. LOL!

:)
Posted 5/28/2008 5:05 AM (GMT 0)
*lol* Didn't you read anything? It's not the FDA's fault that the naturals aren't being scrutinized....

It's because of the natural product companies themselves that the natural products aren't scrutinized. Why do you think that is, hmm? :)
Posted 5/28/2008 5:15 AM (GMT 0)
Honestly, I find it all very frustrating and confusing...this is an interestin link worth a read though...

http://www.naturalproductsassoc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ic_supplement_facts

:)

Posted 5/28/2008 5:27 AM (GMT 0)
Well.... I suppose my source couldn't be said it was completely unbiased... but....

Pb4... There's a place to shop on that website. What do you think they're selling? //^_^\\'...
Posted 5/28/2008 5:48 AM (GMT 0)
Maybe this one is more to your liking...

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-savvy.html
Posted 5/28/2008 6:27 AM (GMT 0)
Yep... That was my understanding of it...

You know what it means? It means the FDA has to wait until the products have killed people before they can say its unsafe... *And the bad part it is, these products may or may not have had any good effects in the first place because they were not scrutinized before they were put on the market... So, it's like risking death for nothing, sometimes...*

And also... There's a lot of leniency on exactly what makes an 'accurate and truthful' label... As the first site you posted mentioned... natural products can say things like 'Calcium builds strong bones' because that is true... but they can't say that their product can 'cure osteoporosis' without scientific proof...

However, it can be marketed in such a way that it would give people the impression that it should be used to treat and/or possibly cure their osteoporosis... and the FDA can't do anything about it. It's a loophole. And the natural companies try to exploit that loophole to the furthest extent that they can...

Sometimes, they push it too far, and the FDA is able to step in... but then, usually they can just change the wording on their products... the FDA backs off... and people go on thinking everything is still dandy.
Posted 5/28/2008 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
Have you seen how many RX the FDA has approved that have killed people, made them blind and other horrible things? So honestly in my opinion, the FDA is a joke anyways...I wouldn't be wasting my time worrying about naturals being scrutinized for safety by the FDA, they don't even honestly do that for the RX in which they are suppose to.

:)
Posted 5/28/2008 6:13 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah... I have seen.... You hear it all over the news when it happens.

Something goes on with a natural product, though... You don't hear about it as much. *Like with that black salve-bloodroot stuff...*

However, considering how many Rx there actually are... I think the FDA is doing a pretty darn good job keeping track of things. Maybe if they had more manpower, things wouldn't slip by like that.

... But of course.... Everyone thinks the FDA is evil, so...

*Shrugs*
Posted 5/28/2008 6:31 PM (GMT 0)
LOL, to each their own, I'm not one for false security, life is full of risks there are no guarantees no matter what you do or don't, it's kinda unrealistic to think there is someone looking out for you, no one is doing that but yourself.
smile
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