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Diets other than SCD for Crohn's

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Posted 4/6/2013 6:18 PM (GMT 0)
I've had Crohn's/Colitis for 45 years and I have been on a roller coaster of symptoms and drugs over this time. I finally decided that I wanted to try some diet although my GI said my disease was non related to specific foods and that I should just avoid my trigger foods. I thought about trying the SCD but realized that it was way too strict for me and that I probably could not stay on such a strict diet very long Also a lot of the foods on there list would be on my trigger list. about 1 month ago I went on a total lactose free-gluten free diet. For the first time since the last time I was on prednisone, I have no diarrhea, bloating, gas or urgency. At first I wan't certain that this was working but, now I am.
Don't get me wrong, its not a cure but my symptoms have definitely eased and become more manageable. I have read elsewhere that in a few studies that about 60 of Crohn's patients have intolerance's to either lactose or gluten or a combination of the two. This may not work for everyone like the medication we are all on, but it did for me.
Posted 4/7/2013 12:30 AM (GMT 0)
you don't have to follow SCD to a T for it to reduce your symptoms. i have a chicken and egg intolerance and the main things on the diet are chicken broth and eggs. you just have to find things that are on the list that don't bother you. the diet is lactose and gluten free already, so that would be no different for you.
Posted 4/7/2013 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure where you got the impression that SCD main ingredients are chicken broth and eggs but this is not quite correct. SCD is a list of foods that can be tried to see your tolerances. Eggs and chicken broth are on the list and are good choices for many. However, beef broth, fish broth or any bone broth is encouraged. Eggs are in many recipes, both SCD and non SCD, so if you have an egg intolerance, it would impact you the same if you are on SCD or not.
There are tons of folks doing SCD without eggs.
BTW have you tried bone broth that is cooked only for 2 to 4 hours. For some , the length of cooking time determines if they can take it or not. If I am not wrong, something to do with histamines.

Also for most they have to do SCD strictly to see big improvements. The term the diet uses is "fanatical compliance". For many it is only when they move to fanatical compliance they see any improvement is Crohn's symptoms. I was like that. Of course, eating natural food without preservatives, chemicals and the excessive sugars that are in the normal american diet has to be better for your general health. It just might not improve your Crohn's situation.
Healing thoughts
Dave
Posted 4/7/2013 5:55 PM (GMT 0)
dfdavedf, i wasn't being specific enough, obviously. i assumed figman was going to do the intro diet and yes, those foods are on the list.

i didn't know i had an egg or chicken intolerance until i tried the paleo elimination diet... especially since i hadn't eaten eggs/chicken in about 5 years before hand. i knew that SCD wasn't getting rid of my main symptoms for the months i was trying it and then found that this was a big reason. so i do think it's important to listen to your body rather than a list in a book. that list is based on what generally is tolerated by some people. elaine even mentions in the book that if something bothers you and you know it, don't eat it.
Posted 4/8/2013 12:25 PM (GMT 0)
Bananagirl, it seems I misunderstood your note. We are in 100% agreement. The SCD provides a list of ingredients that will promote healing. However, there is nothing required to be eaten and you have to listen to your body to make sure you are only eating things that do not bother you (as you said). I know lots of SCDers and I do not think I know one, including myself, that can eat every legal SCD food.

I think this is one of the toughest parts of the diet. Even when being fanatically compliant, you still have to be on the look out for foods, that you as an individual, are intolerant of (like chicken broth and eggs for you). Also even identifying your tolerances might not be that straight forward. Some try things too early in the healing process. It is bad now but later it is fine. It might be that you can take some but not too much. Others report that it is time of day dependent. As you point out, for SCD to work you have to listen to your body. I am still learning to do that

BTW - I notice that you are SCD/Paleo. I understand SCD, but was wondering what you are doing that makes you Paleo also. I am back on intro due to SIBO diagnosis and always looking for opportunities to learn and embrace a healthier diet.
Healing thoughts
dave
Posted 4/8/2013 2:39 PM (GMT 0)

Figman said...
about 1 month ago I went on a total lactose free-gluten free diet. For the first time since the last time I was on prednisone, I have no diarrhea, bloating, gas or urgency. At first I wan't certain that this was working but, now I am.

Same here except I can tolerate lactose free milk and yogurt. Gluten is the my killer. I don't follow the SCD because there are food triggers for me, such as cruciferous and shellfish, that are perfectly legal under SCD. And there are foods forbidden under SCD that are perfectly fine for me to eat, such as starchy vegetables and non-gluten grains.

I recommend everyone with IBD to keep a food diary. Probably start with gluten and dairy the way you did because those are the usual suspects.
Posted 4/8/2013 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
I finally found a diet that seems to be working for me! I found the SCD diet to be too strict for me too, I know I could never follow it completely because I love food way too much!

I cut out wheat/ gluten, refined sugars, a lot of dairy (but still eating Greek yogurt on occasion and some cheese), and cut way back on any veggies/fruits that have over 2-3 grams of fiber. I am slowly adding back in the veggies/fruits as I start feeling better.

Someone suggested the book, "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes and it has been awesome! The "diet" is very high in protein and is supposed to help reduce inflammation in the body. I still cheat and eat some bad things sometimes, I'm not perfect, but I can definitely tell a difference when eating the way he suggests.
I cheated yesterday and ate some fried alligator and an elephant ear at a cajun festival and had twinges of pain yesterday, so there is a constant reminder I have Crohn's, no matter how well I eat or exercise.
Posted 4/8/2013 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
I believe that there is not one answer re diet and I believe I now understand why.
Each diet does something different and it will work for you (or not) depending on what is the underlying cause of your issues.

For some it is as simple as intolerances. If you eliminate the offending foods then the symptoms go away.
For others it is the bodies inability to process fod maps. For those you need to reduce / eliminate high fod map foods.
For others it is an imbalance in the gut bacteria. For those SCD is a good choice.
Some can not process carbs, so low carb will be very helpful.
There are other diets (like low res, makers,..) that address other issues so the above is not meant to be exhaustive.

I believe that the highest % of folks can have symptom improvement and even remission by understanding triggers and eliminating them but it would not surprise me if there are a small # of folks where food plays no role what so ever. It is my opinion that this is a very small %, but I have little facts to support my opinion, just observations.

From personal experience and observations cause is frequently some mysterious combination of the above. So some how I think you first have to figure out or guess what is the cause. Then test or try an approach and figure out if it is working. Then even if you are doing the right diet for you, you then very frequently need to make the individual tweaks.

I no longer see any one diet as "the answer", but believe a diet can be an accelerator to get to the answer for some. You can start with a diet and make tweaks (using a food diary is a great way to figure this out), or you can start without the framework of a diet and just use the food diary to figure it out.

I have just recently come to the above understanding why there is no single answer re diet. I do however believe there is a best diet for everyone (and the standard american diet (SAD) is not it) and especially for folks with crohn's.

Ultimately I hope we all find a diet that keeps us healthy, physically and mentally and puts us in remission. I just wish the answer was way more straight forward

healing thoughts
dave
Posted 4/9/2013 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
When you break down the SCD diet, the whole concept has to do with eliminating foods that convert into sugar like carb foods, or those foods that have sugar added to them.  This is done in an effort to starve and kill the bad bacteria in your gut that are causing inflammation.  Sugar and carbs are the food source for these bacteria.

  Nothing in the diet says you have to eat all the foods that are legal in the diet, you can pick and choose what foods work best for you.  The real secret to getting this diet to work,  is staying away from the illegal foods like bread and grains, rice, potatoes, starchy foods, sugary drinks, diary, etc.  Like Dave said, the people that have success are the ones that go fanatical and follow it to the absolute letter,,,, just like I did 6 years ago. 

Many people get disappointed after a few weeks because they don't see any changes, but this diet does not work overnight, it takes 2 or 3 or 4 months sometimes before you start seeing results.  I was on it for 4 straight without any cheating before I started to see some changes and my rectal fistulas starting to heal.  By 6 months, one was completely healed up,  and by 8 months the other was healed up.  It has been six years and I have not had one sypmtom or flare since then.  I still follow the diet, but not as fanatical as before.     

The other secret to getting this diet to work is eating a cup or two of "home made yogurt" a day.  Home made yogurt  that is fermented for 24 -30 hours.  Without this yougurt , you have no way to repopulate your gut with good bacteria after starving out the bad bacteria with the SCD diet.  Store bought yougurt will not work because most all have sugar added, and non of the store bought yogurt are fermented long enough to eliminate the lactose, which is food source for the bad bacteria and yeast.   Taking probiotics will not work because to get the equivalent amount of bacteria you get from one cup of yogurt, you would have to take 100 probiotic pills. 

Post Edited (NY-Sooner) : 4/9/2013 1:22:21 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/10/2013 4:18 AM (GMT 0)
Figman,

have you looked at the food list for the GAPS diet? It works on the same premise as SCD but the allowed foods on each stage are a bit different. I wholeheartedly agree with much of what is written on this thread, especially the part about an individual not being able to tolerate ALL the foods on any diet. Today is my 5th day on the GAPS diet and my symptoms are improving. I went gluten free 5 years ago and sugar & yeast free 1 year ago. Saw some improvements back then but nothing like going grain free on the GAPS diet. It took me several years to get to the point where giving up some foods I love were worth it to have my tummy not be in knots all the time.

I hope you decide to try a diet you believe may help you, even if only for a short time. Who knows? And about what your GI says... Keeping a food diary and listening to your body may be the wisest things you can do.

Best wishes!
Posted 4/10/2013 1:05 PM (GMT 0)
to support what ny sooner said, it took 8 months for me to see real improvement on SCD.
(Somehow I missed the intro diet, was eating high carb and a couple of small illegals. )

A phrase I hear by diet folks is "it took a long time to get sick, it will take time to get better"
or the other one i like

God grant me patience, and, dam it, grant it to me NOW!

healing thoughts
dave
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