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Posted 10/8/2008 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
Well this is going to sound crazy, but it seems that a part of my depression is that for some reason I prefer to be sick than healthy. It's just really weird, the last time I had a bad cold, I was so completely miserable, but then when I started to get better, I found myself getting really depressed.

I know that there are people out there that enjoy being sick because they want the attention, but I don't think this is the case with me. No one ever takes care of me or gives me any extra attention when I'm sick.

Back in July I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and a part of me was glad that I have this condition that's never going to get better. I just don't know what is wrong with me, fibro is such a horrible disease, and I'm actually happy with the diagnosis. I'll admit that I'm a bit of a masochist and there are times I like pain, but there's good pain and bad pain, and fibro pain isn't the good kind, so this really doesn't make any sense to me.

Is there anyone here that can relate to how I'm feeling or am I just more insane than most people?
Posted 10/8/2008 11:32 AM (GMT 0)
Kythe,
You may just be reacting to finally understanding your chronic illness... and you need to know that fibro leads to deepening depression because it burns up all of your serotonin. Serotonin is a brain chemical involved with mood, appetite, sleep cycles and pain awareness, among other things. Meds that help you retain serotonin may help you break this feeling. Good luck with this.
Posted 10/8/2008 12:28 PM (GMT 0)

Kythe,

Good Morning.  I could throw out one idea re your enjoying being sick..........if your down and sick, you don't have to face your problems or go out into the world.

You posted "I'll admit that I'm a bit of a masochist and there are times I like pain". May I suggest that you  make an appointment with your personal physician who will help you find a good  mental health practioner.

I am sorry you are having this issue but we are not professionals, we are here to support and care for each other.

Sincerely,

Kitt

Posted 10/8/2008 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
Kythe,

I think that really you are glad that you have a diagnosis, not some mystery illness. That helps when you can put a name to what is troubling you.

I think that you are overly exhausted and having fibro not only gives you the diagnosis, but gives you a reason to rest. I don't think that you are looking for an out as they say. I know that I was having a hard time coping before I found out I had fibro. Then when I got diagnosed, it gave me permission to take it easy. Not that I wanted to, but because I was so tired and sick all of the time. So that is what is probably going on with you. You are just feeling guilty for not feeling good. So give yourself permission to take it slow and easy. Also take things one day at a time. With fibro you kind of have to.

I hope that you have a painfree day. Be good to yourself.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 10/8/2008 2:07 PM (GMT 0)
I dunno - depression makes us numb in a lot of ways - When we're sick, we're actually feeling something and usually that something is distracting us from what usually depresses us. 

I have heard a lot of people say that being sick made them feel human again.  Not really the way to go!!!  tongue   There are better ways to "feel". 

My husband is gone for a week - oddly enough I usually get sick when he's gone.  Surrogate "feeling"?  Security blanket of some weird sort?  Hopefully I won't get sick this time.  But I do get very down. 

It would be great if you could find a great councelor to help you find more good ways to feel.  Find happiness in your healthy times.  There is something to be said for getting depressed when you are healthy because you have to face the world again.  When I'm down sick, it is a break from the world. 

be well, Raea

Posted 10/8/2008 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
Well I've been in therapy on and off since I was 10 years old and I'm 24 now. I've always had to switch therapists for one reason or another and I'm currently in between therapists. I did post about this in a thread called difficulty finding a good therapist. You can read that if you want to know more about my therapy situation, I don't want to type it all out again. I all I know is that in all these years I really haven't made any progress and most therapists don't seem to understand me at all. Sometimes I feel like there isn't anyone in the world that is properly qualified to deal with my problems.

I have tried talking to therapists about enjoying pain and about past self-injury issues. They just never understood what I was saying to them. They had their own theories about why I was doing it and they were never right and just kept sticking to their own ideas no matter what I had to say about it. As of yet I haven't discussed with a therapist about enjoying illness because it's a realization that I made fairly recently. I suppose I'll have to bring it up at some point if I can actually find a new therapist that I feel comfortable talking to.
Posted 10/8/2008 8:21 PM (GMT 0)
They say that people who either have images in their mind of hurting themselves or actaully do in order to feel that pain - what they are actually after is control of their life in some way or its something that feels real again.  If you are doing the hurting, you are in total control of the situation...this isn't good.  I've tried to immediately identify those feelings or desires for that creeping up, then try to get that Control in another way instead of hurting myself...get the control by redirecting - feeling the emotional pain its causing me to not take the easy way out and cause myself physical pain.  The physical pain is the easy way out, I finally realized that.  Now, I have never cut myself or anything like that - its always more of a slamming my arm against the wall to actually feel something.  But its just not good for us, but you know that. 

When we are so depressed and filled with anxiety - we yearn for things that can make sense, that we can wrap our minds around.  We can't do that with anxiety...lets face it...it doesn't make sense.  Then with depression we get to the point where we are totally numb, feel like we're living in a vacuum.  We miss control and feeling. 

Sooo...long story short - I chose the control freak route.  I'm fighting this depression and anxiety as a totally different entity from myself.  now I ain't no therapist - but its helping.  Sometimes i win sometimes i don't - but that's war for ya, all about the battles.  Everytime I feel negative - I just try smile therapy and breathe out the neg.  All the cr*p they tell us to do.  If you can find the right counterpoint - you can do it.  You just have to find what works for you.  I have used EFT with a lot of success. 

Posted 10/8/2008 10:11 PM (GMT 0)
Well I don't think I've heard that one about trying to control things by hurting yourself, but as with other theories I've heard, I really don't think it's the case with me.

When I used to hurt myself, the majority of the time I did it simply for the endorphin rush.   I haven't done anything to myself in years .   Everyone says that I should try to get an endorphin rush from exercising, but I honestly have no idea what they are talking about because the only thing that happens when I exercise is that I get dizzy and overheated.

Edit:

I had to edit your post for graphic descriptions and posting outside  the rules.

Discussions of suicide or self-harm that are deemed negative and therefore potentially injurious to others are also not permitted.

Thank you for your understanding.
Kitt

Post Edited By Moderator (stkitt) : 10/8/2008 5:16:22 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2008 11:18 PM (GMT 0)

Kythe,

Have you thought of finding a therapist that deals with people that enjoy pain?  Perhaps the many therapists you have seen did not have the background needed to help you.

Take care,
Kitt

Posted 10/9/2008 1:17 AM (GMT 0)
I think that you like the pain because you want to feel something, be it a rush or what not. There are other ways to feel things, and be alive. I really think that you need to talk to somebody who is educated in that aspect. In the meantime we are here for you, but be careful what you post so that you aren't breaking rules.

We are here for you Kythe.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 10/9/2008 3:26 AM (GMT 0)
Well I don't know about finding a therapist that specializes in that sort of thing. None of the therapists I've ever seen really specialized in anything in particular. With my current situation, it would be unlikely that I could find someone that specializes because there are very few people I can see with my medical assistance so I kind of have to take what I can get. I really wish I could see someone that specialized with other problems I'm having that are really much more pressing.

I've kind of stopped my therapist search for now though. As I stated in another thread I found a therapist that I got a really good first impression of and I was really excited to start working with her. Then I found out that for some reason my medical assistance didn't cover the entire practice, they would only cover one person in the practice and it wasn't the woman I saw. She said she'd try to get it straightened out but didn't know how long it would take. I don't know if it's silly that I want to wait for her, but my gut tells me that's she's the one I should be working with and I really don't want to see anyone else at this point.

I am aware there are other ways to feel things, and there are other things that do feel good, but nothing compares to the rush I would get from the pain. I honestly don't know of anything else that would make me feel that way except for drugs maybe but I have no intention of going down that road. I guess I'll just have spend the rest of my life without feeling that again if I don't want to end up back in a mental hospital like when I was a teenager.

BTW, I reread the rules and I'm just a bit confused on one point. It seems like it's saying that you can discuss self-injury or suicide so long as you don't talk about planning to do it? If that's the case, I just want to make it clear that even though I have said that I miss the self-injury, I have no plans to do it anymore.
Posted 10/9/2008 10:25 AM (GMT 0)
I am so happy that you have no intention of any more self injury. I think that what they are concerned about is going into detail about it, we have children as young as thirteen that read the forum and I think that is the worry. They are so impressional. Not that they don't do it already, we just don't want to have them read about it. So we just wont go into any detail.

I think if your gut feeling is that the counselor can help you, that means you are comfortable with her and that is so important. I hope that she can get your insurance to cover. That happened to me at one point and my insurance did cover the one that I wanted to see. I think that in your case it is important for you to see who you are most comfortable with. But unfortunately I have no say in the matter. I wish that I did... Just for your sake.

I had a friend that did the same as you did, she once told me that when she did it, she would laugh. So in my mind, she was feeling an emotion. I think that is why she did it. She has stopped now with counseling and medications.

My sister is a thrill seeker, the doctor told her to try sky diving of all things, she was searching for an adrenaline rush. Though she never attempted the sky diving. Some of us are just that way. I wish that you could find something to give you that feeling that you so badly crave. I know that it is hard for you, but you seem to have this under control at the moment. I am happy for that.

If you want to talk in more depth, email me. I will be happy to share what I know about it and listen to what you need to say. I have more experience than I am allowed to write about.

Luv and hugs, Karen
Posted 10/9/2008 2:22 PM (GMT 0)

Kythe,

I am sorry about the edit but it had graphic comments in it and as Karen has posted people that have no concept of how to hurt themselves may pick up new info if we leave dicussions of harm on the board.

Karen has offered to talk with you through email, you may want to email her.

Take care,
Kitt

Posted 10/9/2008 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
I completely understand about the editing, but to be honest I really don't remember writing anything that was very graphic or descriptive. Since that part of the post is gone, I can't see what I wrote. I don't know if you still have access to the part of the post that you took out, but if you do, it would be helpful if you could email it to me. If I could look at it , I would have a better idea of what I shouldn't write in the future. My email is posted in my profile here.
Posted 10/9/2008 8:47 PM (GMT 0)
Heej Kythe,

You already had some great advice from what I read. I just wanted to let you know I also used to enjoy the pain, more than the feeling of false happiness. Now I see that we (well, I can't speak for all of us, so read it as "I" if you think it don't apply to everyone) human beings are just always looking for happiness. All our action depends on whether we think would make us the most happy. When I was feeling low, I wouldn't think about the future, I just wanted the bad feeling to go away, right now. So I did things that made it go away instantly, gave me a rush. I never asked myself the question whether it would make me happy in the long run. I wasn't conscious enough at that moments.

I still experience that feeling you describe quite often, but I become increasingly aware. And when I am aware, I am able to ask myself the question whether the actions I was about to take will provide me with happiness in the long run. Usually they don't. Just by being aware, the edge is already taken of, and I find it easier to think of things that will make me happy.

Now I realize that there are two ways to achieve my happiness. One way is to have all I want, one way is to cherish all that I can do with the mental and physical things I have access to. For me, that second way is more realistic, since I am a student (which aren't the richest folks these days :-) ). Yet I do have a lot of things I can use, and the more I become aware of the fact that I am lucky to be in my position, the more grateful I become towards life itself. And the closer to real and lasting happiness.

All the best Kythe!
Erik
Posted 10/9/2008 9:49 PM (GMT 0)

Kythe,

I did delete the post when I edited but it was a descirption of your injuries and how you received them.  Hope that jars you memory.

Here is a link to a site you may find very helpful. www.mayoclinic.com/health/self-injury/DS00775/DSECTION=causes

Take care and keep talking to us.  Great advice Erik. yeah

May you find peace and happiness,

Kitt

Posted 10/10/2008 1:45 AM (GMT 0)
There is a lot of research that shows that self-injury is a matter of control, not a matter of wanting to harm oneself. I was a cutter myself for years, and it absolutely makes sense. In order to be able to harm yourself, you have to go into a kind of trance where you will feel no pain, and that trance blocks out ALL pain, physical and emotional. It feels like you leave your body: very handy if you hate being in your body. When you are hurting yourself, nothing else can hurt you. But you're still being hurt. You're still not getting healthy. It's an illusion, a crutch we come to rely on.

In order to stop the cycle of self injury I needed 1. To be rediagnosed. My original psych diagnosed me clinically depressed but there was clearly something more at stake. I saw a new psych who diagnosed me bipolar. She changed my meds and that helped A LOT. 2. Support at home and in therapy. I needed a lot of support both at home and from my therapist to stop cutting. The first thing I had to do was come clean to my husband, who I had been hiding my injuries from. He was absolutely astonished and deeply mournful that I could do such things to myself right underneath his eyes, but he vowed to help me stop. He took away all my "tools", regularly checked for more, asked me daily if I'd been injuring, checked my arms, etc. My therapist also always brought up the topic in therapy every week. We talked a lot about why I'd been doing it and how to make more productive choices for expressing pain.

Eventually I learned how to handle the pressure of negative emotions without cutting. It doesn't go away though. Even now, 5 years later, I still have the urge. I just try to talk to myself and figure out what's really bugging me and find a more painless way to let out the emotion.

serafena
Posted 10/10/2008 2:49 AM (GMT 0)
Those are some very interesting thoughts Erik. I can think of a lot of things that will bring me some enjoyment at least for the moment, but I have absolutely no idea what would make me happy in the long run. It's something I've been trying to figure out for a long time, especially when I think about what sort of job I'd want to do, and I always come up empty. Right now I tend to watch or read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, it helps distract me from my pain even if it doesn't give me the same physical pleasure that self-injury would.

It's so strange Kitt, I really don't remember writing anything of the sort. All I can remember was trying not to go into too much detail about anything, but I guess this wasn't the case or you wouldn't have edited it. These memory lapses are so frustrating, but I think it's a part of the fibro. Now I really wish I could see that post so I could prove to myself that it actually happened, but too late for that now. This sort of thing happens all the time at home, my mother will tell me to do something, I have no memory of her ever saying anything to me, and then she gets angry when I didn't do what she asked and doesn't believe me that I don't remember. Well thanks for letting me know what it was you deleted and I'll keep in mind not to write about that in the future.

Well confuzzled, perhaps I'm a bit of a walking contradiction but I'll see if I can explain things a bit better, but keep in mind that I don't understand all of this myself. First of all, the enjoying the pain and enjoying the illness are two separate issues. One doesn't really have much to do with the other. Now at least from my point of view there is good pain and bad pain. Pain that is self inflicted, or perhaps inflicted by a lover with consent, gives an endorphin rush and it feels good. I wish I could give specific examples of this, but it is not allowed. Now with bad pain, such as a headache, fibro pain, a sprained ankle, or being bitten by an animal, these for some reason do not give me an endorphin rush and they are not enjoyable to me. I don't know why voluntary pain should give me pleasurable sensations and involuntary doesn't, but that's just how it happens in my case.

Now as far preferring to be in a state of illness goes, I really can't begin to explain how that one works because I really don't understand it myself. It doesn't make any sense at all to me, I'm miserable when I'm sick, yet I seem to get more depressed when I start to feel better. I've been trying these natural supplements for the fibro because in general I don't tolerate medications very well. I don't know why, but a part of me has been hoping the supplements won't work. It would all make more sense to me if I actually got some sort of pleasure from illness like I have in the past with the self injury, but that fact that I don't is what has me so baffled.

As for the source of my depression, it's been there my whole life long before these feeling of enjoying illness which is much more recent. There are certainly events in my life that have contributed to my depression, but I believe that I might possibly have just been born with a tendency to it. Perhaps my depression stems from always feeling like an outsider. In general I simply don't understand people and they don't understand me either. Even the dozens of therapists I've seen in my life usually end up baffled by me. I have an extremely hard time finding people that I can get along with and if I ever actually do make friends with someone it usually doesn't last long. Right now I don't really have any friends. I have a few people online that I talk to regularly but no friends nearby that I can see in person. All I really have is my family, but I feel like an outsider even among them.

Those are some interesting experiences that you describe serafena, but it hasn't been the same way with me. As someone who used to meditate a lot, I know what it feels like to go into a trance. I have never gone into a trance when hurting myself and I definitely did feel the physical pain. I never felt like I left my body when I did it. There are times I have left my body via astral projection and it was wonderful. Not being restricted by your physical body is true freedom. I haven't been able to do it in years and I think I crave that much more than the self injury. I hate being trapped in my body all the time, it feels like a prison. Though even though I feel that way, it was never a motivation for the self injury. I'm very glad that I never felt like I was leaving my body when hurting myself. If I had that experience from hurting myself, I don't think I would have been able to stop. Not being able to leave my body whenever I want is one of my current sources of depression, and it's something that no one, not even therapists seems to understand.
Posted 10/10/2008 2:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hmmm this is odd, I got an email notification saying that confuzzled had replied to me but there was no reply there when I checked. Also confuzzleds original post that I replied to as part of my last post is now gone as well. I think I'm a bit confuzzled my self now.
Posted 10/10/2008 6:14 PM (GMT 0)

Kythe,

I never saw the post but I think it has been removed so let's move on and not refer to it anymore.

The next time I edit a post I will send you the portion removed.  I can't always do that as I don't have everyones email but in this case I should have.  Forgive me for the oversite.  Boards have been very busy.

Take care
Kitt

Posted 10/10/2008 6:30 PM (GMT 0)
i don't think this is the case, but what you're telling us reminds me of a facticious disorder.

do you enjoy the fact that when you're sick people pay extra attention to you and take care of you?


i know when im sick too it makes me feel better. when im sick and when it rains and is gloomy outside is when i'm at my best heights. =P crazy how feelings work huh?
Posted 10/10/2008 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
I did say in my original post that it has nothing to do with attention. No one ever gives me any special attention or takes care of me when I'm sick so it's got nothing to do with wanting to get that kind of attention. To be honest I don't even think I'd want the attention even if someone were to give it to me. I usually want to be left alone when I'm sick.
Posted 10/10/2008 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
I am the same way, especially when it has to do with fibromyalgia and depression. I don't even answer the phone or the door. I want to wrap up in a cacoon and stay there. I think that I could easily become a hermit. Is that how you feel Kythe? It is easier that way for me.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 10/10/2008 8:37 PM (GMT 0)
Well I hate answering the phone or the door, but not exactly for the same reasons as you. I just hate being interrupted in the middle of doing something. If it was up to me, I'd probably never use the phone again unless it was an emergency. I prefer communicating with people through the internet because then I can communicate with them on my terms and not when they "summon" me. It just never fails that the phone will ring in the middle of watching a movie. I'd just let the machine get it, but if I'm watching the movie with family, they will always pause the movie to answer the phone, at which point I start making snarling noises. LOL
Unfortunately I can't ignore the phone all the time. If my mother is out of the house and she calls home for one reason or another, she gets very upset if no one answers and I really don't want to be yelled at.

I admit though that I do hate talking to people when very depressed, chances are I'm feeling very irritable as well and the slightest thing might make me really angry and make me want to yell at them.
Posted 10/10/2008 10:50 PM (GMT 0)

confuzzled,

Of course you did not have your post deleted by a mod,  I knew that and so did Karen.  I assume you decided to retrieve you post per you own reasons.  No explanation necessary. :-)

Hugs

Kitt

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