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Seeking advice for dealing with depressed wife

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Posted 7/23/2007 7:03 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks HSE.

Tonight, I asked her how she saw this whole leaving thing going. She said, "I'm going to work and when I have enough to move out I will". So, I explained that she's sure asking a lot of me to live with her and watch her leaving me and paying all of the bills and supporting her, and all the while getting nothing but grief from her. I was simply asking for a bit of sympathy considering what she's putting me and the kids through. Of course, she doesn't see it that way.

She's a grass is greener type of person. She seems to think that she'll be out in a month. I calmly explained that she will have to come up with a first, last & deposit on a place, furniture, deposits on utilities, and on and on. She freaked out. Too much reality. She had to take a drive to cool off.

I don't want to give up on her too soon, but when is enough? I get to the breaking point often, but when I see her or we share a good day together, I melt again. It's very stressful. She keeps telling me to "let her go" and why do I love her anyway, etc.

I'm just trying to cope with all of this and not make any rash decisions.

Rick...
Posted 7/23/2007 9:50 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Rick,

I think you need to take a step back and have good HONEST look at whats going on. This rollercoaster that you are on... does it realistically have an end? If not, can you live being on it for the next 20 yrs or however long? You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Somewhere where the tide wont wash it away.

All I can offer is my sympathy and support. I hope things get sorted one way or the other soon.

Darren

Posted 7/23/2007 2:57 PM (GMT 0)
confused  Same message as darren - when is enough? You need to decide what you can cope with - she can't honestly expect you to look after her and the kids whilst she saves for a deposit on a house etc. That's just not fair - in fact it's incredibly selfish! You need to support you and your kids - if she really wants out - then out is out.

What does your heart say? what does your head say? Which decision can you live with for 20 yeras more??

 

Posted 7/23/2007 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
Darren:

Yeah, I think that she's decided that for me. She's now hell bent on leaving. She's pumped herself up to be very angry at me and it's her fuel for leaving. The problem is that she has no money. She just went out and got a job (she's always been welcome to work with me on OUR businesses, but she refuses) as a waitress. She has zero experience and she thinks that she'll make enough to support a household. She's just not thinking clearly and I'm the one person she will not listen to.

The psychiatrist we went to told her (and me) that she lacks important life skills. This is a prime example. I asked he very nicely last night how she saw this going - meaning her leaving. I wanted to know how she expected us living together and for how long. Her answer was, "I'm going to work, save money, and move out when I can." Not good enough. She's asking me to support her and watch her leave a marriage that she never gave a chance. Realistically, she won't have enough money to move out for four to six months, easily. I spoke to a lady who will be working at the same restaurant as my wife (it doesn't even open for 10 days) and she said that she's been a waitress for 10 years and even with that experience, she is given 1 or 2 tables a night for weeks when she first starts a new job.

My wife is in a very delusional place and no one but me sees it because she comes across as someone who has it all together and everything figured out. I have to come to peace with the fact that she's leaving and that she's going to struggle. What I hate about it is that she's way too stubborn to ever call me IF she ever realizes that she made a mistake. She just won't do it.

HSE:

That's EXACTLY what she expects. I told her that I wasn't going to ask her to leave and she retorted with "My name is on the lease, you can't kick me out!" Wow. That's not what I said. She's really good at twisting things like that lately. So, I then told her that - and I prefaced it with "I am not asking you to do this" - since your name is on the lease and that's what your using against me, then I could ask you for half the bills then, but I'm not. I'm just asking how you expect me to live like this with you leaving and me having to work my butt off to pay the bills, feed you, put gas in your car, etc. So she jumps up and says, "Then I'll pay half the bills!!" I told her over and over that I wasn't asking her for that. She refused.

The bummer is that I DON'T want her to pay half the bills. First, she couldn't do it. Secondly, it would prolong he leaving for months and months, maybe a year. That's the reality of it. When I pointed out to her the money she's going to have to come up with to get a place (she refuses to get any help from me and apparently doesn't want any of the furniture), I listed first, last, deposit, utilities are going to ask for deposits, furniture...I didn't get far before I could see that it was driving her crazy, the reality of it. She got upset and went for a drive.

The immaturity that I saw last night tells me where she is at right now. I want to help her get better for herself, but it just may be completely out of my hands at this point. I'm just going to - as everyone has said - take care of myself and my kids and let her do what she's going to do.

The funny thing is that she and I had two GREAT days on Friday and Saturday where we were not fighting, we went out do dinner and shopping with the kids, we hung out, sat next to each other on the couch, etc. Saturday, she went to go shopping with her mom and made a point to kiss me goodbye. I know that sounds benign, but that was huge considering how the past few weeks have gone with us. It's almost like she sees things are nice and has to ruin it because it takes away from the fuel (read: anger) that she needs to do this.

*sigh*

Rick...
Posted 7/23/2007 5:44 PM (GMT 0)
eyes  I read your "sigh" and i sighed with you in sympathy. I read your messages but they just don't seem real - I can't believe this is happening. I know it is, but from a realistic point of view - it doesn't seem real. She needs to 'Wake up and smell the coffee' or whatever the american saying is (I'm English by the way) - my goodness she has NO idea what the real world is like. Hang on in there - be positive for you and your kids and have some fun with them - take them to the park to have ice-cream - ice-cream always works for me. Thinking of you xx
Posted 7/23/2007 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
HSE:

Thank you. I truly appreciate your words. It is a bummer and I'm just trying not to get angry - that won't help anyone.

We have a 3pm therapy appointment to discuss her leaving. Not sure what's going to come out of it, but we'll see. I'll keep you posted.

Rick...
Posted 7/23/2007 8:21 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Rick,
Stay strong and know that you are a wonderful person, your wife has an illness and you cannot fix it only she can with the help of the Doctors.
I will write more later but for now just gentle hugs.
Kitt
Posted 7/24/2007 1:23 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Kitt!
Posted 7/24/2007 2:13 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Rick,
Are you ok? I am concerned that you are getting overly stressed and I want to know how we can help you? Post when you are ready.
Mean time gentle hugs and support.
Posted 7/24/2007 4:39 AM (GMT 0)
Kitt,

Yeah, I'm alright as of right now. It is stressful to see your wife leave you in slow motion. I have freaked out a few times.

We had a therapy session today. On the way there, she told me that she didn't think I cared about her. HUH???!!!??? And then she said that I've never cared about her our entire marriage. The therapist set her straight on that one, thankfully. Nothing was totally settled during the session, but the therapist did explain to her how difficult it is going to be for her to start brand new with a new, part-time job. She asked my wife if she would be willing to do things with just me and she - to my total shock - agreed.

The therapist told my wife and I that - based on the circumstances - this could be a six month to a year process for my wife to be able to move out. My wife didn't say a word. So, time is on my side at the moment. I just have to focus on not getting angry and to not take her words so seriously. I hope that things get better with us as time goes on and we can work on our marriage.

Everyone just communicating through these postings really helps me a lot.

Thanks for the concern,

Rick...
Posted 7/24/2007 6:46 AM (GMT 0)
:-)  Sounds as if the therapy sessions helped - good! At least she might listen to an outsider's point of view - which in her mind isn't biased! At the moment it sounds as if you are on the right track - keep looking ahead! Thinking of you xx
Posted 7/24/2007 11:04 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Rick,
If she is hell bent on leaving then I would let her. But this business of hanging around until she has enough money to move out cant happen. I might sound very cold here, but if she wants to go then she should go now. You have to think about yourself for a change. Is there a benefit system she can apply to for help with housing? Like Kitt, I am concerned that you are taking on too much.
Darren
Posted 7/24/2007 12:30 PM (GMT 0)
Good Morning Rick,
I am glad you made it through the session and the Dr. explained the financial implications of trying to set up a new household on a part time salary to your wife. That is reality.
I know how difficult this is for you and only you can decide how you want to continue with support and caring advice from your fellow friends on HW.
In your words you "just have to stay calm and keep things in a good space". Please take care of you first. Give your self some time outs, do something that relaxes you and we are here for you.(((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))
Kitt
Posted 7/24/2007 5:05 PM (GMT 0)
HSE:

The session at least helped calm her down. She was at a fever pitch earlier in the day. I absolutely don't think that it changed her mind in any way at all, but it gave me a sense that the urgency in my head isn't as real as I was feeling. I have been reacting to her "I'm out of here", "I can't wait to get out", etc. speak and it hasn't helped at all. I just need to not let her words affect me as it has and realize that time is on my side. If she doesn't feel as "caged" as she has been lately, maybe she will realize that there's a chance. Who knows...

Darren:

I hear what you are saying. I cannot handle living with her if we are at each other's throat, that is for sure. But, if like we talked about in therapy yesterday, we can live together and not fight and not talk about her leaving and do things together periodically (she agreed to that) and with the kids, maybe something can change. If not, then you are right, she has to leave. The problem is that she has nowhere to go (I know, not my problem) and she uses that "I'm on the lease, too!" excuse. Trust me, if she goes off the wagon as far as our being nice to each other, she may just have to go. We'll see.

Kitt:

Thanks again for your kind words (and hugs!). That's basically what I have to do - not focus on her and focus on me and the kids. Hopefully that will take the pressure off of her and she'll come around. I can only do that and hope it works.

For instance, on Saturday (which was a good day), we had agreed that we were going to take the kids to a local lake for some family fun on Sunday. Of course, Sunday morning came around and she decided that she didn't want to go and wanted me to take the kids. I felt rejected and we not only didn't go, we ended up arguing most of the day and into Monday. I have to just not care about that and take the kids anyway - for them and for me. That's my struggle is to keep my senses about me and not get caught up in all of the drama she puts out toward me. It's very difficult for me because my greatest fear is that my family gets broken up and it's happening in slow motion right in front of me every day. Tough.

Thanks everyone,

Rick...
Posted 7/24/2007 5:13 PM (GMT 0)
confused  Do you want there to be a chance? You sound so mixed up the last few postings - I understand why and hope it works out for you - the way YOU want it and not just the way she wants it. As for you not reacting to her words - that's hard sometimes. I just say things sometimes to get a rise out of my husband Steve - I don't do it on purpose - I do it subconsciously. It's no excuse at all but things tumble out - take most of what your wife says with a pinch of salt - focus on the good - especially when you are both with the kids.

Hope your next outings to the park are fun and chill you all out xx

Posted 7/24/2007 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
HSE:

I know, I've been on a roller coaster with her and I have to get off and watch it rather than go along with it. I've absolutely gotten to the "I don't want to be married to her!!" place many times. But I also have to think about the family. I'm not so thick as to think that it will work out no matter what. I've come to grips (again, many times) with the grim truth if she does leave. But if there's any chance and I end it too soon, I will be forever upset with myself. The way I see it, if she and I have to live together while she saves money to leave (that sounds so freakin' strange even while I type it!!), then I'm going to take advantage of that time to see if things can change. If they can't, then she'll have to move out.

Thanks again,

Rick...
Posted 7/24/2007 5:47 PM (GMT 0)
sad  Oh goodness - you are living each day thinking - when will she leave? Can you really live like that? How do you protect your children from your sombre moods? I don't know how you are doing it - my hat goes off to you - you are amazing.

Thinking of you and sendning you supportive vibes and hugs xx

Posted 7/25/2007 2:45 AM (GMT 0)
HSE:

I'm a very determined individual (could be part of the problem?). I do go through regular ups and downs, but I'm really trying to stay even (as I said in a few recent posts). It's difficult, but I'm focused on it right now. I just have to not let her words or moods affect me and do what I know I can control - my reactions, my business, my kids. Her? Nope. Can't control that right now. It's all in her hands right now and I just have to detach (I've done that successfully, I'm glad to say) so that I don't go along for the ride every day or so.

Thanks again for all of your kind words.

Rick...
Posted 7/25/2007 4:43 AM (GMT 0)

Dear Singer and Mia:

I don't have a lot to add here that has not already been said, but I would like to applaud you both on your strength, love and dedication. I myself have suffered from acute Major Depression for about 7 years now.  It has claimed not only my self-confidence and ability to function as a "normal" person, but it also severed the final string of my 14 year marriage.

While in marriage counseling the therapist explained to my former husband how this disorder affected me as well as why I found normal and everyday tasks and interactions so difficult.  She let him know what my needs were and what he could do to support me.  This information appeared to go in and out of my former husbands' ears.  He still wanted to know why I couldn't have dinners ready for him, communicate normally, do laundry and attend to his other needs/wishes.  Rather than taking the time, love and energy to help me (as you are doing for your own spouses) I was berated even further for not meeting his needs.  And as for the tasks that I could complete around the house and for the care and love that I gave our daughters, this was simply something that he expected and did not acknowledge.

Your spouses may or may not have the ability to express their love, gratefullness and apologies to you now or consistently going forward.  But deep down inside I know that they must be aware of everything that your both are doing for them and when they finally start feeling a little better your relationship as a whole will be so much more stronger.

Please don't forget to take care of yourselves too.  It would be awful for yourselves and your children if you lost your own abilities to laugh, love and take everything in stride.  You both sound like extremely loving and caring individuals.  Your spouses are so lucky to have you!!

Cass

Posted 7/25/2007 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
CassandraLee:

Thank you. It is a tough thing to deal with because the person married to someone who is depressed does feel neglected...a lot of the time. I do understand the place she's in, but she refuses to say she's depressed at all. Therapists, books, friends on this forum, and a psychiatrist have told me to tell her what I need, but she just wouldn't have any part of it.

I was going back and forth between anger and other emotions, but I'm just in a place of sitting with it right now. She flares up sometimes, and rather than going along with it and giving it right back, I'm trying to stay calm and as such, she calms down much sooner than she used to. It just happened last night. It's almost like she needs the fuel that's brought on by arguing with me or me getting angry. If things are going well for a day or so, she tries to start a fight by saying negative things that she knows will upset me. *sigh*

So, it's difficult, but I have no choice. I am trying to save my marriage and my family and this is my last shot at it. If it ends with her leaving, that's just too bad for her. I'll be broken hearted, but I can't let her drag me down in the process.

Thanks again,

Rick...
Posted 7/27/2007 4:19 AM (GMT 0)
Rick,

How are your children? My two are so tired of their dad sleeping all the time and the few precious moments he is awake he is screaming, they asked if we could leave. Sad but true. They are of an age where it will not be long before they can make that decision without me.

The therapist suggested I meet with a family attorney so that I would know what would divorce entails in my state. It was an eye opener. Not sure if that is why the therapist sent me, but it definitely was a revelation. My husband does not want me to leave. The attorney told me that if I stayed and he got worse and lost his job I could end up paying him alimony. I barely make enough money to support one household, two households is out of the question. So I am really stuck. It I stay and help him and he does not get better I will never be able to leave because I will not be able to afford it. If I leave I will not be able to forgive myself for not staying and trying to help him get better.

His psychiatrist said that I can not make him better. That if he does not want to get better he will not get better. I am not sure he really wants to get better, at least not yet.

Lydia

Posted 7/27/2007 6:00 AM (GMT 0)
Lydia,

My kids are champs. Unfortunately (or fortunately), they are very resilient. I have been having talks with them about what is going on and they are handling it well. I have been keeping things calm lately just by not riding the roller coaster that my wife is in charge of. It's actually working. She's coming around a bit. I'm not taking the bait when she comes at me (I used to) and I simply stop short of getting angry and offended by things she says to me. The first day or so, she would get angrier because I wasn't taking the bait. The past two or three days, she has been more calm and has actually been half way nice. Now I just have to keep it going.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It can be very hard on kids in that scenario. Does your husband have any friends or relatives that you could recruit for an intervention? I know that sounds strange, but maybe if he had a room full of family, friends, and co-workers forcing him to look at his situation. Maybe he'll take it more seriously. Obviously, you should run that idea by his or your therapist, but it sounds like he's in big-time denial.

If I can help in any way (even just an ear), feel free to Email me.

Rick...
Posted 7/27/2007 8:21 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Rick,

You know, I have the same problem - when things are good you just want to hold on to those moments and hope they last as long as possible... and then hopefully these moments also increase in frequency.

What I also realized after reading your post was that there is a "child factor" in my situation as well as yours. (Well, "children factor" for you.) It seems that we can be in a down-cycle over a couple days, but then when it comes time to do things for our daughter that he is so focused on these tasks at hand that he can ignore the depression and the status of our marriage.

I have tried to point this out to him... that just because we had a good day running errands as a family doesn't mean that our problems have gone away. I explain that we are just accomplishing tasks, not really doing quality family things. I don't know if it is that he has something else to focus on or if he is just happy to feel like he contributed in some way even if it isn't towards what needs the most attention.

I am so torn to hear that after all of your effort and support that your wife wants to leave. She is being very selfish and I definitely know what it feels like to be with a selfish person. My husband once told me long ago that he can be selfish... which was weird because everyone knows him as a very generous person (and in fact this was one of the qualities that be both have in common). But when his depression started, I saw what he meant.

Your wife will have a very hard time on her own - if she ever can get to that point financially. Has she ever been out on her own before? I wonder why her "life skills" are not very well developed? I don't know how you manage to keep positive through this stage. As much as we love our spouses, your wife is really pushing you away and I know it must hurt deeply. You have so much strength to keep it together and to keep track of your kids, and I hope that you are getting support for yourself as well.

Cassandralee - thanks for your mention to me and for your additional insight. It really does help.
Posted 7/27/2007 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
Cassandralee,

I think you are right about how your husband feels when you are all out together. He probably does think that it's a task that he can accomplish and it makes him feel good since he thinks he doesn't have control over the rest of his life. It's very hard.

My wife is selfish in a lot of ways, unfortunately. But she has always felt that she has given herself to whatever situation she thought was the best for her and her children. So now, she is gaining strength by "standing up" for what her head is telling her. The unfortunate thing is that I'm the target, even though she made the decisions that lead her to the life we now live. I believed what she said.

I'm not sure that she's gone just yet. Things are mellow at the moment because I'm not riding her emotional roller coaster. When I stay calm, she does move closer to me, so I'm keeping in that place until she's close enough where she can get some therapy for the more pressing issues in her life. Not sure if that will work, but it's all I've got at the moment.

She's been out on her own before, but not for very long. She says that it was because she was always looking for the right guy and get married. Now, she says that she wants to be on her own to prove to herself that she can do it. Even the therapist we see made it clear to her that it is going to take a looooong time for her to get to the point where she can move out on her own. That's the saving grace for me. I'm taking that time to get her back to a place where she values our marriage and family. If it doesn't work, then I've done all I can do.

I think that she's put blinders on to what really matters as an adult, which is why she never developed her life skills. She just doesn't know how to be in a relationship where there's give and take. She's really good at taking, but has a big problem with the giving. She can say that she understands, but she just doesn't put it into action like most people would. It's very frustrating when I give to her as much as I do and then get slighted with even the basics from her (i.e., hugs, etc.).

I don't know how I've stayed positive, either. If I had her cynical outlook on life, I'd have been gone long ago. Long ago.

Any time you need to talk with someone who gets what you are dealing with, just send me an Email.

Take care of yourself,

Rick...
Posted 7/30/2007 4:50 PM (GMT 0)
Trying to make some hard decisions...

At this point, my closest friends are advising me to let my wife go (divorce). She has convinced herself that she does not have any depression and has taken herself off of all meds (three weeks or so now). She has completely disconnected from me (that's going on three months now), which - in my opinion - makes it easier for her to keep her focus on leaving. When I discuss it with her, she says that the kids (we have 5) will be just fine and everything will be rosy.

We talked yesterday and she said (this has been said before) that she thought that she wanted this life (meaning a husband who loves her and a household full of kids), but she now realizes that she doesn't. She says that it's not her and she wants to get out. Of course, this doesn't mean she won't have kids anymore... She then says that she needs to save money to move out on her own, but the new job she just got (she hasn't worked for three years to be a stay at home mom) will NOT pay her enough, but she's trying not to think about that.

Then, after talking about that mindset and my stance of our commitment to our marriage and this family, she says that she gives up and that I "win" and she'll honor her "commitment" (her quotation marks) and stay, but she isn't going to like it Then she wants me to make a list of her "wifely duties" so that she knows what is expected of her. Ugh. Yeah, that's the type of relationship I want with my wife. She then put her wedding ring back on (she hasn't worn it for two weeks) and showed it to me on her hand and said (with a very snotty attitude...typical these days), "See? Are you happy now?"

I can't handle the immaturity and delusional behavior from her. She wants to leave without working on this marriage, but she expects me to support her completely (I just spent $70 yesterday on work clothes for her) until she's ready to leave, but all the while she doesn't want to be married during that time. In all seriousness, the amount of money she's going to be making says that she'll be here for six months to a year (our therapist told her that last week) - if not longer. Does anyone think that they could handle the roller coaster I've been on (if you've followed this thread) for another year or more??? I don't.

So I have to make some hard decisions. As everyone here knows, I love my wife very much. I love our kids and our family very much. That said, I am very aware that there are things that need to change in order for all of us to be happy within the family. No problem, I can handle that. My friends tell me that they are sad to say this to me, but they think that she's too far gone and isn't giving me any hope at all for change (on her part) or recovery. They feel that I need to break it off before it gets worse for me and the kids. Of course, my stance is that what if she's going through a very, very rough time in her life right now (obvious) and that she'll need me on the other side of this. If I break it off now while things are in flux and she's having a hard time (and not thinking clearly, IMHO), will I regret it?

I have always taken the stance that you do what you have to do in a marriage to support each other. I want to believe that we'll come out of this stronger and happier, but she's not capable of giving me anything right now. No support, no affection (not even a hug when I need it or even a hand on my arm - nothing), nothing that shows that we are still married, and especially nothing that shows that she wants it to work. In fact, that's what she says - "I don't want it to work because I don't see this situation ever being good for me." She says that type of stuff, but she certainly likes the fact that we can go out to dinner, she can buy work clothes, she can take a few days last week to go to an amusement park with the kids (she didn't want me to go, even though I REALLY wanted to and needed the break from working all summer), and she's taking off for three days this week with our oldest daughter and her mom, leaving me with the rest of the kids and having to work at the same time.

There is NO WAY that she can make enough money to live comfortably on her own with kids to deal with. So, do I let her go and hope that she figures that out and hopefully comes back? Do I press the issue by moving out and leaving her with the bills to see how it would be for her on her own? Do I continue being a ****and support her for months and months so that she can leave this marriage while she gives me absolutely nothing emotionally or otherwise??

I'm very tired. I'm losing the fight that I have left in me to save this marriage. I'm tired of feeling unloved and uncared for from my wife. She doesn't even have any compassion for me considering that she's turned my world upside down because she "realized" that this isn't the life she wants - never mind the fact that she has said nothing but the opposite all these years, making me believe that she was a different person.

Any advice?

*sigh*

Rick...
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