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Singer69 - Seeking help for depressed wife

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Posted 8/15/2007 7:08 PM (GMT 0)
SnowyLynne:

My wife does not trust anyone with her life. She used to trust me, but she's made a severe disconnect in her mind. That's the crux of the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Kitt:

She's had a looooooong time to think about this. I'm pretty sure that she's going to decide to leave, but I'm not in a place to allow her months to prepare. She has such a poor attitude about everything - especially me - that I can't handle living with her under these conditions any longer.

She doesn't interact with the children as much as she should. Clearly she's very focused on herself and her problems and me and the kids are not as important - the kids are WAY more important to her than I am, obviously. She's made such a disconnect with me that I'm really not sure if it could ever be recovered, to be honest.

No, I'm not ready for the reality of it, quite frankly. As I type this, I'm confident and believe it's the right thing. But when it comes right down to it, I'm sure I'll be a mess. But I'm not getting anything from her at this stage and when I look back on our marriage, it's more of the same. It's always been about her and what she can and can't handle and what she is and isn't comfortable with. She's never been overly good to me. She's never taken care of me - even when I really needed her to.

I do know that I have a long road ahead of me regardless. I think that my greatest fear right now is that she'll be afraid to cut the ties completely because she's so unsure of herself and her potential for taking care of her and the kids financially. I'm afraid of being strung along while she does whatever she wants.

She changed the wording of her leaving today (she's said this before as well) from wanting a divorce to "I need a break". That scares me. I wish that I could believe that she needs to get some perspective and that she wants the marriage to work, but I'm thinking that she's probably more interested in her own well being and doesn't want to slam the door just in case it's too tough out there on her own, so she's making it sound temporary. I don't believe it.

She's so far gone in her mind that she doesn't even care when I pour my heart out to her and appeal to her sense of responsibility and commitment in regards to our marriage and our family - especially how this will affect the kids. When I discuss that with her, she rolls her eyes and huffs. My mind tells me to run from this woman because she's clearly not the person I thought she was, but my heart still sees the person I know she can be (because she's been that person in the past) and I feel that she just needs to address her issues and figure them out. That's why I have asked that if she stays she goes to counseling with and without me.

Ugh. I wish I could just fast forward a few months and not have to live through this, but such is life, huh?

Thanks again,

Rick...
Posted 8/15/2007 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
Her Answer:

She says she'll be out September 1.

She's going to make this ugly, I can tell just from the look of contempt for me she has on her face.

I'm not looking forward to this.

Rick...
Posted 8/15/2007 11:30 PM (GMT 0)

Dear Rick,

I have to ask, sorry, is there another man in her life and she is hanging onto you just in case it does not work out?  That way she has a safety net to support her?

I know that is a heartbreaker question, (((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

Posted 8/16/2007 1:50 AM (GMT 0)
Kitt:

I truly don't think so. I can't know for sure, but I don't think so.

Here's something I'd like to throw out there to everyone and see what your thoughts are:

I was talking to a close friend and we were discussing my wife's insecurity issues and intimacy issues. She is a very, very pleasant person. Meaning, if you all met her face to face, you'd find her very friendly and nice and cute (those are the things that I hear all the time about her). But it's only with cursory relationships. She has no deeper relationship with anyone but me (and now that's in jeopardy). She has no close friends that she shares her thoughts with.

In fact, her matron of honor in our wedding was my best man's wife - someone she barely knew - because she didn't have any close girlfriends.

Now, yes, I'm seeing this now as a big sign. She's complained about not being able to keep friendships and that she feels as if she has always been the one to keep up friendships and that they always end because the other person doesn't make any effort.

So, it's clear to me at this point that this is THE issue keeping her from truly being there for me as my wife. She's avoiding intimacy - even with me.

What do you think of that?

That's kind of what I've been saying is that what if this is something that she needs to work through in order to be able to be in our marriage. But how do I get her to acknowledge it and possibly see that it's something that is keeping her from living a happy life? She's clearly got long-standing issues that she has not dealt with in her life and it's STILL affecting her life.
Posted 8/16/2007 8:39 PM (GMT 0)

Rick,

I think you are right.  She has some sort of fear of intimacy and that is why she has no close friends.  It concerns me about the relationship she will have long term with your children and what they will learn from it.  As for what to do about it, the only solution I see is that she get help or, you know the other answer.  She has to get help for herself and for those kids, even if she decides she never wants to see you again, which I don't think that will happen if she gets help.  I hate what all of you are going through.  She has to be miserable too.  And you can't keep doing all that you are doing.  You do realize that you are enabling her, pretty much like someone bringing home a bottle to the alcoholic.  I hate to put it to you like that, but in my opinion, that's the way I see it.

I so want things to get better for all of you.  But, she is not going to hit her rock bottom until you allow her to.  If you could find the time, a few Al-Anon meetings would be great for you.  I know your wife is not an alcoholic, but the 12-Step program works for just about every situation.  It would do you a world of good, I promise.

Take care!

Carla

Posted 8/16/2007 11:53 PM (GMT 0)

Dear Rick,

I know you want this to work out and I hope it does for you and sooner rather than later.

You may be right in your therory and if you are she is in desperate need on therapy, CBT would be great for her. If she won't accept her issues as her porblem and seek help nothing will change and she will move out as she plans.

Now please don't take this wrong, but your talking to a lady with a bit of experience  and you wrote "She has no deeper relationship with anyone but me" Are you truly a believer  that couples tell each other every single thought they have and talk to each other about every move they make.

I sure know I think a lot of things that I would never tell my husband as well as I have done things that were dumb but I have never told anyone and I won't not even a therapist. Some things are my private business.

That is why I asked if there was someone else.  You maybe the person she has the deepest relationship you know of but her relationship with herself is a private one. Does that make sense?

Just my opinion and not going to make a lot of difference but it could keep you from being blown to bits by any surprises she may have kept from you.

Gentle Hugs and take care.

Posted 8/17/2007 2:28 AM (GMT 0)
Carla:

You're not the first to suggest al-anon. I have thought about that and will look into it. I do know what you're saying about enabling her. I've thought long and hard about that. I'll admit that I have a concern that if I pull back on what I do for her that she'll use it as fuel against me and bolster her reasons for leaving. Of course, if she's not going to seek help, maybe that's okay. I don't know.

I've brought up the issue of what the children are going to learn from her leaving and her response is very typical; the kids will learn that if they are in a bad situation that they can always leave. UGH. That's the exact wrong message as far as I'm concerned. Before this whole thing started with her months ago, she and I used to sit the kids down (I kid you not) and talk to them about the importance of a strong marriage and family and that - unless there are severe problems such as abuse and infidelity, etc. - you always work on problems and make the marriage stronger, which makes the family stronger. That's why this entire process over the past few months has just rocked me silly. I never saw this coming from her. I NEVER saw her disconnecting from me like she has or wanting just to up and leave.

Kitt:

What's CBT?

I'm not a believer that couples tell each other every thought. I am finding that I'm a rare husband in that I do communicate my true feelings for her and have ZERO problem doing that. But I don't tell her every thought of mine. I know that she's got some major goofy stuff swirling around in her head right about now and I'd probably call for the men with butterfly nets if I was able to tap into that!

;-)

I know that I sound like a naive husband when I say that she isn't having an affair (emotionally or otherwise), but I guess you have to see our day to day situation. She is usually locked up in our room or sitting on the couch. We have a 2 1/2 year old daughter, so she has her all the time. I work less than a mile from our house and I come home at all different hours of the day and she's always in one of those two places. She doesn't have any outside interests (part of the problem) with the recent exception of her new job - which is right across the street from my office and less than a mile from our house. When she gets off of work, she's home in 3 minutes.

So, while I can't say that it's impossible, it is very, very unlikely. My first wife had an emotional affair when she was leaving (she's now married to the guy) and I saw the signs and gave her the benefit of the doubt. But then I saw the cell phone bill and the calls to him at all hours of the night, etc. My wife isn't doing that...as far as I know.

One thing that I just found today (someone on another forum sent it to me) is a web page about detachment from a dependent situation. I found it to be very, very interesting indeed.

Take a look and let me know what you all think. I am going to attempt to detach and hopefully it will eventually bring her closer to me rather than further away. If not, then I'm in a better position emotionally to deal with it. That's the plan at this point in time.

http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm

Rick...
Posted 8/17/2007 3:42 AM (GMT 0)

Hey Rick,

A Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a psychotherapy based on modifying everyday thoughts and behaviors, with the aim of positively influencing emotions.

I will take a look at the link you posted and respond tomorrow. (((HUGS)))

Kitt


Posted 8/17/2007 2:30 PM (GMT 0)

Rick,

I liked your link to the detachment site and found it very enlightening. In fact I saved it. I found it to have some very helpful information and for you it should shed some light on how you feel. (((((((HUGS))))))))

Hope your day is good, Happy Friday.

Posted 8/17/2007 7:03 PM (GMT 0)
Kitt,

Yes, it does have some great info. I still haven't gone through the entire thing, but I'm going to do that right now.

Thanks,

Rick...
Posted 8/19/2007 2:17 AM (GMT 0)
Kharma in a fortune cookie??

I took my family to a new Chinese restaurant near us today for lunch. My wife's fortune cookie said the following:

"It does not take guts to quit"

Wow, huh?
Posted 8/19/2007 4:34 AM (GMT 0)

Rick,

What, exactly are you reading into your wife's fortune cookie?

Carla

Posted 8/19/2007 4:52 AM (GMT 0)

Rick,

I am curoius like Carla as to what you think the fortune means in regards to your wife?

If she went out to lunch is that a good sign I hope. :)

Posted 8/19/2007 9:30 AM (GMT 0)
Carla and Kitt:

Well, I just read that it's easy to quit and more difficult to work things through, that's all.

It's a moot point now, I suppose. She's currently sleeping in the mini van (her choice). It looks as if it's pretty much over.

I'll post more when there's something solid to post. For now, she's probably out today.

Rick...
Posted 8/19/2007 10:32 AM (GMT 0)
Dear Rick,

Been thru so much of this myself, i pushed husband away too, a common thread in depression.

Two things....1 have u approached the idea that depression is a chemical imbalance , its like a diabetic needs insulin
she needs meds, nothing she has control over on the depressioin part. (referring to making her see its not "her" its the depression, and like a diabetic it can be helpful to be on meds.)

2nd.........This is gonna hit her hard, and make her think (i hope) Every action and inaction, is being monitored by her
children, how she is willing to cope. If your children were to inherit this disease,they will rememeber how mom handled it. Does she want to see her children (if they were to get depression) handle it the way she is. She really needs
to understand that! She is setting the example to them! you are doing a wonderful job i might add.

When i realized this(myself i might add, and i was willing to get help) it put things in a whole new light, because our
kids mean the world to us. Im hoping this might work, but yet not push her over the edge.

You are doing the best u can, and my heart goes out to you for trying so hard and so long with her! Remind her also,
you will fight for the kids, because she is showing signs of being unstable, and living an unstable enviornment. If she has anger, which she probably will, its because she knows youre speaking the truth! Its time for her buck up, and act like an adult.

Annabanana
Posted 8/19/2007 12:32 PM (GMT 0)
Annabanana:

Yes, I explained the chemical imbalance angle with her (as did our therapist), but she just feels that she is not depressed on her own. She feels that it's "situational" and that if she divorces me and goes out on her own, she'll be just fine. She used to believe that she had a depression, but our family doctor gave her the wrong meds and she now refuses to take anything or go to any more therapy appts.

Funny enough, your second suggestion is exactly why she has depression. My wife was adopted and found her birth mom 7 or 8 years ago. Her birth mom has a big chemical imbalance and is a miserable person. Not so funny is how her birth mom treated her husband (not my wife's birth father). She treated him like dirt and he took it because he loved her. I have explained to my wife that I will not be that guy. I deserve to be treated better and she needs to realize that the world does not revolve around her.

I have tried to talk to her about our kids inheriting this problem and she just wants none of it. She won't discuss it. I have explained to her that I will fight for the kids. She already knows that I will not let her take the kids if she does not have a stable environment for them and that I will not accept anything less than 50% custody.

She does have anger. She has for a while now. Because I have been trying to get her help off and on for months now, she says that I'm controlling. The irony there is that if you have read any of my postings dating back a ways, you'll quickly see how she controls me and my every emotion, it seems. I'm on a roller coaster with her and walk on eggshells around her. It's been miserable and it's only going to get worse now if she is leaving.

When I talk to her about stepping up and being an adult, she responds by saying that that's what she's doing by moving out and divorcing. She has an answer for everything and she is very good at turning things around on me. She actually gets me feeling guilty for showing my affection for her over the years. She says that she's not a naturally affectionate person, so my shows of affection (we're talking just basic stuff like a kiss here or a hand on the back of her arm...things like that) make her feel guilty because she doesn't do the same for me.

Rick...
Posted 8/20/2007 3:35 AM (GMT 0)
Rick,

After the kids and I walked out last week I met with my husbands therapist. It was decided for him to be assessed for an inpatient admission to a psychiatric hospital. It was decided that he was not to be admitted, but he is in a day program. His diagnosis has changed from severe depression to bipolar (manic depression). His medications have been changed.

Is the situation better? Not really. I am just being pulled between one really angry child and one husband who is trying to get his life back together.

L.

Posted 8/20/2007 6:26 AM (GMT 0)
Hi L.,

I'm sorry to hear about how things have turned for you. That is not good. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, he's possibly getting help and that would be good for your kids in the long run if they are ever to have a relationship with him. A healthy one, anyway.

I am now realizing that I chose very, very poorly with regards to my wife...soon to be ex-wife. She has turned so completely on me that she's now twisting every single thing I say into something ugly. I was talking to her about co-parenting together (we have three kids together) and she said that she doesn't think we need to, that we'll have two separate households and that'll be that. Yeah, that's what I'm dealing with.

When I tried to explain to her how that's not good for the kids and that we need to be able to co-parent for them, she (I kid you not) placed her fingers in her ears and told me that she wasn't going to listen to me anymore.

Every word I say is manipulating according to her. She accused me tonight of smothering her. When I asked for an explanation, the example she gave was how I always buy her things and do things for her over the span of our marriage. She can't handle intimacy and obviously can't handle a mature relationship. She has no clue how to do that. She's gotten to the place where she's turned so vehemently at me that she's just spitting venom at me no matter what I say.

The other mature thing? She called me manipulative and insincere (when I told her that I bought her things because I loved her, she told me that I was passive aggressive and really didn't love her at all) in front of our 15 year old daughter.

I need her out of this house, but I'm not sure how to do it. She tells me that I can't kick her out, but she's wreaking havoc on this household and causing turmoil with the kids. My two kids from my previous marriage told me and their mom that my wife hates them. They may be right. I wouldn't put anything past her at this point. She's not the woman I knew and loved. She's a completely different person.

Rick...
Posted 8/20/2007 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Rick,
It may not be possible for you to get her to leave unless you find a place for her to go. The other option is for you to pick up the kids and go somewhere. Maybe she needs a wake up call.
This whole situation stinks.
I have a 15 year old too. This is really hard on him, as well as my 17 year old, because they grasp what is going on in the house and the relationships.
Do you think the kids will ever forgive her?
L.
Posted 8/20/2007 3:40 PM (GMT 0)
She is just an angry person at this point and has blamed me for all of her problems. I realize that this is part of the process for her, but it doesn't feel good, that's for sure.

I'm going to do my best to simply stay neutral and not engage her.

Rick...
Posted 8/21/2007 2:02 AM (GMT 0)

Hey Rick,

I've been away from the Depression Board for a while, and I was quite dismayed to hear how things have progressed.   Your wife has a chemical imbalance, she cannot be delt with like a rational person.  Her refusal to participate in any additional psychiatric help demonstrates this to a tee.  CBT would be of no use to your wife, since she doesn't think she has a problem.  Her distorted view of how life will be after getting divorced is irrational.  If she doesn't voluntarily get help for her imbalance, you should not even consider joint custody.  Frankly, I think you should try to get her committed, and force her to get help.  Tell her therapist that her behavior has become dangerous to the children, especially the little one.  I wouldn't leave her alone with the baby for even a short period of time.  Bi-polar people can become delusional or psychotic, and if not on medication, they can snap at any time.  I've seen it happen with my cousin and an old friend. 

Face it Rick, you are fighting a losing battle, and if your wife won't take the appropriate meds to allow her to function normally, you need to surgically cut her out of your life.  Sever all connections completely.  Neither you nor your children deserve a messy, drawn out process.  Cover yourself financially, cancel any joint credit cards.  Take her name off any joint bank accounts.  DO IT NOW.  Don't let her clean you out financially, and don't believe for a minute that someone in her frame of mind wouldn't attempt a big money grab in a heartbeat.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've been beating your head on this rock far too long.  Good luck and keep us updated.

Leigh Ann cool

Posted 8/21/2007 6:18 AM (GMT 0)
Leigh Ann,

Well, I don't want to make it sound like she's a danger to the children. She may not be a great mom at the moment (and for a while), but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Trust me, I'd be right there with you if I felt that the kids were in any danger. I'm not so sure that she's bi-polar as it seems to basically surround our interactions. She doesn't just flip out for no reason, it usually has to do with something that has happened with the two of us. She is very immature and very delusional right now and she is a big, dark cloud over our household. I have given up (you're right, I have a HUGE knot on my forehead from beating my head against this rock) on this person she has become. I'll be filing for divorce soon.

Funny you should mention bank accounts. Just today, I closed my business account because she was on it and reopened a new one. I also closed my personal account and business savings because she was on those as well. So, I'm absolutely moving in that direction very quickly just in case. I took my office key off her key ring as well...just in case.

You are also correct about the fact that I can't change her. She has to want to change and she has to want to get this fixed. She clearly doesn't. She believes that it has everything to do with our marriage and her poor lot in life (as she sees it). That's her deal at this point. She's disconnected with me to the point that I no longer matter to her and I don't factor into ANY of her plans, so there's absolutely nothing that I could say that would change her mind or even cause her to pause for a single moment.

I'm done trying with her. That's it. I don't see her wanting to change and I don't see her ever admitting that she has some issues that she has to deal with.

I remember just six or seven months ago or so, we heard about someone else divorcing and she turned to me (I kid you not), pointed her finger at me and said, "You know that divorce is not an option, right?"

I hope you were all sitting down for that one.

;-)

Rick...
Posted 8/22/2007 4:39 AM (GMT 0)

Hey Rick,

Our similarities continue....my wife also told me recently (before things turned bad 3 months ago) that divorce was never an option for us and that we'd stick together through good times and bad forever, right?? She was even scathing about our divorced friends.

A totally different person lives in my wife's body today, and divorce seems to be the *only* option for her.....

Posted 8/22/2007 1:37 PM (GMT 0)
Kiwi,

Yes, the similarities are incredible. I'd say it is something in the water, but I think that we're too far away from each other for that possibility!

For the past three days, she barely says two words to me. Remember, she can't stand the sound of my voice. Last night, she got angry with me for not coming home for dinner that she made for me. ??!?!!??

I'm at the point where divorce just might be the only option for *me*. Sad to say. Very sad.

Rick...
Posted 8/22/2007 10:50 PM (GMT 0)

Rick,

So, she's sleeping in the mini-van and all of a sudden she decides to make dinner for you?

I think you and Kiwi should start writing a script for a new soap opera.  Days of Our Lives  is already taken, so you need to put your heads together and come up with a title.   :-)

Carla

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