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Should I stay or should I go?
Yes, move out, let her have the house - 0.0% - 0 votes
Yes, but make her move out. - 0.0% - 0 votes
No, it's just the depression talking and she will be back - 0.0% - 0 votes
Maybe - 0.0% - 0 votes
I have absolutely no clue!! good luck with that! - 0.0% - 0 votes
You are an idiot for staying around this long! - 100.0% - 1 votes
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Posted 5/13/2013 4:34 PM (GMT 0)

Hello All,

This is my first post on this forum, but not my first time post in a forum about depression.  I'll start with a little background.  I've been married with my beautiful wife since '04.  We met in college were together about 2.5 yrs before we got married.  We decided to hold off on having kids for about 5 yrs so we could become finacially stable.  Along the way, things were up and down, but I didn't consider it more or worse than any other marriage.  In '06 she'd become very distant and became home sick (she's from Mexico).  She felt like she was loosing her identity since I wasn't conversational in Spanish.  At that point she started talking about divorce.  She was disappointed in me.  I had a good job, but I wasn't happy with it and didn't do anything about it.  I'd been with her about 5 yrs and still didn't speak Spanish.  Basically she was done... It wasn't too much longer that she wanted to go on a trip to NYC without me.  I found out she was having an emotional affair with a former classmate from Mexico and went to see him.  Long story short I found out about the affair...she swore it was a big mistake, she loved me and wanted to make it work.  We moved on from that.  I gave her my 100% trust again.  Fast forward 2-3 more yrs, and the talk of divorce came up again.  It would come and go.  Then she was studying for a professional exam... This is where I first got a glimpse of her depression.  This is one of the hardest of professional exams and she is a very smart and determined person, however, she wasn't able to pass.  She made it on the 3 attempt, but the 1.5 yrs of constent studying and taking the test, and waiting for the results was hell.  I did most of the house work around that time to help her and relieve as much stress as I could.  This is when I first saw the uncontrollable crying.  It only happened a couple times during that time, so I really didn't think much of it.  After the test was over and done she was back up.  We'd gotten our house and cars paid off....Debt Free!!!  So it was finally time to start trying for the family.  We tried and tried for almost a year.  In that time the doctor told her that everything was fine with her and these things just take time.  Well around that 10 month mark of trying I went and got tested myself.  Found out I was infertile.  I am able to have children but likely only with IVF.  This devistated both of us. She was very supportive of me at first, but quickly started to feel her own lose.  Compound that lose with the uncertainty that she'd always felt for our marriage and this is what brought her depression to the front.  She lost all interest in friends, gardening, etc.  She would cry for most of the weekend, bury herself in her iPad reading about infertility and divorce.  I ended up getting a surgery to hopefully correct the issue but after the year long wait for recovering, I was losing her quickly to the disease.  I pushed and pushed for her to get help...Pleaded with her to not throw away our marriage.  And then as a last ditch effort, I convinced her to go to one of those Marriage Bootcamps.  This was hugely helpful for me personally, but didn't appear to help the marriage at first.  At the bootcamp, I realized that I'd lost myself.  I was giving to her in the wrong way and in the process lost all the things I was passionate about.  After the bootcamp, and per our agreement, I moved out to give her space.  I moved in with a friend and after about 2 weeks she asked me to move back.  I made it clear when I moved back that I wouldn't move out again because it wasn't fair to me to have to move out everytime she was feeling low.  She'd grown some from the bootcamp, but was definitely still suffering and going up and down.  I was reading a lot about depression to educate myself.  I learned that I should take anything personal that she says when I think she's in a depressive state.  That one tip helped me greatly in focusing on being positive.  The second thing I learned was that I couldn't "make" her get help.  So I got help myself so she could hopefully see the change in me.  I changed jobs, started working out some, and finally started learning Spanish.  I felt like I was finally in control of myself and my mind.  I realized that the only help I could offer was to just be there for her, help her when she was down, not judge and not push advice.  She had to find that for herself.  Well in the last few months she started seeing a therapist.  Things were going really good.  She got back into gardening, she started hanging out with friends, reading motivational books, cleaning out garage and in the past weeks we'd started seriously talking about renovating our house and adding a second floor.  It felt like my wife was coming back again.  That ended this weekend...  At first, I thought, this is just an low that will pass, just as they have in the past.  I figured, that Saturday would be hell, but Sunday she'd come around.  Well, first she cancelled dinner plans we had on Saturday and she basically spent both days in her iPad and crying off and on.  Sunday afternoon she took a shower and then came to talk to me.  She said that since I wouldn't move out that she was.  He parents recently bought a house her and that she would move in there until she could get all the divorce papers in line.  I tried to reason with her and get her to realize that she'd just spent the last few months rebuilding our life together and she basically said she was just pretending that everything could be good, but she realized that it can't be.  So I moved my car and let her go.  She didn't contact me last night or this morning so far.
This gets me to my point....  I've faught so hard for her and this marriage, but I don't know if she's right or I'm right.  She thinks that I'm selfish and only help her because I don't want to lose her.  And that if she was the one with infertility that she would have left me so that I could have what I want in life.  Sometimes I can't tell if the depression is what's causing her to say these things or if they are really true...and that she does want to move on with someone else to get that family she so desparately wants.  Keep in mind that we could likely have a successful IVF and go on to have children like so many others.  She just can't bring herself to commit to IVF when she's so uncertain about us.  My dilemna is whether or not to stop fighting this and give her the separate that she wants.  A few weeks back we where having a nice dinner on the patio and drinking some wine.  She told me a story from a book that her therapist had given her called "Who moved my cheese"  It seemed like a great book and I could tell it really resonated with her.  After her story we'd started to talk about her therapy for the first time (I don't ever push her to talk about it)  She basically told me that she was worried that I would leave her....THAT I WOULD LEAVE HER!!  That was the first time I'd ever heard something like that from her.  I assured her that I was with her for life and would battle this to the end.  She fell asleep in my arms on the patio that night.
I love her with all my heart, but I couldn't live with myself if I knew that I was in fact the source of her pain.  She told me yesterday that I am the only person that makes her wish she was dead....  How do you respond to that?  It's painful to hear, but I can't show her that.  I know it's the depression talking, but what if it's not?  What if she really believes that.  If so why wouldn't I just leave her to try and find happiness?
What do the experts here think? Oh and sorry for this being so long...also I didn't proofread because of that, so sorry for that as well...
Thanks,

Posted 5/13/2013 8:37 PM (GMT 0)
Carl,
Thanks for the reply and the insight. I know that I went through a period of greeving after the news of my infertility, but I came to terms with that and decided that feeling bad about it wasn't going to make the sitution change. After we attended that bootcamp, I did a lot of spiritual growing...not in the Jesus, God sense, but I feel like I have a really strong hold on my emotions. I was crying at least once a day for those first few weeks after the news...then it was flame up whenever she would bring up the divorce. In the last year, I haven't cried but once or twice and the last time I remember was when my wife and I were going through some old personal items to clean up the house and I ran across a letter my wife had written to me when we were dating. That feeling of love rushed back over me.

I would say that I'm not trying to change her mind about me at this point. I only want her to make the decision with a clear mind rather than when she's down. It's a bit of a catch-22 though, since I know to make that sort of decision will likely send her into a low. It's just hard to accept when we've had such a great time together in the last few months since she got help. That time is worth all the pain that came with it.

You'd asked if it's fair to me...And I can say with 100% confidence that the fairness to me has left my mind. She has a disease and I would never leave her because of that. The mean words are the depression talking or else she would have no issues saying them all the time. I made a concious decision that A) I don't need to have children to be a happy and healthy person; B) if she leaves me, I can be happy; C) if she stays with me and the depressive behavior continues, I can be happy; D) if she stays with me and beats the depression, I would of course be happy.

My true dilemna is just understanding if I'm the cause of her pain or depression. I just worry that if we'd been successful having children, if the depression would have surfaced anyway. I didn't mention in my post that I feel her Mother also suffers from depression. She always seems to be very happy, but she's been living with us a lot more recently and I've come to see her depression first hand. She tends to drink to mask it, but sometimes that doesn't help either.

This is obviously one of the most important (if not the most important) questions I'll ever have to answer in my life. I don't want to make a life changing decision based on behavior that could be cloud by depression. But at the same time, I don't want to be wasting her time if she really doesn't love me and just wants out. It's just hard to believe that this is what she wants when just last week we were planning an addition to our house, bought tickets to go on vacation in July and in general, just spending a lot of really good quality time with her.

SO CONFUSED!!
Posted 5/13/2013 9:10 PM (GMT 0)
Keep,

welcome to the forum

unless a person wants to be helped whether they have depression or another disorder it is almost impossible for you to help them.

Be careful about blaming yourself for their uphappiness. This would be a good time to work on yourself and any issues you may have regarding depression or anxiety.

It is clear from what you have posted that the relationship is over, at least for one of you. I would say it is time for you to grieve, let go and move on.

Peace
Trina
Posted 5/13/2013 9:37 PM (GMT 0)
BnotAfraid,

Thanks for your post. She definitely wants help, she has been seeing a therapist for just over 2 months now. I stay out of that all together and she talks to me about it when she wants to. I've made it a point to not push my view or give advice (although it's hard and does come out sometimes).

Like I said in my previous post. I don't feel like I suffer from depression. I know I will be sad if the marriage ends, but it won't be the end of me. I feel like if I need to check my emotions, I am able to very easily. I felt last night like I should be crying, but couldn't. Not that I'm cold or anything, it's just that I've realized after a lot of soul searching that thinking of myself (selfish thoughts) only brings me pain. Thinking of others (most my wife, but family, friends, co-workers, strangers) brings me happiness.

You said it very bluntly that the relationship is over... if that were the case why hasn't she just left. I feel like her depression makes her think her marriage is garbage. Why I think that is when she's up and clear, she doesn't talk about divorce and on the contrary talks about things in our future and we have a great time together. This is where my confusion is... I could be totally wrong and I could be holding on for nothing, but when she's up I feel like we're "us" again.

I know that if she does go through with the divorce, I will accept it, grieve and move on...That is what has to happen. But I refuse to facilitate it at all. I won't fight her on signing or splitting assets, so it will be easy from that side, but I will not organized it, because I disagree with it, but I would never force her to stay. I don't want that either.

I will be losing by best friend... and worse losing my best friend to a treatable disease. Part of me thinks this will just all pass... I feel like once she goes to therapy this week she will get some clarity on the whole thing and change her mind, but you never know.

Also I should mention that I think this last "low" was due to Mother's day (I may have mentioned it, not sure).

Thanks for all the posts... I feel like the concensus is that I should go...so far.
Posted 5/13/2013 9:48 PM (GMT 0)
JB1,
Yes the bootcamp did have some marriage counseling to it, but it was really more about working on yourself to help the marriage. As for one-on-one marraige counseling, we did go to someone for about 4-5 sessions. At the 4th session, he realized that she was suffering from depression and suggested that we reduce the marriage counselling to every other week and that she see someone else individually. The problem with that is that she basically took that as he was siding with me and she stopped going to all therapy at that point.

Up until the depression, the talk of divorce or unhappiness with the marriage was minimal...We're talking once every year or two this would come up. It wasn't until the infertility and depression that it became monthly or weekly.

Again, thanks for all the input. I feel that you all are speaking the same and feel that she doesn't love me and that I should leave. Do you feel that I should be the one that moves out of the house, to make it easier on her? If so, do I come back if she asks me back (like she did once before)?
Posted 5/13/2013 10:31 PM (GMT 0)
JB1,
Don't be sorry...trying to make lemonaid as best as I can. She IS seeing a therapist now. As I stated before, I don't ask her any questions about it because it's not my business. So I don't know if she's been diagnosed with Depression. I do talk about depression with her sometimes and she doesn't deny it, so I can only assume that she's come to terms with that as a reality.

I've taken a different approach to my life in the past year which pretty much involves giving and never expecting. I've realized most of my pain, if not all, has come from me expecting an outcome that didn't happen. Then when things don't go our way we have self pity which just refuels pain.

So until I know that she it over her depression (or at least in control of it) my decisions will be for her. She has people she can turn to in her life, but I'm the only one that knows the level of her suffering. I won't make decisions that will cost me my sanity, it's just that I dedicated my life to her and that is not something I will let go so easily.

I hope that makes sense.
Posted 5/13/2013 10:37 PM (GMT 0)
Keep,
I apologize for misunderstanding your post. I thought you had said she wanted to leave either way. My bad.

Your decision I suppose would be based on your level of commitment. If you choose to stay, you might want to think about being involved in her therapy.

Peace
Trina
Posted 5/13/2013 10:41 PM (GMT 0)
BnotAfraid,
No worries at all...I know my posts are way, way too long and not organized enough. LOL

My level of commitment is very high!

I just don't know that I should, or even could be involved in her therapy. I don't know that it would be good since she views our relationship as the cause of her depression...so not sure....

Thanks again,
Posted 5/13/2013 11:59 PM (GMT 0)
If she view you relationship the cause of your depression, you would think that she would want to work on it to work on the depression. One thing I know, we own our depression. We can't blame somebody else for us being depressed. More times than not, the relationship failure is caused by the depression. Because we aren't thinking right, we aren't happy with ourselves. Often when the relationship ends, we are still depressed. But often we need to be alone to work things out. So space is needed.

I still have yet to read your first post. Being that you didn't use paragraphs, it is hard for me not to lose my place. I just wanted to comment on your last post before I forgot.

Hugs, Karen...
Posted 5/14/2013 10:56 PM (GMT 0)
Just wanted to give an update...
She came home last night. She apologized for being mean to me and said that she would be stopping by the house to pick up some items. When I arrived home from work she was there on her iPad. I asked if she wanted to eat dinner with me and she said it depended on what I was having. This pretty much meant yes. We then had dinner together, talked almost as if nothing happened. Then I asked if she wanted to stay at our house and she said yes. I asked if she wanted me to go with her to get her stuff from the other house and she said yes. I'd offered that I would sleep on the couch the day before, so when we got home I asked if she wanted me to sleep on the couch and she said no.

This morning I noticed in the trash that she'd started her cycle for the month. I honestly think that since her therapy has been going so well that, when the hormones shift started, coupled with Mother's Day and then that feeling like all the bad is coming back again just set her back.

As she's gotten older her cycles have cause a lot more changes in her mood. When I first met her, it was like nothing...she was the same all the time. After we got married it was more noticable. Then after the depression set in, it was basically an additional trigger the would send her on a low.

I likely jumped the gun on starting all this posting. It was just a suprised to me since she'd never moved out before. Everytime one of these incidents occurs I fear for the worst, but I just need to maintain consistancy and simply not do much talking when she's in a low.

I wanted to post here because I feel like I could benifit a lot from the experience of everyone here. For any of you suffering from depression yourself, how can I best help her when she's feeling down? Keeping in mind that she channels a lot of the pain and blame on me. Part of me thinks to simply avoid her as much as possible, but at the same time I want to be there for her if she wants to talk....

Again, I appreciate all your help!
Posted 5/14/2013 11:40 PM (GMT 0)
Don't walk on eggshells around her. Act as if nothing is happening. In a sense, ignore the elephant in the room. People who are depressed just want you to be yourself. They don't want all the attention on them either. Just be you. That is the best that you can do.

Hugs, Karen...
Posted 5/15/2013 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
Be yourself, let her be herself. Invite her to do the things you've always enjoyed doing together. Instead of wondering this or that about her and/or her feelings, ask her. Be prepared to accept that she just doesn't know.

It does sound to me like children are a huge issue in your lives. When the time is right, that is when it feels like you are both fully "present", I think you need to talk about it and either recommit to the marriage and to the IVF, or let things go.

I would never presume to suggest you go/stay/fight/etc -- only you know what is honestly in your mind & heart, and you cannot "guess" or "mind read" where your wife is -- you must ask her and trust that what she says is her truth.
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