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Fatigue/Ache vs. Pain ??

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Posted 1/30/2009 11:14 PM (GMT 0)
I'm just getting acquainted with the whole fibromyalgia thing, after having lupus for 8 years and now being almost in remission (per labwork & feeling better)....dr thinks my remaining issues are fibro. I have a question for you guys. A HUGE chunk of my symptoms is that my body almost always feels fatigued, exhausted, achy... that was better for a while but now is a bigger problem. It recently occurred to me that perhaps that feeling is what others might call pain? I have a fairly high pain threshold, and wouldn't really call this pain, but it is an all-the-time annoyance that goes away with pain medication. I don't want to take pain meds for a 2-3 on the 0 to 10 pain scale, but is that what you guys do? So; 1) Is fatigued, exhaustion, achy, allover body ache considered pain? 2) Do you guys take daily pain meds for allover constant pain at 2 or 3 level? Thanks for your opinions...
Posted 1/31/2009 12:05 AM (GMT 0)
Hello Lynwood,
As for me.....,
1) No, not for me. It's another symptom of Fibro.

2) Depends on where I am, wether at work or home doing nothing. I constantly feel something in the form of pain...slight,dull,sharp and it can be in one or all different areas of the bod. I have 2 pain meds to use, one that works for the lighter side of pain and the sore/achiness crud I feel and the other is a narcotic patch I use when I need some major relief.

Congrats on the remission,

Lori

Dx - Fibro 1-2008
Posted 1/31/2009 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I guess the interpretation of pain is very subjective. I feel as you have described almost all the time. For sometime I have realized what a high tolerance I have for pain in comparison to others. I used to feel very little pain even on a dentist visit, need very little novacaine. At times I do feel pain but most of the time achy. I will tell you that for me very few things alleviate my discomfort so be glad they do for you. I have posed the question to others on the forum about what they consider a flare. To date I stay at a very uncomfortable level all the time, nothing worse denoting a flare. I do not take any narcotics b/c my body does not tolerate them. I would describe my level as a solid 4 most of the time.

Hope this makes some chaotic sense.

Patsie
Posted 1/31/2009 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
I agree with patsie...is can be so subjective from person to person. I too wouldn't take narcotic pain meds for a 2-3 level of pain but the meds I do take bring me DOWN to a 2-3 level. That's the best I can' hope for, so doc told me.

That misery you describe is very typical of fibro. That almost flu like feeling that just gets in the way of enjoying your day. There are things that you can do to help. Talk to your doc about something to combat the fatigue. I take Provigil and it does wonders for me. It doesn't act like a stimulant but I don't keep falling asleep either. It has a short action time like 4-5 hours so if taken earlier in the day it won't keep you awake at night.

Hope this helps,
Chutzie
Posted 1/31/2009 2:35 AM (GMT 0)
One website described Provigil as a "Wake-promoting agent indicated to improve wakefulness in patients with excessive daytime sleepiness associated with narcolepsy." I am not sleepy, if I lay down I can't go to sleep -- instead I have insomnia that I take meds for. So I don't think that fits for me. A Web site said... The spectrum of available pain relievers has greatly expanded in recent years. Over-the-counter agents, such as aspirin, acetaminophen (Tylenol), and ibuprofen (Advil) are often enough for most people. They are especially effective for musculoskeletal pain, such as arthritis and chronic headaches, but can be hard on the stomach. New agents, called COX-2 inhibitors (such as Vioxx), offer the same relief but with a much lower risk for gastrointestinal problems. In people with moderate pain, stronger agents may be needed, such as the weak opiate narcotics like codeine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and fentanyl. These offer the greatest potency and the broadest spectrum of pain relief and are available in many formulations, including skin patches and lozenges. Time-released formulations of narcotic analgesics help to prevent pain before it begins. What I have is some low dose hydrocodine (well-known as Vicodin)...which I haven't really used since my former GREAT dr died and after 1.5 yrs I'm still undecided about what my replacement dr is doing. Wouldn't it make sense to start with trying non-narcotics instead? And what I forgot to mention is that taking the pain med this morning not only took that overwhelming fatigue away and left me feeling energetic, but it also made a huge difference in feeling/mood/depression whatever. Do any of you experiance that? Thanks for sharing your experiances,
Posted 1/31/2009 3:33 AM (GMT 0)
I know that vicodin will give you a little lift and you don't feel as tired. I take norco, which is vicodin, but 10mg instead of 5mg. I take it in the morning and throughout the day. I have to keep on top of the pain, or else I am playing catch up and the norcos take longer to work, if at all. This way works best for me. And they also give me a little lift, but I also take adderall for fatigue. It works well. It is dextroamphetamine and amphetamine salts. The doctors are getting so that they don't like to prescribe it for newer patients though because of the abuse.

So yes, vicodin can give you a type of energy. It does me also. I hope that you are feeling well and can keep your pain under control. I too have a high pain threshold. But the fatigue is what gets the best of me. My pain level is about a four with the norco. I can live with that.

Hugs, Karen
Posted 1/31/2009 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
I would describe myself as fatigued and achy most of the time. I do have arthritis in my hands and they down right hurt but the level depends on what I'm doing. I do not take narcotics, I have vicodin but I have never tried it. For one thing I have a med phobia and hate taking anything and I have heard some horror stories about how vicodin is addictive. I'm sure if I am ever in horrible pain I will try it.

 

Someone put a scale of the 0-10 pain chart on here recently and it described in words and pictures what each number meant. Of course now I can't remember what the name of the post was.

luv and hugs

Marlee 

Posted 1/31/2009 4:37 PM (GMT 0)

For me, Fibro is that overall general malaise (flu like feeling) along with some specific areas of "pain" that seem to migrate from one place to another (but generally reside in the large muscle groups and low back) and can be low level, or completely distracting.  I think the fatigue comes from the chronic nature of the pain.  It takes a lot of energy to constantly override pain! 

I don't take narcotic pain meds - I can't tolerate them.  That means that normal activity is just impossible on some days.  And that stresses and frustrates me which doesn't help the "relaxation" approach.  I too, would consider that I have a 2-3 pain level most every day - which creeps up with wonky weather and or stress.  I sometimes find that an Advil helps take the edge off.  And when it does, I experience a little spurt of energy as well.  In fact, my husband will often caution me to "slow down - remember you took Advil!"   If I do too much during that spurt of energy - there is a price to pay when it wears off.  My PCP has given me Darvocet to "keep on the shelf" for really bad pain.  I have gotten some good results from massage therapy, but they are short-lived.  At times it's very hard to distinguish which process is flaring....fibro or the AI stuff....or both. 

Lucy

Posted 1/31/2009 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Lucy,

The migration you mentioned is exactly what my pain does. It can move in a matter of hours and totally leave an area. Isn't this the most bizarre thing???? My worst area are the major muscles in the chest, ribs, legs and feet. As you stated a flu-like feeling almost all the time. Well put.

Patsie
Posted 1/31/2009 5:18 PM (GMT 0)

Yep, flu like symptoms are constant for me.  But every now and then, when I'm having what I call a flare, the pain gets pretty intense.  I would rate it at about a 7-8.  It migrates.  Today it's in a new and different place than usual.  My knee.  I never have pain there but today.. its really bugging me.  I usually have pain in my hands wrists, lower back, neck, shoulders, headache, chest, and of all the weird places - arm pits (almost like I've been lifting barbells - sheesh just the thought of lifting barbells make me shiver!!). 

So long a short of it, the fatigue causes a lot of the pain and if I don't listen to my body it causes a big time flare.

Hope that helps a little.

Posted 1/31/2009 5:28 PM (GMT 0)
Topic reminder --

1) Is fatigued, exhaustion, achy, allover body ache considered pain?

2) Do you guys take daily pain meds for allover constant pain at 2 or 3 level?
Posted 1/31/2009 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
1. Again this is a subjective statement. For many aching is very painful for others it is not. I can assure you the aches I have many people would call pain. I have told my son the aches I am having sould force him to want to leave his office. Pain for me is a sharp stabbing thing or nerve ending pain. We are all so different.

2. Absolutely I do not for a 2-3 pain level. I am a tough cookie though so may not be your best one to answer this. I hate the very idea of narcotics, raised by a great old Osteopath that taught me to really respect drugs....
Posted 1/31/2009 6:02 PM (GMT 0)
I feel as Patsie does.  Deep achiness can be very painful - and certainly as disruptive as other kinds of pain, but it is subjective - there is no single answer to that one.  And I consider it a distinct and separate symptom from the fatigue and malaise in the sense of applying a pain level to it.

And no - I would not medicate with narcotics for level 2-3 pain of any type.

And Patsie - I forgot about the chest/rib pain - it seems like the hardest to ignore!

Lucy

Posted 1/31/2009 6:45 PM (GMT 0)
Lynnwood, I don't take narcotics.  I do have Vicodin in my medicine cabinet but have never taken one.  I use Ibuprofen with food and extra strength Tylenol for pain.  I also use malic acid/magnesium supplements that help with pain and fatigue.  All the info about that is in the Fibro 101 thread...the second thread on the forum.

 

I recently started taking more vitamin D3...2,000 IU a day and it has helped with pain and fatigue, too.

 

Sherrine

Posted 2/1/2009 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
Wow! You guys have described exactly how I feel. Most days, I am extremely fatigued and achy. I get sharp pains in random places throughout the day, sometimes repeatedly in one area for a while. This feels like someone is beating on that particular body part with a hammer! I don't know the medical term for it, but my muscles always tire easily like I've been doing a full body workout. this is rough as an Art teacher because sometimes my arms get too tired to color (how funny does that sound coming from a 31 year old woman?). Before I was diagnosed, I was taking pain meds. It is amazing how easy it is to get a script for something like oxycontin or vicodin. I wasn't trying to get drugs, they were just handed out. Every doctor I saw just wanted to give me pain killers and steroids to band-aid the problem so I would stop calling the office. However, I learned my lesson with them when a terrible migraine sent me to the hospital and the nurse couldn't believe I was taking MS-Contin on a daily basis. This is when I decided to go off of the pain meds and of course that is what the doctor prescribed at the hospital for my headache. I quit cold turkey and all of the sudden, I was a person again. My boss who was not fully aware of my medical issues before brought it to my attention one day that I seemed much happier. I had not realized that in order to get rid of the pain, I was putting myself into a state of mind where I didn't feel anything or care about anything. this is not to say that pain meds aren't good for others, my body just can't handle them. I have heard good things about Provigil and I even took it for two days but it gave me migraines (or course) so my DR. made me quit. Needless to say, although most of our pain is similar, we obviously cannot treat it in the same ways.
Posted 2/3/2009 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
I'm the opposite of Cindy! hee hee, yeah we're all different. For me the pain killers help my mood since they take a lot of the pain away I feel like I can function! They make me happy.

For me I never take pain killers unless I can't function, which to be honest is about 7 days a week. But I try to take a day or two off without taking anything and just vegging at home in pain. I only take them if my pain is a 5 or higher. Every single day my achiness and soreness is about 4 on the pain scale. My exhaustion is sometimes about an 11, yes that one goes to 11. Some days it's off the charts. For my other pain that can range from a 4-5 to a 7 sometimes higher depending on how I deal with it. If I'm stressed out and emotionally can't deal nothing really helps at all. If I'm at home and can somewhat deal with it the pain killers can bring that 6 or 7 or higher down to a nice 4.

I told someone last week that while most people think a pain level of 4 isn't bad, try living with that every day all day. It's tiring. And that's what I am WITH pain killers. Without them I'm not sure what I'd do.
Posted 2/4/2009 5:00 AM (GMT 0)
Some of us do not produce enough natural endorphins when in pain. This is one reason why narcotics can be helpful in letting us function better throughout the day. So while we might feel better, we are not high. Heck if we felt high and without pain it might be better than we think. lol

I have daily severe pain so I take muscle relaxants, ssri's and voltaren. I am feeling much better than I have in years. However, there are days when nothing removes my pain. In addition, sometimes when I swim I feel absolutely horrible.

Oh, I get tired too.

I have had a cold for over the past three weeks. It is so hard to shake and even more difficult to acquire energy. With fibro and me, if it ain't one thing its another.

Donnaeil
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