Depression and Fibromyalgia

I think any of us with fibro can be hit hard with 'down' times, due to the constant fluctuations with fibro, plus everything else we must deal with in our busy lives. ...Though I wouldn't say I feel depressed.  It's just that as you know, fibro is difficult to deal with and an unfortunate constant 'companion.'

I know I can be breezing along, feeling generally good, then--WHAM--and something painful will hit, and I have to slow my body down and take it easy, due to muscle spasms. It's like the spider who has to rebuild a web and start all over again...and again... Just frustrating.

And it certainly doesn't help that people who we 'think' understand our health issues do not always understand, or even seem to care. I am fortunate, though, that my hubby and immediate family are wonderful.

I have one relative in particular who loves to fill me in on every detail as to how she's not feeling well, over and over again, and all the negative issues in her life. She also seems to enjoy trying to push my buttons, for whatever reason.

  I don't tell anyone how I'm feeling anymore, unless someone specifically asks, then I give general and vague info. I don't want to dwell on my health issues.  While I'm sympathetic with her health issues, hearing about them doesn't exactly lift my spirits, and I've tried for a long time to offer advice (seems to go in one ear and out the other).  That's all I can do to help her. Because this happens quite often, it can be somewhat of a negative, rather than a positive thing.  I've found I have to work to decrease the negatives and increase the positives, when I can.

Add to that--how many other difficult people who we cross paths with, and the everyday struggles we all have. Not a fibro issue at all, but life is never easy for most of us.

Personally, I'm feeling a little irked today by the response I got to an email. I'd sent a really interesting article (I certainly thought so, anyway!) to several people who I thought would enjoy it, and it was ignored by all but one person (article was unrelated to fibro, BTW).

 That person chose to be extremely oppositional and just weird about her response, reading WAY too much into the article to the point of putting words in the author's mouth, seeming to blame me somehow and for reasons unclear to me, etc.. Sheesh. I thought, "Huh??  WHERE is she coming from on that??" (And I've decided no more emails for this person--who needs the drama?)   

 Things like that just make me want to sit such childish people down and have a long talk with them about getting along with others and wearing her big-girl pants, much like you would with a 5 year old. Difficult people can, of course, contribute to the many stresses in life.

 Anyway, such things are, yes, stressful and just annoying, and if dealings like that are common or come up with other stressful issues and are on-going, I would have to think the result would eventually end up being depression.

  Anything like that going on in your life, perhaps--dealings with difficult people or other issues, maybe?  I do know stress can be very sneaky at times.

Maybe one of the best things we can do is to try to slowly sort through any issues which are bothering us, one by one, and try to find even tiny, baby-step solutions. I think we just do what we can, as we're able.

Of course, trying to maintain a positive attitude as much as possible helps, too. (Sherrine always has good ideas on this!)

Perhaps a doctor could hear you out and give you some direction, and perhaps some meds would help, too.

Don't know if this is much help; just some observations.

So sorry you're feeling sad today. Please know we all care and do keep posting! 

Thank you so much :) I did go out to have coffee with a friend and that was great esp since she also has fibromyalgia. I started nortriptyline a week ago and I'm upping my dose to 20 mg tonight so hopefully that will help some with mood. I agree, many of us deal with depression because our lives have changed,there is no going back to the way things were. But I believe the human spirit is resilient and with intention coupled with knowledge,we can create new lives.

Bella

Bella: I love your last sentence in your second post--very inspiring! :)

Have lived with depression since I was a young woman, maybe before. I have been on medications since my forties. I have been blessed in any ways with my wonderful children and grandchildren . So when I have gotten Fibro it's been so hard. People are so positive on this forum but when I hear statements like I hate for someone to complain and talked negative that I don't want to listen to their complaints it upsets me. Some people are just naturally positive. I try to be positive but lots of times going back to childhood severe abuse and neglect . It is hard so I guess you could say I'm negative always fighting to be positive but haven't succeeded very well. So if you have depression and get weepy I can relate to that so much. It is okay, you work on it but you are right to feel sad and Geary eyed. If you can't vent when you feel this way...it's going to make it worse. Get it out and cry, scream and then you work towards feeling better. A good friend will listen and care. I do.

Luvzinis

Know exactly what you mean about people that have no idea what we go through. They are jealous because they really don't understand when you are fighting every day to try to be positive but sometimes you just have to letit out or go off the deep end . People like that haven't a clue and they think aache or pain here and there is hard for them and they complain. If they spent a day in our shoes they may feel differently. I try to be positive because I know that is best but sometimes you just reach a limit. Some days I canbe positive and then it hits hard and I just can't manage it. That's why I love this forum everyone getsi it I hope all of us here can have the best life that we can.
Thanks for all of you here,you are such a comfort.

Thank you so much for all your support.

Today it took all I had to go to the movies for my husbands birthday.
I did ok but walked pretty slowly back to the car...he was happy that we went. Had to stop at the store on the way home to pick up just a few things and kept running into people he knows and wanted to introduce us. One of them I just kept walking (into the store, it wasn't too rude)
and inside I smiled but said nothing. I had NO energy to talk to people I don't know yet I'm sure it was puzzling to them.

It's an invisible disease isn't it.

Bella

If you are interested in the theories behind depression being frequently comorbid to fibro:

There are neurotransmitters that are low in fibro, which are also low in depression.

Also, both conditions have more pro-inflammatory cytokines.
It's kind of been assumed that anti-depressants helped by providing re-uptake of neurotransmitters, but for many years, it's also been known that anti-depressants can reduce the numbers of pro-inflammatory cytokines. (I don't tolerate htose meds, or they don't help)

It has been observed that some cases of depression were precipitated by an injury involving inflammation. If you've read much research about inflammation in fibro, then hopefully you kno that there are numerous kinds of pro-inflammatory cytokines found in fibro.

One of my favorite people to follow, a researcher from Belgium, is Michael Maes. He seems to love to debunk "in your head" theories. Like one about graduated exercise therapy (GET) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. He has done a very early fibro study on one inflammation marker and he also has this interesting study about autoimmunity to 5-HT in depression patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22166399

And he has done interesting research about how leaky gut (official name: intestinal permeability) lets things out of the gut, that shouldn't be anywhere but the gut (or in the toilet, lol). And that starts some immunity processes, and he connects that with depression. I'll try to find a link to that something aout that study and edit it in. I think I have posted it here before.
about the study--- and the comments are interesting>
http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2011/02/depression-and-leaky-gut.html

The study>
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18283240


A couple of things that help me with depression:
I sometimes take a supplement called 5-HTP. It has been used in a fibro study. It's a precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin, which is low in fibro. However, many meds will affect serotonin levels, and if you get too much serotonin, you can go into serotonin syndrome, which is bad. Wikipedia has good info on that. The tricyclic antidepressants like amitriptyline and nortriptyline are listed at wikipedia as affecting serotonin (see serotonin syndrome, I think). I happen to know that I tested in the "low" range in a urinalysis of neurotransmitters (pharmesan labs kit from my psychiatrist, and I shipped the very small sample to pharmesan labs), plus I take a relatively low dose of amitriptyline. It's wise to read up on all this, and know the signs of serotonin syndrome, if you are thinking of trying a supplement. Alternatively, since neurotransmitters are made from amino acids, be sure to include enuf protein in your daily diet. I recently included in a post some info about genetic polymorphisms ( and I think I spelled it wrong) that indicate there is an enzyme deficiency that affects making neurotransmitters.

If you internet search mood disorders (or depression) and hypothyroidism, you'll see that being low in thyroid hormone can affect us. It makes a big difference to me. My testing for years was only for TSH, Thyroid Stimulating Hormone from the pituitary. Tha's what most doctors were taugh, but it is wong. Once I got a better doctor, I had Free T3 and Free T4 and reverse T3 run also. A video lecture I recently listened to said to also test for Total T4, which is "bound". "free" means available. I may have had that tested also, but perhaps it's OK and never is mentioned to me.

Getting off of the typical prescription meds for hypothyroidism, levothyroxine, synthroid, which contain only T4 hormone, and switching to something with some T3 also, really helps me. Mine is a compounded mix of T3 and T4. Some people find their body does a poor job of removing the fourth iodine molecule, and converting the T4 into T3. T3 is the real power-horse thyroid hormone. I think (do we trust my memory? i think so) that T3 is 8 times stronger than reverse T3, so if you have too much reverse T3 taking up too many thyroid receptor spots, you're going to be slowed down. And every cell needs thyroid hormone to instruct it on its metabolism, and that includes your brain.

And two other things that can help my depression are regular exercise, usually walking or a gentle hike, and I can also benefit at times from a light for seasonal affective disorder (SAD). I bought a really big, really bright one. Some days I have to have a white gauzy scarf over it, cuz it seems overwhelmingly bright, but if you read the specs on them, some require that your face be 18-19 inches away. My light can be further away, and me, comfy, in a nice soft chair.

Post edit, 4 years later. Now I would not use the SAD (seasonal affective disorder) light that I used to use. Instead I strive to get more of the rays of the rising sun. The actual rising sun at the equator. Here in a southern U.S. location, i may not get my sun until 8 or 9 a.m. Early sun has short red frequencies (light waves, not particles)that are a match to 3 different frequency light windows of our mitochondria. (As per neurologist Dr Jack Kruse. He says this will help raise dopamine, while helping mitochondria function, which is bigger goal. Man made lighting tends to be blue light particles.

Now I would not use amitriptyline. It is toxic to mitochondria. I have seen a study abouf it from Cordero et al (they Also have fibro studies), and another team's study (can't recall any authors) and it is on "mitotoxic" lists. Because nortriptyline is like a step away from amitriptyline I do not trust it. Drug comoanies do not have to prove that meds are not mitotoxic.

Can't remember where I read this, but having more inflammatory cytokines can result in worse conversion of T4 thyroid hormone to T3. And TSH is also made in places other than the pituitary. I sure have learned a lot more in the last four years of patienting online.

Post Edited (Rockon) : 6/14/2018 12:21:24 AM (GMT-6)

I had an MRI done recently of my brain because of some tremors I was suffering. They found some white matter in my frontal lobe but wasn't worried. Curious I researched white matter there and found out it's normal for people suffering depression to develop white matter there.

Have you ever had MRI results like that?

Hi, I am new to this forum, but not new to fibromyalgia. I have lived with it many years. I consider myself to be a uplifting person with a fun personality. But I must say this disease along with my other illnesses has gotten me depressed once in awhile. Sometimes I feel that the nagging pain day after day just get's a bit much and I just feel like crying. It's OK, cause I needed it:)

Ps. Rockon, that was a kick ass post. Thanks!