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It's The Nervous System

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Posted 8/28/2014 2:58 PM (GMT 0)
The nervous system rules
It is important to remember that the nervous system has complete control over how muscles and soft tissue feels and moves. Soft tissue by itself is just a piece of meat. It is the nervous system that decides whether the muscles, tendons and fascia will shorten or lengthen, and whether it feels stiff or painful when doing so. If you took a drug to take the nervous system out of the equation, such as a general anesthetic, you would be left with a body that feels no pain and is far more flexible than you would imagine. A general anesthetic has no effect on muscles only the nervous system.

We should also remember that the main priority of the nervous system is to protect the body from tissue damage occasioned by falls, accidents, or other movements that could aggravate or cause injury. Having a psychological threat is even worse – unlike a physical threat these can be chronic and if you had too much stress as a child the system is hard wired for hair trigger arousal and muscle tension.

If you nervous system has been called on too many times in your lifetime to tense to protect you it can become stuck and turned chronically to the “On” position. This means pain, weakness, stiffness and muscle feedback to the central nervous system that keeps the whole process going.

If a muscle it tight too long you get pain and eventually weakness. You many not even feel tense as muscle tension can be an internal process you wont feel...

If you have Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, anxiety, IBS or any functional condition involving the nervous system you must stretch tight muscles for recovery. A relaxed muscle sends a message to the brain to stand down, stop tensing and protecting. If you have body pain and weakness equally important is calming the nervous system. It is impossible to stop muscle pain when the nervous system is stuck in arousal protection mode.

Unfortunately medications used to treat these conditions only cause further nervous system dysregulations and keep the conditions going. The only way to recover is to retrain the nervous system and muscles/soft tissue back to a healthy balance using ALL THE TOOLS on our website. These are not medicine based – meditation, stretching, exercise, Tai Chi, Chi Gong, counseling and much more. Today we know how to retrain the nervous and soft tissues back to health.

The nervous system is the slowest healing of all body and tissue systems, don’t be discouraged, it can take many months or longer of diligent work to restore balance to the system. The reward is no pain, no stiffness and a calm peace you may not have felt in years.


Department of Neurobiology and Anatomy | University of Texas Medical School
Posted 8/29/2014 1:19 AM (GMT 0)
This is a great explanation of fibromyalgia and makes complete sense. Thanks for sharing.
HEART
Posted 8/29/2014 2:02 AM (GMT 0)
I would agree with most of this theory. I had suffered many years with crippling GAD [Generalized anxiety disorder]. I used a cognitive behavior based program that consisted of a workbook and cassette tapes to get better. This program is still available today and is a great tool. I did well for a few years and then it returned. I once again had to find my way out of it using the tools from the program and the help of anti anxiety medication. I again recovered and as life would have it, in 2000 my life came unraveled.

My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, my step father left her after 17 yrs of marriage while she was gone for an hour grocery shopping, never to be heard from again. Took his things and left. While dealing with this, and trying to convince my mother we could get through it together, my wife of 10 yrs tells me, she wants a divorce. My nerves were shot. My world was spinning out of control. she left and took our 3 yr old son with her. Anxiety and depression was unspeakable, but this time it was different, Pain accompanied it. whole body pain that was intense and unforgiving.

14 years later, it is still here. Nothing like it was of course, because we find ways to cope and we try things to help and manage to get it to a dull roar. So to the newbies reading this, YES it can get better once you learn how to manage it.

With this said, I agree with this Theory in my case and probably some of you others had a similar stress situation to set it off or to Flip that switch in the nervous system to being stuck on. HOWEVER, it does not explain it for everyone. I know for a fact that Sherrine said hers came on during a period of nothing major going on in her life at the time. Sitting watching TV and moments later engulfed in PAIN.

So yes.... I have always believed in a stress connection, but not for everyone. I think it is way more complex than this, there is more to it and I have hope that they are getting closer than ever to solving the mystery.
Posted 8/29/2014 4:17 AM (GMT 0)
Had read recently about a latent virus of the nervous system....its is about the nerves but they do not seem sure of the how and why..

We must have a tool box full of coping strategies in the meantime.

Lj
Posted 8/30/2014 3:23 PM (GMT 0)
Michael

I also had fibro severely – recovered for over 15 years and then it came back worse for the past 2 years.

about people who “seem” to have no trauma onset. Dr. Robert Sapolsky at Stanford is the worlds leader in stress research...he says that tiny stressors can be more damaging than a big event. It is called Allostatic load and if the person grew up in what it called adverse childhood experiences they have a nervous system set for a crash in later years.
Posted 8/30/2014 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
I had fibro 20 years ago after severe stress. Recovered, and 20 years later it's back. Also after stress. This time I had lyme, mold and looking into mecury issues. I don't know what causes fibro. But I think stress, toxic load, environmental factors/toxins, diet genetics..all play a part

I think you can recover but it's not overnight. Detox, diet, supplments, stressors removed, decreasing inflammation, metal removal, dealing with microbrs and viruses and addresaing genetic detox shortfalls, restraining the brain.

That is my personal theory
Posted 8/30/2014 9:33 PM (GMT 0)
I am Sherrine who Michael referred to that didn't have a trauma onset. AND I had an absolutely idyllic childhood! My father had a wonderful job and we had beautiful homes. I had everything I needed and much of what I wanted but yet wasn't spoiled. We had many friends over for parties like our sledding parties and our square dance parties at Halloween. I could go on and on about my childhood...really!

My parents were so much in love with each other and always held hands when walking down the street and so on. They never argued...at least I never heard them...and they were a magnificent example for my brother and me.

So, needless to say, I don't agree with the doctor at Stanford. This could be true of some but you can't put everyone in the same box...especially with fibro. We are all so very different, our lives are different, what helps each of us is different, how each of us copes is different, and so on and so forth. This is why this illness is such a mystery. I'm diabetic. We all have basically the same symptoms, we have tests that let us know how our control of the disease is, and we have medications that we know will help us. Unfortunately, people with fibro don't have this. No wonder doctors are having such a hard time pinning this illness down and grasping at ideas in hopes they are correct. I'm glad to see the research and I do believe some day they will finally figure this out but I do know I don't fit this pattern that the Stanford doctor is saying.

Sherrine
Posted 9/7/2014 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
Sherrine, I absolutely see your point, and understand where you are coming from in the "we are all so different" argument. But I have to agree with NextAdventure and the doctor at Stanford, regarding the Allostatic load. That describes me to a "T", and I fit that pattern exactly. Couldn't be more right on. JMO
Posted 9/7/2014 7:38 PM (GMT 0)
I see your point too, Alicat. Thats why I said it could be true for some and it looks like you are one of the"some". LOL. But the title of this thread is It's the Nervous System and implies that this is the cause of fibro. It's THERE that I don't agree because I definitely do not fit the profile and many others don't either.

I do hope with this knowledge that you are able to get the type of help you need to help with your pain. Yes, we all are different, our lives are different and experiences, too.

Sherrine
Posted 9/8/2014 2:45 AM (GMT 0)
I don't totally understand your statement. Fibromyalgia IS CAUSED BY THE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM GOING HAYWIRE, due to stress, injury, illness, physical, mental and emotional strain on one's body over a period of time. All of my specialists in Dallas have verified that. Also I've done a LOAD of research on it myself, and EVERYTHING I've read points to the CNS and/or Sympathetic Nervous System. I've even had it explained to me that simply put, it starts by the end of a nerve fiber which "frays" upon stress, and by the time fibromyalgia comes on, all of the thousands of nerve fibers in your body are "shot". Like a hand with the fingers all together (healthy nerve ending) then over time becomes a hand with all the fingers fanned out (nerve ending blown apart). Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I've had brain scans, full body MRIs, lumbar spinal puncture, nerve conduction testing on my body, CT scans, etc. and been tested for just about everything you can think of. My neurologist even sent my bloodwork and spinal fluid to Mayo and UMass. With my history of bodily abuse (hard waterskiing for 8 years), very physical accidents, falls, jumps (off a 75 ft river cliff once), plus all the mental and emotional baggage I went through, I am a textbook case. I have every single symptom of Fibro. Starting with TMJ 15 years ago, vertigo, terrible daily headaches, ears ringing, dizziness, body aches, etc. Finally about five years ago I started having chest pains (which I now know are costochondrosis) but at the time my PC didn't know what to make of it for a couple of years. X-rays showed nothing, symptoms continued, all the while my spinal surgeon was telling me every few years that another section of discs in my back was gone from Degenerative Disc Disease. And there's nothing he can do to relieve the pain. Mentally and emotionally I was a train wreck, two failed marriages, countless high-pressure, stress-filled executive jobs, deaths, more men and alcohol than I could keep up with, illnesses, accidents, surgeries, instant menopause, with HORRIFIC HORMONE IMBALANCES!, family problems, huge lifestyle changes (my diary is that of a mad woman), all took a gigantic toll on me and I never had time to stop and deal with or decompress after a big drama, cuz I had to SURVIVE. I couldn't wait around for somebody else to help me, I had to do it myself because I was on my own. So YES, I believe I have blown out every single nerve fiber in my body because when I started exhibiting the "classic" symptoms - shoulder blade pain (originally blamed on herniated disc in neck), all over muscle pain, fatigue, etc. My spinal surgeon was the first to guess. Even my gynecologist figured it out. After consulting with a neurologist and my PC was when I saw the rheumatologist and she confirmed it. But it literally took three years to get full blown. I had been dealing with stomach issues, IBS, Vit D deficiency, etc. for years prior as well. So yeah, you could say that I believe NextAdventure is right on. The stomach problems, IBS, depression/anxiety and mental overload was definitely brought on from suppressed issues during my teenage years, and through college. My home life growing up as the youngest of five, with a single mother was one of survival, so that's where I get it, but it was TOUGH. There is a history of suicide and depression in my family so the genes are there. But I always felt loved. It was only when I went through counseling and therapy that I realized I had been very hurt by things that at the time didn't realize were harmful to me. So yes, the Allostatic load is very real. My therapist really wants me to write a book, she swears no one would believe it !! Thankfully, today, I am happily married, on disability since 2011 (thank God) and working through a lot of the $#*+ that happened in my life by finally TALKING about it. My husband is a treasure and a God-send, so I am truly blessed. We're not rich, but ok comfortable, no kids (again THANK GOD!) just precious pups who love unconditionally. I try to keep the stress and drama down and avoid difficult family situations when i can. So all that, the medications, rest, good medical care and a lot of reading and staying educated and informed gets me through the days. Well and my garden when it's not too hot, which in Dallas is only about 6 months out of the year! The weather in the south DEFINITELY TAKES A TOLL on my body !!!

Post Edited (Alicat105) : 9/7/2014 9:15:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/8/2014 5:09 AM (GMT 0)
Alicat,

I see you really have had a tough life, and what NextAdventure wrote does fit you to a "T," but that's not everyone's experience. It's not Sherrine's at all...and you seem to want to discount what she's saying.

I caught my sweatshirt on fire and suffered a 3rd-degree back burn when I was 13, (including skin grafts) and it wasn't too many years after that that I started having back problems, fatigue - and, painwise, it just went downhill from there. So maybe it applies to me, too - I kind of think it does, at least somewhat.

Of course, whatever we can do to stay calm and stretch and take good care of ourselves in general is all to the good, whether stress brought on our Fibro or not. I don't think anyone would argue with that.

I'm glad that your life is getting better, that you have a supportive husband to help you, and that you are working on all those issues that have made things so hard for you....you've been down a tough road, for sure.

Debbie
Posted 9/8/2014 7:58 AM (GMT 0)
Alicat, please read this link. It is an interview with Dr. Daniel Clauw who is one of the top doctors researching this illness. I do have this in Fibro 101 but some members may not have read it.

This link explains my position and it also is the position of doctors right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/health/healthguide/esn-fibromyalgia-expert.html

Sherrine
Posted 9/8/2014 1:03 PM (GMT 0)
Over 100 years ago fibro was called tension myalgia - also called anxiety tension state so they knew a century ago that the nervous system was the cause.

I don’t buy the pain spinal cord feed back loop hypothesis that is coming from some researchers. If it was just pain we would not also be stiff. People can have suicidal levels of pain and not be stiff.

There can be some bracing to protect the area but not this crippling body wide stiffness – that is from the brain soliciting the emergency threat response to the whole body and being stuck
Posted 9/8/2014 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
NextAdventure, please do not come here and state something as fact when it isn't.

Here is a link from the National Institutes of Health. There is no mention of anxiety tension state or tension anxiety so they did not "know that the nervous system was the cause". They still don't.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15361321&ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez


Here is a chart showing names given for fibromyalgia starting in 1592. Again I do not see the names anxiety tension state or tension anxiety.

Guillaume de Baillou 1592 Muscular rheumatism

Valleix 1841 Neuralgia

Froriep 1843 Muscle calluses (muskelschwiele)

Helleday 1876 Chronic rheumatic myitis

Beard [6] 1880 Neurasthenia

Gowers [7•] 1904 Fibrositis

Telling [8] 1911 Nodular fibromyositis

Schade [9] 1919 Muscle gelling (myogelosen)

Lange and 1921 Muscle hardening Everbusch [10] (muskelharten)

Albee [11] 1927 Myofacitis

Murray [12] 1929 Myofibrositis

Clayton [13] 1930 Neurofibrositis

Rowe [14] 1930 Allergic toxemia

Halliday [15] 1937 Psychogenic rheumatism

Gutstein-Good 1940 Idiopathic myalgia

Good 1941 Rheumatic myalgia

Mayo Clinic [16] 1950 Tension myalgia

Randolph [17] 1951 Allergic myalgia

Travell et al. [18] 1952 Myofascial pain syndrome

Gutstein 1955 Myodysneuria

Muller [19] 1970 Generalized tendomyopathy

Awad [20] 1973 Interstitial myofibrositis

Hench [21] 1976 Fibromyalgia syndrome


Lastly, this link from the Mayo Clinic backs up what the link from Dr. Clauw that I posted in my last post said.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/fibromyalgia/in-depth/fibromyalgia/art-20048097

What you are saying is not fact even though you say it is. You need to be careful about that.

Sorry about the change of font. I didn't do a thing and it doesn't even show now while I'm editing this!

Sherrine
Posted 9/8/2014 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Sherrine, I'm sorry, but you're just hilarious. You point everybody to ready Fibro 101 and Dr. Clauw's research over and over again but I don't even think you have fully grasped what he is saying. In the first page of the link, in the interview, first paragraph, he states it perfectly: A: Fibromyalgia is real. But the pain isn’t occurring because of damage or inflammation in muscles and joints. "It’s the result of differences in the way the brain and spinal cord process and transmit pain." It’s as if the volume control is turned up on pain.
The sentence I put in quotes is all anybody needs to hear to know fibromyalgia is all driven by the central nervous system. The brain and spinal cord "Process and transmit messages" through the rest of the body USING NERVES. Everything in your body is driven by NERVES - the five senses, etc. tell the brain what's what, by using nerves and nerve endings. Nerves run all through the muscles. THEY ARE ALL INSIDE THE SPINAL CORD STARTING FROM THE BRAIN, AND RUNNING OUT INTO AND ALL OVER THE BODY. Nerves communicate EVERYTHING in the body, thoughts, feelings, pain, emotions, etc. Fibromyalgia is absolutely a condition of the central nervous system being whacked out. The nerves in the muscles are shot, causing pain, all over the body or just in some areas. All of the reasons listed in all the medical data I've read says the same thing. And all of my doctors confirm. People may have different symptoms, issues, etc., but the one thing REAL fibromyalgia patients have is PAIN and pain is caused by the NERVES TELLING THE BRAIN THEY HURT !!! From our fingertips to our toes, our entire body is covered in this epidermis that has nerve endings attached to it. And all the insides do us as well, muscles, tendons, ligaments, bones, etc, are all wrapped with nerves. It's not that difficult to understand. There are a thousand different factors that can cause the nerves to blow out, and create pain, but the one thing remains the same: they all tell the brain when there is PAIN, mental or physical. From a burn to a fear, from a scraped knee to a sudden loud noise, a message is sent to the brain via the central nervous system, the body's "messenger". Whether it's caused from illness, injury, divorce, death or whatever, the nerves take a toll on everything the body and the brain go through, emotional, physical, mental, psychological, etc. If you believe in Dr. Clauw's assessment, then go back and read that sentence again, because that's exactly what he's saying. "It’s the result of differences in the way the brain and spinal cord process and transmit pain." Well, What are "pain transmitters? NERVES. Period. End of story. It's the Central Nervous System. If you honestly don't believe that, then why in the world are you here?!

Please don't jump on NextAdventure for his writings in this forum, that's not fair. This is an open forum that allows people to share experiences, information and get help. NextAdventure is a medical professional; I assume he has studied the anatomy and how we are put together anatomically and all the systems that keep us moving, nervous, digestive, muscular, skeletal, etc. I don't see in your short bio where you have studied medicine so please don't discount his information. It's excellent. I don't know how you could possibly question it. However, from your writings, I question whether or not YOU actually have fibromyalgia, or if your symptoms are a direct link to one of your other conditions. You certainly don't fit the Fibro profile as I've seen it over and over again. Jmo.
Posted 9/8/2014 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
I find the many theories as to the cause of fibromyalgia really interesting!

 It does seem, though, that in general, the jury is still out as to what causes it. I just did a quick search on "What causes fibromyalgia?" and there are numerous thoughts on this, from many varied health sources.

I'm glad when people post the latest thoughts that the medical community (or other sources) come up with. While we all may not agree with the theory being discussed, maybe it takes us a bit closer to pinpointing the truth.  I know I have seen many posts on various theories on the cause since I joined this forum in 2008, and though I, personally, have not bought into any one of them, they all do seem to be part of the 'puzzle' of fibro, at least to some extent.

One of these days, I hope we'll see the whole picture of this 'puzzle,' followed shortly by better ways to deal with all the fibro issues.  Better yet, maybe we'll see the way(s) to avoid getting fibro in the first place.

Posted 9/8/2014 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
And again, in your message above to NextAdventure, you have contradicted yourself, stating nowhere in ANY of these studies does is say anything about "tension anxiety, etc". However the Mayo Clinic study clearly shows "Tension Myalgia".
No, there is no cure for fibromyalgia and yes, it does tend to baffle many doctors because different people have so many different symptoms. But they all lead back to the CNS and unfortunately, once those nerve endings are blown, they're gone baby! So all we can do is treat the pain, help the symptoms to not be so present, and avoid stress to our bodies, both mental and physical. Personally I take joy in relaxing in different ways (I hate any type of exercise) and meditation is a joke because I can't turn my mind off, but I can at least turn it away by reading, watching TV, writing, cooking, gardening, decorating or anything else that doesn't require too much physical activity, or uncomfortable weather conditions. My biggest problem is stopping before I'm over-tired and I'm learning to pace myself better. I used to be "Mach-12 Hair on Fire" all the time and NOW it feels good to just sit and BREEATHE sometimes.....
Posted 9/8/2014 5:01 PM (GMT 0)
I'm locking this thread. There's no need to be rude, Alicat. Please look at the forum rules. You agreed to abide by them when you joined this forum.

Debbie
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