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Robin and Rose - want to compare notes on healing from spine surgery

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Posted 9/21/2012 6:31 AM (GMT 0)
Hi, guys (and anyone else who's had spine surgery) -

I've been getting bummed and a little freaked out for the past week or so because it seems I'm just not progressing like I should anymore.  I skipped my PT exercises completely on Monday, and tonight again (I do them twice a day) because they seem to be causing more pain around the rupture site than they were. 

Maybe it's because I twice spent 2 hours shopping recently.  That's the only thing I can think of that's different...but it's not THAT different.

Well actually, there are a couple of new exercises that might be the culprit, too...and an older one, squeezing a pillow between my knees...so I quit doing those.  Just have to be patient, I know, but it's been 6 months!  I'll see my physical therapist next week.  She's really good.  I'm going just every 3 weeks now because we want to prolong my treatment, since insurance will only cover 3 more sessions.  

Did you have setbacks like this, pain-wise??  Robin, I know your surgery was 10 years ago, it's probably hard to remember - Rose, I believe yours was right after mine....so you're probably still in the thick of it too.

Thanks for any insight.

Debbie

Posted 9/21/2012 2:54 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Debbie...I can offer a bit of insight as I've had 3 fusion surgeries (two levels each time) over the last 11 years.

And I still have severe herniations in two levels in my lumbar region and one in lower cervical/upper thoracic.

So even though I haven't had the lumbar surgery yet, it's the same type of surgery and recovery as far as good days and bad ones.

And I think you found some of the reasons you are having greater pain. The long shopping trip. 2 hours, especially if you were pushing a cart because when you turn corners/aisles with it, unless you have an extremely strong core (nice 6 pack..lol)...those movements are being led by your lumbar muscles instead of the stomach muscles as they should be.

Same thing with adding in new exercises....this is going to tweak the muscles and nerves in the areas where you are recovering.

I would certainly discuss all this with your Dr....but it sounds pretty normal as it can take up to a full year or more for a fusion to take place.

And during all these months since your surgery....you are growing "adhesions/scar tissue" around the metal/titanium that was used in the fusion. This can tug and cause pain when moved the wrong way as well.

My mom had lumbar surgery back in 1985....and from the first year on...she would have some bad days thrown in there and even some where it was pain like before the surgery. But she would rest a few days....slowly start walking again, and then it would settle back down.

That's the way it is for me right now because my Neuro and I are trying everything possible to avoid a 4th surgery.

The other key and one of the absolute and most important one is ALWAYS watching your bending, twisting, and lifting. This is something that you will have to be cognizant of from here on out to prevent further injury.

Anyway...just wanted to share a bit of my own experience.

Do you have a muscle relaxer as a prescription to take as needed? These can be very helpful from time to time to help after a bad day. Or, now that you are far out time wise from your surgery....even some good doses of ibuprofen to help with inflammation.

Keep us posted..
Posted 9/21/2012 3:15 PM (GMT 0)
Debbie....10 years later after surgery, my back is still prone to pain if I strain it by lifting something the wrong way or bend the wrong way to pick something up. My back will go out on occasion and I've had episodes of sciatica too. The surgery was necessary because of the ongoing sciatic pain. You remember how bad that pain was?

I did the PT route for a few months... but I found that walking made me feel stronger, but I still have to be careful. When I overdo my lower lumbar region has a tendency to swell and it will turn black and blue like a bruise.

Once you have back issues with degenerative discs there's that opportunity for pain or injury. Twisting, bending and lifting are things that we do all the time and it causes wear and tear.

I use moist heat on my lumbar area most everyday. Just this past week, I've been experiancing spasms...I can account for that...pulling weeds in my flower garden. Saw rheumy yesterday and got a refill for Flexeril...it helps.

Debbie, having crummy backs, we have to be super aware of our actions or we pay for it...it is an ongoing thing, just like fibro. How does walking work for you? Hope you feel stronger soon, my friend.

How are you doing Rose?

Hugs, Robin
Posted 9/21/2012 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
Just wanted to add one thing so that people are aware...It's important to learn what pains are what with our bodies because if it's sore muscles....then the moist heat and the muscle relaxer are best.

But if it's inflammation, then you should not use any heat and only use ice/cool gel pack and then the ibuprophen.

The reason this is so imporant is that heat on an area that has inflammation will make it ten times worse with both pain and cause more inflammation.
Posted 9/21/2012 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
I've had two back surgeries (herniated lumbar discs). I don't think I ever felt like I had completely "recovered." I have new back issues now, but before those, I did reach a stage of feeling somewhat normal, but I always had (have) to be very careful of aggravating my back.

I didn't really feel like PT helped me that much; in fact it often seemed to make me worse. My surgeon told me that walking was the best thing I could do, and I do feel like that helped the most.

I think once you have back surgery, it is kind of like a weak link in a chain. You always have to be conscious of it and be gentle with it. I was in extreme pain and couldn't walk (because of pain) before my surgeries, and that definitely got better. I did still have issues, but my surgeries made me able to get out of bed, so even with some pain, I still feel like the surgeries were successful.

I read a study (I'm sorry; it's been so long ago I wouldn't know where to find it) that showed that the recovery time for back surgery (as reported by patients) was much, much longer than physicians predicted/told their patients. I found that to be true for me.

I agree about the bending and twisting. I still have to be very conscious of not doing those. Also, did they teach you how to get out of bed in the morning (Roll onto your side, swing legs over side of bed, push body up with arms)? That was a biggie for me.

With back issues, I believe that it is a marathon and not a sprint. I do hope you feel better soon.

Hugs - Austen
Posted 9/21/2012 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
Snowbunny, I didn't have a fusion (sorry, didn't make it clear) just a discectomy, so I'd expect a quicker recovery. I don't know the percentage of disc I have left, the surgeon just said it was large piece that broke off and had lodged on the Sciatic Nerve.

I don't push a cart around, it was just one of those little Kohl's ones (empty) so weight's not a factor. Just static standing, which I know is hard on us...but I've been building up on that time-wise for months.

Robin, I don't twist or lift much, I still hardly ever bend, and I definitely don't weed the garden (I wish!) I do walk most days, up to 8 minutes. I am having some back and general fibro pain too, which I almost take as a good sign - that I'm moving more normally (for me, that is.) But what's bothering me is the Sciatic pain and numbness - butt, foot, and leg. I just don't understand why that should be worse again.

I've been doing PT religiously every day for months, increasing the reps. Maybe a day off now and then is ok, even beneficial? I'm just worried that the surgeon is going to want to do another MRI.

I know ~ don't borrow trouble!! Thanks for responding.

Oh, just read your response, Austen, and yes, I agree...definitely a marathon!

Debbie

Posted 9/21/2012 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for reminding me on what surgery you had done...

Unfortunately any type of surgery does not guarantee you won't continue to have sciatic nerve pain from time to time.

Hopefully they won't bother you with another MRI. I would think that would only be necessary if you were in excruciating pain 24/7 and it is getting worse and worse every single day to where you can't even get out of bed.

Again...with any type of spine issue or any type of surgery.....as mentioned, it's pretty much something we have to watch out for the rest of our lives.

Hopefully it will ease up or the PT can offer some more specific stretches for you and tell you to stop others during the times you are in greater pain.
Posted 9/21/2012 4:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Debbie,

You are right I did have my surgery right after yours, march 26 and in the beginning it was heavenly such low pain levels but I have to admit now I did not have the best home situation.

I wish I could say I have massive amounts of energy and I am exercising building back my strength but I have had one set back after another. I just got into physio therapy when my hip acted up and I was back using a walker, after a few weeks of that I got a cortisone shot and within a couple of days I was able to move but it is far from pain free.

I had 2 of my grandchildren stay the entire summer with me so going to physio was beyond reasonable as I could not afford a babysitter to go and in honesty I had zero energy anyway. I finally got my doctor to run bloodwork and my iron level is extremely low and my tsh is extremely high. My thyroid is not working so I am on another med that is making me nauseous so I am again not very active.

I feel all I do is whine if its not one thing it's another, and of course during most of this time I am in a fibro flare. I can not use ice sorry I know I should but all it does is makes me hurt even more, I dream of getting in my tub and soaking but hopefully I can hot tub it when I start at the YWCA.

Debbie I want to try to sound upbeat and positive but I am in pain everyday and I am having my doctor check with the surgeon about the bent screw in my back if that could be causing the increase of pain. I can not bend over at all I use my grabber, I have major numbness in my legs fells like they are asleep. I went to a mall last week with my hubby and ever since my back has been even more sensitive and the 8 hours of being in ER on Tuesday did not help because they kept moving me from bed to chairs not one comfortable spot there to sit or lie.

I do stretching in my bed before I get up, moving my enormous body is tiring I have never been this big before even during pregnancy carrying 9 1/2 pound babies. I started my pain journey many years ago and always managed to stay in size 10 to 14, 16 at my heaviest and now I am in 4xl, I eat healthier than I ever have. I try to use my treadmill but 5 minutes is all I can currently do so I try to do this at least 3 times aday.

Debbie I wish you the best and think perhaps you are being a bit hard on yourself, sometimes our bodies have a way of slowing us down. I spent most of my life running around after children and then in management always saying no time to rest, busy hands are happy hands. I ignored my health for many years and I now am being forced into accepting I do have limitations.
Posted 9/21/2012 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
Oh Rose,

I'm sorry you're still having so much pain. You have had a time of it. I remember how you were feeling so much better right after surgery as you said, and you overdid it. I didn't realize you had a bent screw in your back. Don't you wish you could just press a rewind button sometimes?!

I'm hoping that's all I did, overdoing it, I mean. Just talked to my therapist and she said to give it a couple of days with just doing the very basic stretches that we started with and see how that goes. And to make the appt. with the surgeon  sad to be on the safe side...the fact that I'm having numbness again bothers her a bit.

Waaah, Ricky! (a little comic relief for us oldies)

Debbie
Posted 9/21/2012 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
Debbie, I have permanent numbness down the front of my right leg from the knee to the ankle...that leg is much weaker than my left one....ended up with nerve damage due to the prolonged sciatica, at least I don't have the dropped foot anymore. Six months after my laminectomy, I had lumbar puncture and myelogram...they put contrast in, put me on a tilt table and did CT scans...checking for spinal stenosis...I didn't have any impingents...they summed my numbness up to nerve damage from prior impingement.

You may have inflammation going on causing the sciatica. I'm glad you are getting it checked out. Good Luck!!!

Hope you ladies find pain relief soon

Hugs, Robin
Posted 9/21/2012 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
I have never had back surgery but I have had sciatic nerve problems and was helped greatly with ibuprofen and a muscle relaxer.  I'm sorry all of you ladies are going through this.  Makes you wonder about this type of surgery.  I haven't heard of too many success stories.  I do hope you all are better now than before surgery, though.  Prayers are heading your way.

 

Sherrine

 

 

Posted 9/21/2012 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
I still consider my surgery a success as I was in total agony before my surgery, I walked bent over and now I can stand taller..ish lol. I did not mean to give anyone the wrong impression.
Posted 9/21/2012 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
I'll add that I think my surgeries were successful as well since I don't have the terrible nerve pain I once did and even though I have diminshed strength in both arms/hands, it could have been much worse. And spine surgeries are about fixing a mechanical issue as it's primary goal...pain relief is secondary.

My only bad surgery was the second fusion.

We also have to keep in mind that we are the 15% that have chronic pain after these type of surgeries or have other health issues...

There are actually very good statistics on spine surgery these days. Even 85% of people with spine issues have their symptoms resolve on their own or with non surgical treatment.

Boards like these or the chronic pain board show the smaller percentage of those like us.

But as others mentioned...it's a marathon and not a sprint with recovery and making sure that we are doing everything we can to stay healthy and make the recovery a good one:)
Posted 9/21/2012 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
This is good to hear! I'm glad you are better after the surgery. After all, that's what we are aiming for.

Sherrine
Posted 9/22/2012 2:04 AM (GMT 0)
I had cervical fusion in 05. 4 levels, rods, cadaver bone, the works. I never did pt after. It left me with: khyphosis, radicuopathy, and scoliosis.

There is a chance I may have to fuse L5S1. The two above aren't looking so great either. I have numbness, and pain. After the cervical, I'm really going to need to think hard about it. Plus both knees need replaced, so how does that all work together?
Posted 9/22/2012 10:26 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks everybody, for responding. Surgery is definitely not always a positive thing. I couldn't function before mine, so I feel like I had no choice....definitely better off than I was then, hope it stays that way.

Debbie
Posted 9/22/2012 11:14 PM (GMT 0)
Debbie I think if you can be patient and when you are able to do exercises do not push yourself too hard that you will find you will enjoy the results. I find on days when I can move about if I push myself I just get knocked back down but if I stop and say that's enough for today I am in much better shape the following days. I am not over patient with myself so very seldom listen to my own advise.
Posted 9/23/2012 12:09 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, I know what you mean - it's an easy concept in theory, but not so much in the real world!
Posted 9/24/2012 3:13 AM (GMT 0)
Two months' ago, I spent five days in the hospital with excrutiating pain from bulging disk impinging sciatic nerve at L3/L4. Had an MRI with contrast and brought a neurosurgeon in to look at the films and consult. I was ready to do just about anything, as you all well know, the pain was simply unbearable. The only thing I could do was lie on my left side with a bag of ice on my back and narcotics pumped into me every two hours which did NOT take away the pain, simply made it somewhat tolerable. The neurosurgeon recommended NO surgery. He said that if I was willing to follow three steps: take a Medrol dose pack, get an epidural and then do physical therapy, I had an 80% chance of recovery...yes, that is the success rate now doing those three things together so yes, I was so hopeful and very willing to do it. The epidural and the Medrol worked well enough to get me out of the hospital. I still had pain, but I was able to walk with a walker and continue pain pills and ice packs. After three weeks, I began physical therapy. The neurosurgeon explained to me that I needed to strengthen my core, the muscles in your abdomen which is key to supporting your back. I had done PT in the past, but no one had ever worked on core strengthening and so I always ended up walking away. I am now two months' out and so far, so good. I'm not going to tell you I am living pain free but certainly so much better than two months' ago. I am able to take walks, 40 min being the longest one. I do still have numbness and tingling in my leg but the neurosurgeon has told me the nerve is not damaged, just irritated, so I am hoping it will go away. I have also lost 30 pounds over the past year which no one has told me to do, but I realize that additional weight is just not good for our backs, knees, hips, feet, etc.
Hopefully, I won't have to go the surgery route...
take care
Miriam
Posted 9/24/2012 6:17 AM (GMT 0)
That's great, Miriam! The core strengthening is the kind of PT I'm doing, too. My therapist says that even if I do have another disc problem, this would still be what they recommend...that having a strong core would help any other issue that came up.

SO, even though it doesn't always feel right - I guess it's the way to go. I'm starting back up, gradually.

40 minutes - that's incredible. I'm only up to 8 (I mean without stopping. I've walked and stopped and walked a lot longer, but haven't timed it.) Anyway, good for you! I'm glad you haven't had to have surgery.

Debbie
Posted 9/24/2012 12:28 PM (GMT 0)
Morning,
Debbie, I failed to mention, I have MULTIPLE levels (lumbar) of disk degeneration, plus spinal stenosis, and spondylolethesis (sp?) at L5/S1. When I went to the neurosurgeon for a follow up, he told me he NEVER makes a decision concerning surgery based on what the spine looks like on MRI, only by what the patient tells him. He asked me a few questions and then asked "can you live with this?" At the time, I was only able to walk about a block or two and told him that I had a hard time with that, that my walks were very important to me. He told me he felt I would be able to take them again. In any case, I LOVED that here, a SURGEON was NOT talking surgery. He recommended another epidural. I have not gone back yet for the second one because I feel I am improving, albeit slowly. Yes, I did a 40 min walk, but... it was just one. I don't have to tell you with fibro...so there are days when my back feels "pretty good" and I venture out, but then fibro stops me cold...just no energy. It's very frustrating. I am hopeful I can build back up one day so I can take my walks on a regular basis again.
Debbie, it does sound like you are improving. I think we just never feel it is quick enough. I never expected to still be at this point. My right leg is still weak. I Have trouble climbing stairs because of it but as I said, I am grateful for what I can do. As much as I did not believe in phys therapy before, I am now a believer. A strong core does support your back...not saying it's a guarantee.
Anyway, have a good today!
M
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