Questions about symptoms

Hello all.  This is my first time posting.  I found you last March and have been lurking since.  I hope this post is not out of place, but I am kind of at wits end.

My fiance is in his mid-50s and has been drinking for about 43-45 years.  We have been together for five years and he is significantly older than me. We go through spurts where we don't drink at all; we go through spurts where we casually drink (a couple beers every few days) and he goes through spurts where he drinks alot (12+ beers in a day).  For years before me, he drank quite a few beers about every day.

I have researched, probably to the point of paranoia.  I have looked at every picture of certain symptoms I could find.  I am constantly looking at his eyes, his tongue, his nails, his belly, his palms, his ankles/feet.  If I see him scratching, I watch to see if he scratches more.   

Over the holidays, I actually quit focusing on it until he mentioned to me that "his liver enzymes must be elevated because his palms were pink."  This was right after his Christmas party and then he didn't drink until New Years.  I had no clue he even knew what pink palms meant.

I can't talk to him about it, because he thinks that all I do is analyze him for something wrong. If I say something about getting healthier, he'll go along for a little while.

I have a couple questions about symptoms that I thought maybe you all could help me with.

Jaundice---I think I have looked at at least 100 pictures of jaundice and I can't tell if he has it.  Is it really obvious in the eyeballs.  Some days I look at his eyes and think "they aren't white."  Everybody else has crisp white eyes and sometimes his aren't.  Some days I would say they aren't "yellow" but they aren't white.  Sometimes, his forhead seems a little yellow, but then he will get color (I have never seen this in my research---it seems all the signs of jaundice is that it may stay for days or a month, but not jaundiced one day, not the next, jaundiced the next).  If someone is jaundiced, do you know it right off the bat?

Ascites--My fiance has a belly, always has had somewhat of a belly, but it seems more pronounced.  My understanding is that it could be a certain type of fat.  Of course, I am looking and I can see some veins on the right side.  I would say it did not increase overnight.  For the last two months, it has seemed bigger.  But during one of his times of not drinking he was eating alot and that tends to be where he stores fat.  I don't see much muscle degradation on his body.  Again, will I know ascites when I see them.  I have seen pictures that are extreme and that isn't him.  But then I will come across one and I'll be like. . . that looks like him.

He has some other symptoms of liver disease (especially at certain times) but he doesn't have others.  

I am sorry if I am imposing. . ..I just know you all have alot of experience.  Any advice would be so helpful. 

 

Hep,

Thanks for the reply. He is not keen on doctors. When we first started dating, he had bad sleep apnea. I got him to go to the doctor and he got a breathing machine. Lately, I have been trying to get him to go back to the doctor and get an updated machine. ..but he keeps making excuses (I figured if it was really obvious, this doctor would see it). Also from about 1 1/2 years to six months before we became engaged, he kept saying that before we got married, he was going to go get a thorough physical so that I would know what I was getting and could run if I wanted. One day, I said that I thought that it was a good idea for him to get the physical, that no matter what they said, I wouldn't run, but that he was past due for one. He hasn't mentioned it since. I think my paranoia has made him discount me and I don't know if I can get him to a doctor.

If he went to see a doctor and the doctor told him he had cirrhosis, I have no doubt that there would never be alcohol in our house again. If he went to the doctor and the doctor said he didn't have cirrhosis (but even had fatty liver) he would see it as a green light.

I posted today because he mentioned this morning that he needs to get his things in order in the next three weeks (I wonder if that meant next three months). He also said something odd on New Years about having a drink anyway. . . .and then of course, the pink palms comment (which also surprised me because I had last checked his palms a few weeks before that, and they looked fine).

But I also wonder if this is just me. My mom was an alcoholic and a few years ago we had an intervention. She went to rehab and is doing marvelously!! I wonder if I am just tuned to worrying about someone dying from alcoholism. I don't think I worried much about my fiance when my mom was drinking. She was in bad sorts and we worried about her life and had reason to. I just wonder if I am so tuned to seeing that and used to worrying about that, that I am making something out of my fiance that doesn't exist. That really I have a behavioral problem.

When I first read the "how bad is my liver post" I went home from work and did nothing but stare into his eyes. . . .I couldn't quite figure out how part was yellow and not all. . .but then. . .. .

I think your fiance knows more than you think.  Trust your gut.  My feeling is that he doesn't want to go to the doctor because he will be told to stop drinking--and he's not ready.  If he stopped drinking--and stayed stopped--he would have a good chance of living many years.  Without stopping--not so much.  He's been drinking a long time, so it's sure to have affected his liver and other organs.  You may be more attuned to something going on with him because of your experience with your mom--but I don't think you're imagining things or being paranoid. 

Hugs,

Connie

Philosophy, here's how I would handle it:  Say nothing at all to him for several weeks about his "possible" symptoms.  Pay attention to what he is saying, not to his physical appearance.  In other words, stop what you have been doing!  Then, in three weeks or so, casually mention that you'd really like for him to have a checkup and blood work...that you care for him so much that you want to make sure he's okay.  Tell him you will make the appt. for him and even go with him, if he'd like you to.  Make it seem like it's all your idea.   If he resists, there's not much you can do but wait until he has a crisis.  You really can't make people do things.  And you certainly can't make him stop drinking.  He has to want to do it.  It might not happen until he literally cannot keep the booze down.  And by then, it's probably too late.

Read Cameron's thread and the responses.  Cam is in a similar situation.

Hugs,

Connie

Hep, thanks again!

You know, I read Cam's thread and actually viewed it the opposite of as you see it--it made me feel silly for worrying about my fiance. I will call him MFi. I am just worried that he will see this somehow and be mad.

The way I viewed that thread (with all my junk)---was far different. It certainly triggered me and reminded me of my mom and the absolute control that they allow alcohol to have over them (even though at that point she wasn't aware that she was allowing it-- she certainly felt it controlled her. . . except when she was asked to quit and which time of course she said she didn't have a problem and could quit anytime she wanted) --physically, emotionally etc.. The alcoholism, health decline and life-threatening emergencies governs the life. It is so moment by moment, drink by drink, bottle by bottle. I was not with mom daily, but my heart feels for Cam (I think someone mentioned Cam might be the guy??), the caretaker. I have no words to show the true understanding of how tough that must be. We (my siblings and I) got to the point where we just couldn't do what we did anymore. We couldn't pick up the pieces; we couldn't live that life. We would do anything to help her get healthy; but if she was going to drink herself to death, we got to the point where we had to let her make that choice. (and she did have dad) Ultimately (as it was not a clean intervention and trip to rehab) we saw how much she loved us (ok and especially the grandbabies) and herself. I was prepared for things to end different--and perhaps for us to be without a mom and perhaps even a dad.

I couldn't do that to MFi. If MFi were that taken by alcohol the way mom was, I just don't think I could leave him. I don't think I could give him the ultimatum on attention (we always told mom we would love her no matter what--we just wouldn't support her behavior or interact with her while she was using).

As I see it, he isn't like that. Alcohol is like MFi's stuffed teddy from childhood. The teddy was played with daily for years. . .and the result of the alcohol on MFi is like the result of the playing is on the teddy, we look at it closely for any signs of tear or stuffing showing or scratches on the button eyes and we have absolutely no idea how strong the threads are--at any moment it may fall apart. Maybe our memories of the torment on teddy are wrong? Maybe the bear was made better than we thought? And . ..MFi doesn't need to see his stuffed animal everyday. . . or even everyweek. ..he may still play with it when he is down. ..he may take it out for old times sake. . .every once in a while he will revert to restless kid and kick it around too much. . .but it seems be enough most of the time that it is just there. . . .so long as it is there, Just In Case, . . .

My mom's choices/behavior was bad because of her illness. I couldn't condone her choices/behavior (even though I loved her and knew it was the illness she let hold her). I don't see MFi's current behavior as being bad. I do see that his behavior in the past (esp. length of his playing) as probably putting him in a position to pay it backward (as opposed to paying it forward).

I guess the difference between teddy and MFi is that we can tell how strong Mfi's thread are. . . . we can get info.. . .we can see how many of his 9 lives (if any) he has used.

Arneeb . . .thank you for your post. . .

I will journal the obervations for three weeks or so and not google/obsess/probably try not come here (I always compare every post to MFi)/ or drive him nuts. I think if I unwind a little bit, we are working on a healthy 2011, it may help the whole situation. Then I will approach it with him. Maybe he will do it for me. I am wound up about this (and maybe not properly processing some of my junk). Maybe he will do it so that I will quit analyzing him--so long as he goes to the doctor and gets the tests. .. he can do it for crazy philosophy.

Love you all! Wishing you the best. Hopefully when I return I will have made some progress.

I can only repeat what I said before:  If he has liver disease, even one beer is too much.  If he doesn't have LD...I still expect it will all catch up with him one day.  The 50s is usually when it starts.

Hugs,

Connie