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Diarrhea after gallbladder removal

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Irritable Bowel Syndrome
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Posted 3/8/2008 1:40 AM (GMT 0)
Sheree,

You can take calcium with synthroid you just need to take it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and wait 1 hour the eat and take the calcium at that time. You are using the wrong calcium if you have CalMag. This has got magnesium in it and it will only add to the diarrhea. You have found that calcium will help you for several hours if you take it with dinner so you need to take it with each meal and you can get some good control over the diarrhea.

Linda
Posted 3/8/2008 3:32 AM (GMT 0)
Hi and thankyou for your quick response. I have a problem with Synthroid giving me D as well. Been fighting that for years. But your suggestion is a good idea and I will try it with some variation. I know Mag can give D however, this has been helping more than anything. I will try the caltrate instead and take it about 2 hours after Synthroid and hope it does not block it..... I know I had nothing but problems with Questran and was taking it as directed, and leaving more and more time inbetween the Synth and Questran. However, no matter if I waited 1, 2 or 3 hours it still blocked the S. But you have given me more hope to increase the calicium and hope it works..... By the way, my Doctor said that if you take calcium you need to drink a lot of water, as it can cause kidney stones. Just want to pass that on. I drink lots of water anyway but thought it would be good to put it on the board..

I went on Drug Interaction last night and typed in all my meds. It says to wait at least 2 to 3 hours after Synthroid or any other med before taking the calcium or you won't abosorb the other meds correctly. So, I have to figure out what is in the middle here as I take the Synthroid about 9 Am and another drug at 2 PM. So somewhere in the middle I will take the calcium.....

Again thanks as you and I seem to be the only ones that are on Synthroid as well????

Sheree nono

Post Edited (Sheree) : 3/7/2008 8:49:50 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/8/2008 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
Sherre,

I too take synthroid and you need to take it on an empty stomach also so the way I do it is as soon as I get up I take mine and then take my bath and get ready for work and eat my breakfast at work. That gives me at least one hour or a bit more before I take my first calcium with breakfast. This seems to work for me.

As far as calcium causing kidney most kidney stones are oxilate stones and it has been proven in the last 15 years this will help to prevent stones because the calcium will get rid of the oxilates also. You might do some research on this and take it to your doctor to see if he agrees with the research. Be aware some doctors do not like you to tell them the latesest but this has been known since the 1990's.

You do have to process the calcium right and not have other things wrong in that area also. Drinking water is also a good idea but not to an extreme.

Linda
Posted 3/8/2008 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
I too take synthroid and you need to take it on an empty stomach also so the way I do it is as soon as I get up I take mine and then take my bath and get ready for work and eat my breakfast at work. That gives me at least one hour or a bit more before I take my first calcium with breakfast. This seems to work for me.

Hi Linda
Yes, I take my Synthroid the same way as you do first thing in the AM. However, I cannot wait an hour to eat as I get D from it if I do that. I had RAI 20 yrs ago for Graves disease, and my bowel has trouble now with Synthroid as well. I have to watch it closley as it doesn't agree with me these days. , I am always having to adjust my dosage as I either get hyper (which is scarey) or hypo. So now in addition, I have no gall bladder and the D is awful. Cannot go out to dinner as I cramp and run to the ladies room within 1 hour. I usually have to go back again, and then all is finished. Also, the reason I take the calcium with some Mag, is that I need it for my heart health. I developed A Fib four years ago from to high a dose of Synthroid for years. It was the Doctors insistance that I take more than I really needed. They kept my TSH to low (for me) and I had a racing heart and all kinds of symptoms for years until I finally took control of my meds. However, it was to late and the cardiologist said I was to hyper thyroid and that got the A Fib started. What I may try is the Calcium Carbonate in the AM within an hour of eating, instead of the immodium and before I have to take my other meds at 2 PM. Hope this makes sense. Also, I wonder if the chewables would be OK???? Although I see they have mag in them as well, but not as much as what I am taking. I cannot swallow these big tabs, I choke on them...any suggestions would be welcome.

Sheree

Post Edited (Sheree) : 3/8/2008 12:34:07 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/8/2008 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
Sherre,

The calcium with the added minerals which comes in the chewable form is what I take but I can deal with the tablet and have never switched. With that one you need to be sure you do not take them too close together because of the added magnesium. If you are really sensative to magnesium even that small amount will bother you.

One thing you may try is to take a full calcium at night with a small snack and this will help in the morning and you would be able to take the synthroid as usual and the night time pill will help in the mornings. Then take the next one around 9 am as you have been and then somewhere between 2 pm and 4 pm. This should space them enough and maybe you can adjust to that.

Linda
Posted 3/8/2008 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
Linda, I just copied and pasted this warning for you to see... are you saying that the calcium has not affected your Synthroid absorpition at all the way you take it???? Also, do you have some thyroid yourself??? This could be the difference. What I am also concerned about are the meds I take all day long. 2 PM< 6PM> 11PM> If I take the calcium at dinner it blocks the absorption of my 6PM medication I must take. Also, I take something for sleep and estrogen as well at night, so I cannot take it before I go to sleep. I have to figure out where to put this in my day so that it will not keep my other meds from working. That would be a disaster for me. I went through that with Questran, what a mess. I became so hypo thyroid that I had to stop...

Your so sweet to try to help me....

MANAGEMENT: Experts recommend separating the times of administration of levothyroxine and calcium-containing preparations by at least 4 hours. Monitoring of serum TSH levels is recommended. Patients with gastrointestinal or malabsorption disorders may be at a greater risk of developing clinical or subclinical hypothyroidism due to this interaction.

I got that off the net....

Sheree
Posted 3/9/2008 12:30 AM (GMT 0)
Sherre,

I have been taking the calcium for about 10 years now for the diarrhea. I have been on synthroid for about 4 years and the last test I had in January I did have to increase from 25 mcg to 50 mcg and I will take that for a while and get tested again. I am hypothyroid. You need to check with your pharmacy or doctor to try to work out if the calicum does affect your other meds.

Linda
Posted 3/9/2008 11:17 PM (GMT 0)

Hi everyone, I'm new here.  I just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions in this thread.

However, I'm also curious as to whether or not any of you had somewhat of a sudden onset of your urgent, chronic diarrhea?

I had my GB out in March 2006.  After the surgery, I really expected to have the D that everyone warned me about.  I was terrified to leave the house for a while, and I was terrified to eat anything but english muffins or oatmeal.  After a few weeks, though, I fell into a pretty good pattern.  I occasionally had a solid bm in the morning, but I don't eat breakfast, so my first and only D would be immediately after lunch (usually a low fat turkey wrap, no mayo).  It was managable.  I also had to go if I had a heavy or greasy dinner, but it wasn't urgent.

A few months ago, I noticed a change in my habits.  I still don't eat breakfast, and I still don't really have much action in the morning.  But after lunch, the D starts.  I go several times now, instead of just once, and sometimes it's the thin, burny yellow kind that others have mentioned.  But other times, it's not.  The consistency varies, and I can't make any rhyme or reason of that.  And the urgency ... my stars, the urgency.  I have to go IMMEDIATELY.  RIGHT NOW.  And it's loud and gassy when I go. 

I'm also waking up at night with D which never happened before.

I've decided to call my doctor tomorrow, because it has gone on for a while and I've read some pretty scary stuff.  But I'm hoping that it's "just" related to my surgery, even though I was OK for a while.  I would really like to try to manage it with the suggestions here, like the Caltrate or the Welchol, rather than find out that it's something more serious. 

Thanks again!

Posted 3/10/2008 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
Treester,

When you first have the GB removed you are usually on pain meds and this will sort of cause constipation. Then with the bile flowing all the time through the system it can take some time to cause the irritation in the intestines to end up causing the diarrhea and nausea. The less you eat it can even be worse because the bile has nothing to work with to digest food and can cause more inflammation. You also have to look at any other meds you take and the side effects and if taking calcium with them is not recommended such as with synthroid. So the best way to deal with this is to try to eat regular even if it is a small amount take the calcium with the food on a regular basis and to start with 1/2 tablet with your meals at least 4 or 5 hours apart. Be sure not to take multivitamins and anything with magnesium in it and lots of antiancids have magnesium.

Let me know if you need help email is fine if you like.

Linda
Posted 3/10/2008 3:55 PM (GMT 0)
 

Thanks for all the info, Linda!

I'm actually not on any other meds - I don't even take antacids.  I do take a multivitamin, it's a prenatal.  I'm not pregnant anymore, but I kept taking it because I thought the extra iron in it might help me. 

I just bought some Caltrate, but I'm not sure I bought the right one.  I bought the pink one, it's caltrate 600+D.  I debated getting the one "plus minerals" but I thought I remembered I was supposed to stay away from magnesium. 

Posted 3/10/2008 4:11 PM (GMT 0)
Treester,

You may find if you stop the vitamin you will improve. Vitamin A,E,C, and magnesium in them will cause you more stomach upset and diarrhea. Taking iron is a no no too unless you are low in iron. You can get too much of that. It will take a week or more to get them out of your system.
Posted 3/11/2008 4:10 AM (GMT 0)
Just a note to all, I took the Caltrade D Plus chewables with the minerals, and have worse D. Took it after lunch and within a hour it started and just had to take a lomotil as I cannont stop the runs. I believe it is the mag, but belive more it is the other ingredients such as mineral oil, and soybean oil. I know that any of my vitamins such as Vit E and A that I took for years I cannot take anymore since GB removal. Goes right through me. Anyway, I thought it would be productive to put this up for anyone else thinking of the chewables. Also, would like to know if anyone else has had this reaction. After taking these at lunch, within a hour things started rumbling and I am still such to the bathroom...

I am now tonight starting just the Caltrate plus D....Pink box....more to follow....
Posted 3/11/2008 12:05 PM (GMT 0)
Sheree - I had my GB removed also, during a colon resection for rectal cancer. Had 90% of the sigmoid removed as well. While I don't experience the yellow bile type D, I have multiple bm's all day long and sometimes all out D. What I find that is the hardest to deal with is the putty stage I get into with stool. It is messy, I need to flush several times after going each time and I need to use a sitz (sp?) bath to feel clean. I also get very sore while I'm in this stage. It's not all out D, but it isn't formed stool either and it just keeps coming. My doctor says it's from not having a sigmoid anymore, the stool has nowhere to go. That said, I did try the Caltrate with D, berry flavored chewables last Spring. They seemed to help at first, but then I almost became impacted. I had trouble going, it was all backed up and I was in terrible pain. My insides had become swollen too and I was a real mess for about 2 days. That's when I pulled back on the Caltrate. Now I hardly ever take it. I would highly recommend you start out in small doses. I didn't do this. I had a full tablet with each meal.

What I have found that seems to help me the most now is to eat very small meals, 3 or 4 times a day. My breakfast consists of half an english muffin and a banana, or yogurt. Lunch is half a turkey sandwich, a few grapes possibly. Dinner is very small portions. I stop eating by 7 pm. If we dine out, I cut my entire dinner in half, with my knife and eat only half of it. The rest goes in a doggie bag to take home. I have jokingly called this new way of eating the "half-way" diet. But it does seem to be working. I am just as satisfied with eating smaller portions, I end up feeling much better! If I snack between meals, it's a handful of pretzels, or yogurt, a banana, 1 small individual size cup of applesauce or the snack that agrees with me the most - original Club crackers with salt. I am never w/o Club Crackers!

I hope you find the relief you are seeking. I remember my colon surgeon saying - your GB is filled with hundreds of gallstones, you're just a GB attack waiting to happen, we'll take that out too during your surgery. At the time I thought, why not! I didn't know the GB was this important!

Mary
Posted 3/11/2008 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
Marsky,

When people start the calcium they should only do 1/2 tablet 3 times a day with food. After 3 day you can make and adjustment. But if you are not going at all then adjust sooner or totally stop taking it and after you go start back with less than you were taking.

You can adjust and make it work even if it only takes 1/2 tablet a day sometimes even this is enough. I found that if I stop in about 12 hours I will get the diarrhea again.

Linda
Posted 3/11/2008 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
Mary and Linda thanks for your input. I took a whole calcium D last night instead of the chewables. I now see that perhaps I am going to fast, as I am full of gas this AM and I feel another bout coming on. I will need to experiment with all of this. Also Mary, they took some of my sigmoid out as well when they operated. So, my bowel is not in tact either which may account for the D. I know that my rapid transit time (as they call it), is so fast, that they always comment on it. I find since my GB that ANYTIME I eat I have to go within one hour, it is like a clock. The only way I have been able to handle a day (no nights yet) is to have my oatmeal in the AM, take an immodium or two at 1 PM. That allows me a window to go out for the rest of the afternoon. I just eat a breadstick or something like that at 3. If I eat 1/2 a sandwich or anything else I have to go within a hour. I also get the cramps a lot. Now, lately I am getting tons of gas and like an explosion when I go. I start out with formed and then I get D. It just is so simple with me, I eat I go period. I don't want to live on lomotil, but this suffering every day and restricted life if awful.
Thanks for all the input and I will try 1/2 a caltrate D pill in the afternoon today. I don't understand why it is not binding me up like everyone else?????? Love this group, everyone is so encouraging and it is good to share our stories so many wonderful suggestions.

PS Linda, I think I might also be hyper thyroid at the moment. That would of course add to the D, however I have never been able to have any normal life since the GB was removed. So sorry I had to do it. It is the surgeons bread and butter, the GBs. I think they remove them all to fast and don't give us a chance to recoop. I never had an actual attack, I had pancreatitis from GB they said. Something about the stone going down the wrong duct and smaking the pancreas. Who knows..... It reminds me of the 70's when every young woman with any female problem got a hysterectomy!!!!! To many needless ones were done. Also, we GBs are in the minority I have read. Only 20% get this syndrome after surgery and some only last a year and they are normal again. I know many people that had their GB out and do not have any problems. I suppose it has to do with your bowel habits before the surgery. I was always normal every day. Most I have spoken to tended towards C before surgery and they are normal now.

Post Edited (Sheree) : 3/11/2008 12:15:21 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/11/2008 10:21 PM (GMT 0)
The surgeons say not too many get the bile salts diarrhea after surgery but it does not really reflect on the surgeon but just the removal of the gall bladder and how it functions.

Do start slower because you will get gas and indigestion if you go too fast with the calcium. And I must take 3 full tablets a day to keep the diarrhea under control for me so I had it pretty bad.

I have heard 30% of people get the diarrhea attacks after the surgery and that is a lot of people suffering from diarrhea not to be important for them to find a solution.

Linda
Posted 3/12/2008 12:49 AM (GMT 0)
Linda - thank you for reminding it is best to go easy on the Calrate. I should have taken 1/2 a tablet with each meal but here I was wanting a fast turn around so I took a whole one each time. Also we had my dear father-in-law's funeral at the time so my emotions were all over the place. I just wanted to be there for my husband and my daughters but my guts had another idea. After it was all over, about 5 to 7 days later, I decided to just continue with my Colace, 50 mg each evening. Of all the things that I have tried - Fiber-con, Metamucil, bran cereal, even a bowel retraining regimen (bowl of bran cereal, Metamucil, 1 pediatric suppository each morning) - simple stool softener such as the Colace, works the best for me. But adding Caltrate D can't hurt. I tend to get heartburn now (lots of belching especially on car trips) and I have found that Gavisgon works best for this problem. So Caltrate with D couldn't be too off the mark, in helping me.

I will tell you this though, one important thing I have learned with all of this, no matter what you do try, go easy on it - from high fiber, to fiber supplements, to stool softeners, to a new diet - just take it slow and in small amounts. To see if your system can handle it.
Posted 3/12/2008 12:58 AM (GMT 0)
Also watch things you take over the counter for anti acid if it has magnesium in it and many do like Maalox and Mylanta. This can give you loose stools or diarrhea.
Posted 3/19/2008 12:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone.  It is so good to know that my body is not just out of whack and crazy.  I had my gallbladder taken out 2 months after having my 2nd child (November 2006).  The diarrhea that I had before the surgery went away and I was fine for a while with an occasional bout here and there.  But in the last 4 or 5 months my diarrhea has gotten really bad.  I am now pregnant with our 3rd child (1 month along) and my diarrhea comes from nowhere. No warning signs, no cramping, nothing!  I am now having uncontrollable diarrhea!  It is extremely distressing, when I am running around in town with just my children, and an incident happens.  Please help!  Any ideas would be great.
Posted 3/20/2008 9:47 PM (GMT 0)
<<I do take a multivitamin, it's a prenatal. I'm not pregnant anymore, but I kept taking it because I thought the extra iron in it might help me. >>

I agree that you should probably quit taking the vitamin. I have found that Vitamin C gives me D. I cannot have any of those Airborne-type products because they have too much C. I am okay, however, taking a Centrum vitamin because they don't contain more than 100% of my daily vitamin C requirement. That's my absolute limit with vitamin C.

Also mentioned was magensium; that's a known laxative. You have to have it and, in the case of calcium supplements, you have to have it to absorb the calcium, but you have to keep an eye out on how much you take; the less the better if you have D.

And, finally, with chewable medicine of any kind, you have to keep an eye out for sugar alcohols, like sorbitol, mannitol and xylitol. People with bowel problems should never consume sugar alcohols because they are a known laxative and intestinal irritant.
Posted 3/21/2008 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hi.

I had my gall bladder removed in Sept of 2006. I take the "Cholestyramine" powder which I believe is a generic for Questran. I actually don't eat throughout the day to try and avoid being sick and dealing with that at work... I usually just eat once a day in the evenings. (I know this isn't good for me, and I don't reccomend others to do this) I actually think that not eating makes me sicker....rather than if I ate more frequently throughout the day. But what I do with the Cholestyramine powder is that I usually take some mixed in with Gatorade of a morning and drink it even though I don't eat, and then I take another scoop in Gatorade when I eat my dinner. I have experience the occasional constipation but its not very often and usually that occurs for me when I take other stomach meds along with the Chole medicine...

Just thought I'd share what "dosing" that works for me.
Posted 3/21/2008 2:41 AM (GMT 0)
Jane - just out of curiosity do you abstain from food during the day because you are at work? I work part time, mid-day hours so I can eat a light breakfast but cannot resume eating until I'm home from work, by 2 p.m. If I had to work 8 hours a day, I know I'd have to give up food. I sometimes joke I'd feel better if I could just give up food. I had my GB out too but also my sigmoid removed and 15 inches of my colon, for rectal cancer in 1999. Now I suffer from multiple bm's, every single day. If I eat very lightly, I do much better. Another thing I joke about - no input, no output is another thing I like to say. Because if I don't joke about how my life revolves around a bathroom, I'd go crazy! I do have good days but when I get stuck in a messy bm stage (where I'm at right now), it goes on for days and days and I can't seem to turn it around (to simple bm consistency). My doctor keeps saying this is all because I don't have a sigmoid and has recommended a perm. colostomy, which would be inverted. She claims - and this is where I just am so skeptical - I would irrigate it, once a day and then that would it. I'd cover the opening with a bandaid the rest of the day.

At this point she knows she's lost me. I keep saying I am not there yet.

And besides, we have lousy med insurance now. I shudder to think what they'd pay for a major operation and then a lengthy hospital stay. All I had to pay was $800 for my first surgery and stay (7 days), that bill was over $20,000 and the second surgery (temp colostomy takedown), $600 for roughly $15,000-16,000 (forget the exact amount). I think those figures could be the other way around - now. Sigh.....

So someday I might want to re-route the way my body eliminates stool but not yet. Oh, no, not yet!

A band-aid.......I almost laughed when she said that bit.....I would have to talk to a living, breathing patient with an inverted colostomy and then ask to see this band-aid to believe it!


Mary/marsky
Posted 3/21/2008 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Marsky,

To answer your question, yes, I don't eat because of work. It doesn't bother me too much because I'm sort of used to not eating at work long before I had my gall bladder removed. I'm just paranoid. I actually think that I tend to be sicker when I don't eat. I'm no doctor but I feel like when you don't eat for long periods of times that you have excess bile thats not absorbed with food and I think that is actually what makes me sicker. Because when I did seem to eat on the weekends I'd be very normal. Now that I've taken the Cholestyramine powder I s till don't eat during the day, just me being paranoid I guess but I dont usually get sick in the evenings when I do eat, where before I did daily. As far as work we work some crazy hours sometimes 12 hour days and thats another reason I don't eat at work is because I don't want to be stuck at work that long feeling bad.... I've just developed alot of anxieties about this stuff. But the Medicine helps greatly, there are just a few other issues though...

It is safe to say I think that Digestively I just don't feel the same. There are times I can eat things that bothers me, sometimes they don't. Even though I try to stick with "safe"foods sometimes its hard to know what "safe" is. Like two weeks ago, on a weekend I took a craving for salad which is one thing I tend to stay away from because it can be hard on your system. I ate a ton of salad. Like 3/4's of the store bought salad bags... and I never got one bit sick in the slightest... lettuce is hard on you and It didn't phaze me one bit but then there are times I think I'm fine eating certain things and I'm sick. It's weird......
Posted 3/21/2008 9:14 PM (GMT 0)

Iceberg lettuce from a head doesn't bother me at all, but bagged and salad bar salad is a no-no.  I found out in college, from my mother, that pre-cut salad has chemicals put on it that give a lot of people problems with diarrhea.  It was giving me D before the GB went bad.  It also gives my husband D if he eats too much, so both of us only use a head of lettuce. 

And yes, eating smaller, regular meals is better for you than fasting all day.  Now, granted, I don't usually eat breakfast until around 10am because I've never been very hungry first thing and because it gives my Welchol time to kick in--I'm worse in the mornings--but still, I can get sick to my stomach if I go too long without eat, and for the very reason that you name: nothing in the guts to absorb the bile.  You'd probably be best off eating grains and granolas; that doesn't bother anybody with GB problems that I know and they help sop up fluids in the intestinal tract.  Granola bas, oatmeal, lentils, sandwiches with a big bun of bread (and small amount of meat), bread with a bit of butter or jelly or cheese on it (if you're not lactose intolerant). 

Personally, by the time lunch rolls around, I'm good to eat 99.9% of the time.  I tend to have soups, although I also have sanwiches or hotdogs sometimes.  Occasionally supper leftovers. 

 

Posted 3/23/2008 2:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Jane - thanks for getting back to me. I currently work part-time, midday hours (middle school cafeteria). The hours are perfect since I stop eating by 7 a.m., and by the time I start work, 9:30, I'm done in the bathroom until I eat again. And since we are so incredibly busy, there's no time to eat if I wanted to! But I do worry, it would be great if I could work 6 hours or more a day. If full time, then I'd be faced with that explanation, why I don't eat. We've socialized before musical concerts with couples and they almost always want to eat out. Having a few drinks, not a problem. But food? I just abstain. When the waitress stands by my chair, I just say no thank you. I tell a few of the wives early on, I can't eat solids, I ate earlier (which is true, I eat a yogurt cup by 2 or 3 p.m.). Who wants to hole up in a nightclub's bathroom after eating a big meal, out of peer pressure? LOL So I have that bit down pat but on a daily basis at work, it would be hard. I guess I would just say - I can't eat during the work day. And then walk away. How do you handle people's questions? People with normal guts just do not get it!

For the past 6 months or so, I've intentionally eaten half my meals. That seems to be working the best for me right now, along with my usual pediatric dose of Colace, 2 yogurt cups a day, a banana or two, a few applesauce cups and other foods that agree with me.

I just did an enema yesterday though. I've been stuck in the putty stage, for days and I knew with today being Easter (eating out with family) I needed to be cleaned out. I just make sure eat well the day of an enema and during the time it's working - I take salty snacks into the bathroom with me, lots of reading material and a tall glass of iced water. I keep eating and drinking afterwards (unlike you do for procedures). When I do enemas this way, lots of fluids, salty foods and keep my solid intake up, they seem to give me a few normal days afterwards. My doc gave me the go ahead to do them each week if I want to. I just usually save them for holidays or vacations though. 3 or 4 a year. Certainly not weekly. I do feel better today.

Wishing everyone with guts like ours a nice Easter and calm days ahead. Don't you just wish there was a magic wand for ALL of us? Sigh....

marsky/Mary
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