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The Definitive Guide to Gall Bladder Disease

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Posted 5/15/2008 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, Exactly,  that was my assumption before reading up on the issue as well.  After reading some more (search links in previous post), a nonvisualization is highly indicative of a blockage or malfunctioning gallbladder = Chronic Cholecystitis.  I read a few cases where it can not show up and something else is the cause but I have other symptoms that match up so put everything together and sounds pretty conclusive to me. 

[Update 05/30/08] I was at my Doc's yesterday to review the HIDA results.  He's 80% confident that it's the gallbladder and that I should speak to a surgeon but he's more comfortable if we do a Gastric Emptying study to make sure it's not GastroParesis first.  Since my symptoms aren't too bad and I can wait a bit longer I think that's a good idea, as I agree with him, wouldn't want to go get it taken out and find out I have a different issue (or two issues).  So, I'm going to be scheduling that in the next working day or so and wait a bit longer on next steps. 

[Update 07/08/08] I got my gastric emptying results back and my stomach appears to have a delay emptying solid foods.   I didn't write down all the numbers but the egg sandwhich was 49% empty at 90minutes which isn't far from average.  When I see my doctor again Iin august I'll get the other numbers so I can understand the timeline trend, but, I'm pretty sure the issue isn't bad right now just not 'normal'.  On the plus side I'm feeling OK lately.  I'm going to have to play it out a bit and see if anything gets worse and go from there.  So far just eating healthy, smaller portions, and more frequently has been working. 

A few doctors have said that in some cases of Gastroparesis they get better over time (viral, etc) and it's difficult to determine the cause anyway.  At this point, since I'm not feeling bad, there's not a lot to do.  He was willing to run some other tests if desired or prescribe Reglan, etc.  The Doc said that since the stomach is emtpying slow it could be an issue that affects all my 'smooth muscles' which includes the gallbladder so the symptoms can coincide.  He isn't recommending we do anything about the GB now but we'll need to keep an eye on it anyway since I did have Polyps discovered on the ultrasound.

Post Edited (eihcet) : 7/8/2008 2:30:59 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/15/2008 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
Hi, I'm new here, but have been reading for a while. I'm 62, otherwise in excellent health, but for the past year have been having these sypmtoms:

Terrible, rumbling lower intestine gas, followed by jet-propelled D (sometimes just softish D) (sorry for the graphics), reflux.  One episode of vomiting, vague stomach discomfort, but the gassy D has been consistant.  In the last few months the addition of chest pain that radiates to scapula...right-center of chest.  Mild, goes away in an hour.

Changing diet doesn't help much, though I'm beginning to see I'm better without the diet coke (drat).  Eggs gave me the worst attack yet, and real mayo on a sandwich, the same thing.  Those attacks of gas and D last about 3 days.  Terrible.

Dr. put me on Previcid last year...helps the reflux, not the lower GI symptoms.  Had endoscopy and colonoscopy 2 weeks ago.  Results: hiatal hernia, divertiulosis in duodenum, esphoigitis, mild gastritis. Dr. said it's possible the pockets in duodenum could be digesting trapped food there, instead of where it should be, thus turning toxic, and causing D further down the line.  But when I mentioned the chest pain, he scheduled me for ultrasound and HIDA scan, which I'll have probably in 2 weeks.

Questions:  Is gassy D, several times a day...like 4 times a symptom of gall bladder...I have the pain but it's mild.  Mostly lower GI symptoms, and believe me it is hell...embarassing, noisy, awfully urgent.  I want to hide at home all day.  I don't see this listed as a primary gallbladder symptom.

Other annoying thing is that altho I hardly eat ANY fat and havent for years trying to control weight, my weight is up 15 pounds in the last year, tho my diet has not changed to any great degree. I feel so bloated every time I eat it's ridiculous.  Educate me please!

I have a good PPO insurance...will there be automatic resistance to removing a GB if there's not acute pain?  I don't get that!  Diet control is very ineffective.  Of course, now I'm reading that if I have it out, my symptoms will never be better????  How demoralizing!

Eihcet, thanks for the heads up on the HIDA!

twodogs.

Posted 5/15/2008 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, a malfunctioning gall bladder can cause all sorts of gas problems. When I still had mine, I couldn't pass gas hardly at all. While not farting all day sounds great to someone who is embarrassed by that sort of thing, let me tell you, it's painful as all heck because if it doesn't come out, it stays in and hurts!

And diarrhea is VERY common with gall bladder problems.

Just because you don't hurt much (or at all) on your right side doesn't mean that the chest pains and other pains would not go away when you got your gall bladder removed (if that's the source of the problem). I used to often hurt up into my right shoulder when my GB was acting up. I didn't hurt under my right rib cage until a few weeks before I got my GB out. I hurt in the general upper abdomen area. When the GB came out, the pain went away. Only the diarrhea remained (and there's medicine for that problem now).

Your insurance will not base paying for your surger on your symptoms; they will base it off the radiologist's opinion on your HIDA scan. If he says it's bad, then it's bad and you can have it out. Some people never know they have a problem until something causes someone to look up there--like an ultrasound--and, holy cow!, their GB is full of stones! Those have to come out, even if they've never hurt once.

Fat was never my bane. I can still eat ice cream and sour cream and whole-milk yogurt (although milk is a bit touchy by itself). Caffeine is what gets me. And I can't do deep-fried food. So I can eat half a container of ice cream with impunity but have to say no to chicken McNuggets. Good fat versus bad fat seems to be the rule. If you're American, dairy fats (saturdated fats) are bad, but the French say they're very good. I'm going to say they're good because I can handle them (good for me, in other words). On the other hand, things like trans fats are always bad. The stuff that most people fry meats in is a bad fat. However, Chick-Fil-A deep-fries in peanut oil, which is a good fat--and their food has never bothered me once.

I used to be able to tolerate fruit juices, but over the last 5 years of not having a GB, I've gotten to where they all give me gas cramps, gas and softer stools. So I avoid them. I think I'm still okay to eat cooked fruit, though. Most people with any type of IBS are. Cooking gets the gas out, helps break down the fiber. Also neutralizes some of the acid, which is what I think gets me.
Posted 5/16/2008 2:54 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the quick response...what a yukky subject this is!  I feel now as if I have had 2 things going on at once....the reflux with the hernia and the diverticulosis and the esphagitis have been playing havoc with my stomach...gnawing, churning, burning, while the GB has been throwing a monkey wrench in in the background.

Can't decide if I'm getting not enough bile or too much!  I feel as if there is something TOXIC going through my system, that causes the urgency and gassiness.

I'm taking Previcid again to help the reflux, and had a blood test to further determine if the diverticulus pockets are throwing out infected stuff that would indicate antibiotics (they test for B12 and Folate levels...if the B12 is high and the folate low, it means infection).

If bile digests fat, is the reason for the D that the fats in our system just pass through undigested?  I would think one would lose weight as a symptom...I'm actually gaining. Very odd. My "transit time" is very fast.  They want me to eat more fiber for the upper GI problems, but if I add any more fiber, the D will just get worse, yes?

I'm furious with my body right now!

Thanks again!

 

Posted 5/16/2008 4:03 PM (GMT 0)
I meant to warn you stay away from things like seeds. That's what they told my stepfather who has diverticulitis. The seeds get stuck in the pockets and cause an infection. He has to be careful with small seeds that don't get chewed up, like the ones on strawberries and especially poppy seed buns. Those are a real no-no for him. Seeds you chew up, like sunflower seeds, should be okay, but make sure you chew really well.

If you have D (when you don't have a functioning gall bladder), you have too much bile (or, in some cases, you have the right amount, but is very badly timed). Your acid reflux may also be related to too much bile (going up instead of down). Constipation is linked to too little bile.

A fast transit time will also give you D because your stools don't have time to form. Fiber may help that (although I've never found it to be helpful with the bile problem). Insoluable fiber is fiber that doesn't dissolve. That's the sort of thing you get from apple peels and the tough, stringy bits in celery and the like. It passes through your digestive system without doing anything--except adding bulk to your stools. That's what you need; more bulk. Soluable fiber is fiber that dissolves in water--like the heart of an apple--and that helps add moisture to the digestive tract--something that constipated people need. So fiber works both ways. All fiberous fruits and vegetables, and all fiber supplements have a mixture of both soluable and insoluable fiber. There's no getting around that. But in the case of fiber supplements, you can find those that contain more of one type. For you, you need to find a supplement that has more insoluable fiber than soluable.
Posted 5/16/2008 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
Who knew! Thanks a lot...off I go to get apples and celery.
Posted 5/16/2008 9:11 PM (GMT 0)

Not apples!  The juice from them is actually a natural laxative!  Better to get your fiber from some other fruit or vegetable, lol. 

Actually, if you like bananas, they seem safest on the old gut--the least acidic fruit I can think of.  Also, they are naturally constipating! 

Posted 8/13/2008 9:04 PM (GMT 0)

I am 43 years old female. I had my gall bladder taken out by emergency surgery on 12/11/2007. I was admitted to the hospital through the ER. The triage male nurse put I had a belly ache. After 6 hours of waiting in the ER, I passed out. The surgeon said it had gone septic. Because of the extensive infection the healing was slow. I then got pneumonia 3 weeks afterward. I stayed sick with something or another through February. about the beginning of March I was doing fine and hadn't had any problems until now. I get very nauseated and have headaches in the afternoon - that last all night. And, where my gall bladder was hurts - sometimes sharp pain - sometimes just uncomfortable. The surgeon who did my surgery moved out of state. My family doctor said that sometimes happens and it will get better in time. That doesn't make cense to me, because it was better. Does anyone know what would cause this and will it get better over time. I am tired of being sick all the time.

Thanks

Posted 8/13/2008 10:38 PM (GMT 0)
I haven't heard of headache pains associated with a phantom gall bladder before. Are you dehydrated? If I don't get enough liquids, I get dehydration headaches. That's especially likely to happen if you get diarrhea. If you are used to caffeine, you can get withdrawal headaches until you either get some caffiene or get broken of it.

You may be having some acid reflux, and that's causing the nausea. Sometimes the bile that should be in the gall bladder goes back up into the stomach and causes too much acid in your stomach and gives you problems pretty much exactly like someone who produces too much stomach acid. Antacids may help reduce your stomach acid enough to compensate for the extra bile. In other people--like me--that misplaced bile goes down the tubes and I get D from it.

The best thing you can try doing is eating in the afternoon about when the nausea hits. The longer you go without eating, the more raw acid is sitting in your stomach, bile or no bile. If you eat, you give the acid something to do besides eat up the lining of your stomach or esophagus. So contrary as it sounds, eating while nauseated is sometimes quite helpful. I sometimes get nauseated and I know the feeling well enough to know it's time to eat, not time to refrain from eating. I got nauseated more often after I first had my GB out. I think it lessened after a year until it's fairly rare now.

A lady I worked with would have phantom GB attacks about once a year that lasted for a few days. Said it was just like having a real GB attack. But she never had any D or acid reflux the whole rest of the year and didn't have any foods she couldn't eat, so I figure that's a small price to pay!

If the pain continues for several months, talk to your doctor about the possibility that you may have scar tissue building up and causing the pain. While scar tissue is usually not a problem for laproscopic surgeries, there is an increased risk if your GB was infected before it was removed.

My mother also had a very infected GB and spent a week in the hospital on IV antibiotics before they could remove it, and even then she wasn't really over the infection, and it spread and her incision got infected and she spent more time in the hospital. I think she said it took 3 or 4 months until she was well and truly over the surgery.

Oh, and as you were probably on a lot of antibiotics thanks to all your infections and illness, you should probably consider a regimen of yogurt or probiotic pills daily. They restore the good bacteria in your guts. They certainly never hurt and there is the possibility that your problems are related to a lack of good bacteria and/or bad bacteria overgrowth.
Posted 8/15/2008 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Hello. What a great forum! Thanks to all for sharing. I'm scheduled for GB removal surgery next Thursday.

The back-story: My first indication something was wrong was in late 2005. I had a really bad, sudden, searing pain under my right breast that went through to my back and pulsated up into my neck and under my jaw. I thought "heart attack!" and went to the ER. EKG showed no heart attack. No one knew what it was. I had the same pain on and off after that, but never again felt that pain shooting up into my neck and jaw like that. That pain died down and seemed almost to go away after a while.

Enter the next round of symptoms.

about a year ago, I suddenly started feeling very "bloated" -- in a very painful way. It would last maybe 20 minutes to 30 minutes...I'd literally have to just lay down and wait until it passed. The bloating sensation filled my entire abdomen and made it very painful to breath. At the time I thought it was my newly found soy chips ... I'm also a diabetic and was so happy to have found salty-crunchy-chips I could eat without all the carbs! So I gave up my chips. But the "events" continued to happen in waves ... I'd have a few incidents, then nothing for a few weeks. But when they happened, they started lasting for longer and longer periods of time. I think by February of this year they were lasting about an hour each time. I'd take tums, gas-ex, mylanta ... wasn't ever quite sure if any of it worked but I felt I had to do something! It would eventually just go away.

These bouts sent me to my doctor, who told me it was gas because I was eating healthy stuff following my diabetes diagnosis. She said she'd rather have me eating well and being gassy! So I just figured it was gas .... something I'd have to live with.

But the pain continued on and off until this past July, when it took another turn for the worse. This time, the pain--in the very center of my abdomen and shooting down both sides of my back, like squeezing, never-ending contractions--was lasting for up to 3-4 hours at a time and I also started getting nausea and vomiting with it. I wouldn't vomit every time, but I always felt sick to my stomach. I could not lie down during this pain ... the only thing I found to help in the least was to sit in my recliner with a heating pad on my back to at least help with the back portion of it. So I'd just sit there for an hour or more ... get up and pace around ... try to lie down ... then back in the chair again. By this time, I was eating very bland food in an effort not to have this happen anymore. It stopped for two weeks and then again--BAM! It returned, fiercer and lasting longer than ever!

about a month ago, I had an attack on a Friday evening. Then three on a Saturday. Then Sunday morning, one started during breakfast--around 8:30 am. By 2 pm, I went to the ER. It was unrelenting. By 4 pm, I was vomiting. By 5 pm, they were giving me IV pain medication. So I was in constant pain from 8:30 am to 5:30 pm! The ER doc suspected gallbladder problems. They did an x-ray, which showed nothing. So he asked me to come back Monday morning for an ultrasound. They sent me home with hydrocodone and some really expensive stuff for the nausea.

The ultrasound showed "several mobile gallstones." I got a referral to a surgeon, who will soon be taking it out.

Since then, I've had several other attacks--one of them lasted from 9 pm until 6 am! I was up all night :( My husband was out of town and I was home with the two kids, so I couldn't go anywhere. The next day, the kids woke me when they were hungry for breakfast, then again when they were hungry for lunch, then again when they were hungry for snack. I slept all day. And after these attacks, it's like I can "feel" my gallbladder inside me, like a lump -- not a lump I can feel with my hands, but something I just sense inside me. It hurts, too :( And I'll also have what I call "aftershocks" -- it's like I still get the contractions in my back, but I don't feel the squeezing pain in the front, center of my abdomen, right under the breasts.

Last night, all evening long I felt like I was on the verge of another attack. And one did wake me up eventually. And this was after eating something that has never before given me trouble--air popped popcorn with no-fat buttery spray and an apple. It woke me up at 1 am ... I immediately took a hydrocodone pill ... and was back to bed by 3:30 am. During this attack, I felt like I felt a stone moving! I had this painful sensation on the right side of my abdomen, like something was pulsing and moving! But it was lower, like on my side, not under my breast.

This morning, I ate oatmeal. And I feel on the "verge" of an attack again. It's like I "feel" something there right in the middle of my upper abdomen, and it sort of feels like it does flips or something. But it's not that painful contraction-like pain.

Now my biggest concern is and has been whether this is really my gallbladder since the pain is not typical. I don't really have that upper right quadrant pain that radiates into my right arm and shoulder. My arm and shoulder have never hurt. I don't have yellow "runs," nor any discoloration of the BMs. In fact, my BMs tend more to dark than light during these times, and I also get either "sludge" like BMs or I'm pretty constipated--I thought it was from the pain pills. The pain I have seems more reflective of pancreaitis (spelling?)--epigastric, contraction-like pain that spreads down both sides of the back. My in the ER, my pancreatic levels or whatever were fine. My liver enzymes were elevated though -- I forget what letter went with what but one was in the 800s, another was in the 500s. And the bilirubin was 2.2. I was a little disconcerted by the surgeon, who never even LOOKED at my enzymes or even at the ultrasound. He listened to my symptoms, saw that the US report said "gallstones" and then gave me a spiel about the operation, which I already knew all about. So now I'm scheduled to have it out ... and I'm hoping against hope that it is a gallstone problem.

From what I read here, I think it probably is because I realize that not everyone has the right-side, shoulder symptoms. I'm nervous about the surgery as I hate pain :( But I suppose it's got to be done! I will update this later, after my surgery. Hopefully this tale will help someone else feel like they're not alone!

If you read this far, you're a trooper! Thanks for listening :)

~~CarolinaRen
Posted 8/15/2008 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
<<I think it probably is because I realize that not everyone has the right-side, shoulder symptoms.>>

Also, not everyone has the same problem with their gall bladder.  Mine was chronically inflamed, so of course that can produce a different list of symptoms than someone with stones or sludge.  And besides those three things, you can have one that's infected, which can cause some different symptoms.  When you list them all out, for every possible scenario, there's a bunch!

And constipation is seen occasionally in people with a bad GB.  I reckon about 1 in 10 people with a bad or missing GB wind up with constipation.  That's caused from too little bile, same as too much can give you D.  As you have stones, that's your bile solidifying, so I can see how you might not have enough bile.  After it's removed, you may go to having D.  Or you may be normal or you may remain constipated.  But don't be surprised if your poops do a 180 on you and you go from C to D when it comes out. 

 

Posted 8/21/2008 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
Keriamon,
Did your symtoms come vary over time. Ive had a problem which i believe is gall bladder for about 4 years. I do not have pain really but rather a sick feeling in the urq. at times my problem is mild and i can eat fairly normally if i watch what i eat. Then other times like about 6 weeks ago it can hit me like a ton of bricks and I can be extremely sick for a month where i could barely eat and everytime i did i would be in an intense distended attack of sorts. Now im back to being semi ok again. Ive had 2 hida scans the first of which was 14%. The second of which which was about 3 weeks ago just at the tail end of this episode was 79% but it was with ensure instead of cck. Ive had an endoscope.2 upper Gi series, colonoscopy on this past tuesday, 2 ultra sounds all of which except the first hida were normal. During this last hida i was nauseas as usualy I smelled a bad smell which hits me right in the area where i feel sick and i looked up and my gall bladder contracted right as i had this nauseous shootingto my urq. Seems fairly difinitive but at the same time could mean just that my gall bladder resonds to this nauseous attack? what do you think. It also seems that later at night i am better than in the morning. Again i have nothing that i would call pain. somtimes i have burning sensations and what feels like pressure in my urq and even liver. Any thoughts would be great.
Posted 8/21/2008 4:38 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, my symptoms varied. I could go months without an attack--eat anything I wanted--then boom, two months of frequent attacks and even more frequent bouts of nausea that left me living on low fat hot dogs and cereal. Then, at some point, it would go away again. This is not at all uncommon. In my case, my GB would become inflamed (don't know why) and while it was inflamed, I had problems. Then it would settle down and I'd be okay for a while. People with stones or sludge have similar episodes when they're trying to pass that stuff.

In my case (and my mother's; she also had a chronically inflamed GB), the good times between the bad times gradually became shorter and shorter until I was living with a feeling of a golf ball under my right ribs.

Speaking of which, some of my symptoms did change over time, with the lump-feeling under the ribs being the last symptom to manifest.

I have always felt better about eating in the evenings than in the mornings (while it was still in and now that it's out). However, I would sometimes get exceedingly painful attacks around 1-4am. Invariably I would have D through lunchtime or even up until supper the next day.
Posted 8/21/2008 6:30 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks alot for the reply. I am really going to try to get this thing removed its just I live in canada and since it universal health care they wont do somthing unless they really beleive it to be true. I see the doc early september ill let you know what happens there.
Posted 8/22/2008 1:20 AM (GMT 0)
Oh I have one last question that i have been meaning to ask you. Did you have any control over your symptoms. For example when my symptoms are happening if someone around me talks about somthing gross I can a sick contraction feeling. If I try hard i can ignore it and make it not happen at times. Also bad smells will somtimes do this. During my hida scan while i was lying there waiting for the stuff to fully enter my gall bladder. I was feeling pretty sick. I hadnt had any water or anything to eat since the night before so my mouth wasnt the freshest. I licked my teeth and i had that sick spasm feeling when i looked up my gall bladder had ejected some bile into my intestines at that very moment. I am just curious to know if this happwned to you. I know for a fact that you have some mental control over your intestines such as how your stomach can be in knots if your nervious. I didnt think that you gall bladder would have this capability. I am just worried that its my intestines somewhere and my gall bladder is responding to them responding to me. Any insight?
Posted 1/1/2009 12:31 AM (GMT 0)
BUMP
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