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Can massage make symptoms worse ???

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Posted 1/25/2011 1:16 PM (GMT 0)
In my own battle with this disease, I have recently made a possible connection as to what MIGHT be causing one of my symptoms to flare.

The symptom is: Buzzing, floating head feeling along with ear ringing. Basically a hangover type feeling all in my head which causes a sensation of imbalance.  Lyme vertigo.

What I have noticed is that this dopey head comes on quite strong a few hours (or the next morning) after any kind of trigger point release work I do on my back/shoulders/neck....or after I get an upper body massage from my massage therapist.

Has anyone experinced this?  Can trigger point work/massage cause Lyme toxins to be released enmasse into the body? which in my case goes straight to my head, thus causing the Lyme vertigo to rear its ugly head?

This has happened several times to me....and I'm beginning to think it isn't just a coincidence. 

Unfortunately, it can take a few days for this head thing to clear....or at least an entire day.  This is driving me nuts because I am almost pain free in my joints and everywhere else and feel GOOD....

.....and yet I have to walk around like I'm 100 years old--- steadying myself-- because of my dopey head!   

 

Posted 1/25/2011 8:06 PM (GMT 0)
Cat if this is deep tissue work I always get plastered sick for a week after.

Does your massage therapist know that fibro people can't handle deep work.
maybe she is setting something off.

A massage therapist friend was showing me some new move along my neck and shoulders and I ended up with a migrane so be careful.

We are supposed to be getting light lymph massage work. I had one and thought to myself . wow what a waste fotime . this is like too whspy but I felt great after it and not like a train wrreck that I get from heavy work.
Posted 1/26/2011 12:01 AM (GMT 0)
Hi I havent had a massage since I had lyme but I have a GC to a massage therapist ...

bucci I know I cant have deep tissue cause it makes me worse after wards, I expirence this years b4 I had lyme. also who ever gives me a massage cant touch my tail bone or the bone pump below your kneck and I have to tell her this. I feel dumn telling her but it will be painful just to have it touched. But she offers the rock heat treatment and I mite try that instead.

Jennie

Posted 1/26/2011 12:02 AM (GMT 0)
bucci also you mentioned light lymph massage work.... is that what its called. can i just go in there and ask her this and hoping she will know what i mean?
Posted 1/26/2011 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
Massage will absolutely make you worse. I am a massage therapist and massage stimulates the circulatory, lymph and immune system and encourages detox. If you already have a critical amount of toxins, massage will detox you too fast. A more gentle massage like Swedish won't be as bad as deep tissue, and lymphatic drainage massage won't be as bad as Swedish, but all of them will cause a strong detox reaction!

Any good massage therapist knows that infection, especially systemic infection is a contraindication for massage unless you have a doctor's permission. If you want to know more about different massage types that might be helpful for you that wont cause massive herx reactions, feel free to get in touch with me.

Does your therapist know you have Lyme?

Post Edited (MoralAnimal) : 1/25/2011 5:20:18 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/26/2011 6:21 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Jen, the lite lymph massage is done with a special type of coconut oil and other essential oils mixed in. I'm gonna ask my friend for the recipe and some insturction on how to describe it but from what I remember it was just lite strokes and in specific directions. I'll get back to youz tomorrow. maybe Moral Animal knows what Im talkin about.

One thing that for me is the most powerful massage is Cranial Sacral. If you read up on it you will see why but you have to go to someone who really specializes in it and not a massage therapist that kind of throws it in at the end of every massage. You want advanced therapists. If you go to the Uppledger website they have listings of all therapists and their study. It will show who has been doing it for long time and how many advanced classes they have taken or are even instructors for uppledger. Also with that there should be the John Barral technique which is called Vicseral Manipulation which saved me from all my gallblader and pancreas attacks last year.

google Uppledger Institute. Cranial is the best for lyme and fibro people and if you can keep up the treatments you will see your whole mood will change and feel lighter. It is weard because you feel like this isn't even massage? how is this working? but it helps move the senovial fluid and removes the obstructions.

They did a series on Vietnam veterans for trauma and made a video and they had 4 therapists at a time working on these guys and healed their post traumatic stress.
I has a cranial sacral guy who was a physical therapist and all he does is Cranial work. I thought he was a shamman because he was able to like see through me and exactly where all the pain was.

They can go in and see where you fell off your bike when you were a kid and stuff like that. If you find a cranial sacral master and can get there once a week your whole life will change. I wish there was one where I live.
Posted 1/26/2011 6:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hey and also the hot rocks wil put you in a tail spin. They are supposed to do it with hot and cold stones too but it knocked me on my but for a week last time my friend tried it.

Best thing now that I read your other post about the occipitol bones in back of your head. That is where they work to get you straightened out. Definitely find a cranial. I'm gonna look on the website. If you can get up to Ithaca there is a great one there but I think that is way too far for you.
Posted 1/26/2011 6:35 AM (GMT 0)
go to iahp.com

that is international association of health practiconeers and it tell you all the qualifications of the therapists in all different modalities.

Jen, I saw a couple where you live that are trained in visceral and cranial and some thing called brain therapy and lymph drainage.

This is a great reference tool for everyone to use for all kinds of therapists.

If you look at all the certifications they have it makes it easier to see who the better therapists are.
Posted 1/26/2011 6:49 AM (GMT 0)
yes, lymph massage is very light. It is not always done with oil. It is designed to stimulate the immune system and lymph system. But if you have an infection (ie: lyme), it will help spread the infection throughout the body. It also specifically targets the detox process by pulling out toxins in the body and putting them in the blood and lymph. If you are relatively stable and don't have a lot of herx problems, lymph would be ok.

Any energy work modality would be excellent for lyme disease. Cranial Sacral is one of many. It is a very effective and powerful modality. There are a few different types of cranial sacral too. Reiki or Acupressure would also be excellent. Thai massage would be an ideal low impact massage.

If you are ok with needles, I would highly recommend acupuncture instead of massage, however. Acupuncturists have more medical training and it is less likely to cause a herx. I think Traveler actually sees an acupuncturist to treat lyme!
Posted 1/26/2011 7:01 AM (GMT 0)
I think Moral is right on about the lymph. especially if they use too much oil. I had it once and it was nice. the next time the girl overdosed me with pepermint oil.
Posted 1/26/2011 9:10 AM (GMT 0)
Moral,

I'm glad you explained the different types of massages because I am thinking about getting one soon. My hubby's birthday is in February and I was thinking about getting us both one. I know a girl that has a mobile message company and she comes to your house, which is awesome because sometimes I can barely move. I wanted some of these kinks massaged out by my neck and shoulder area.
Posted 1/26/2011 9:36 AM (GMT 0)
feel free to ask questions. I'm open. :-) There are a LOT of different massage and energy work modalities.
Posted 1/26/2011 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
Moral,

Was thinking about massage. Sounds so good thinking about it. But it could spread Lyme, you think???????

I'm new to this site. Getting a lot of information, learning a lot.

Diagonosed: Bipolar, PTSD, Hypothyd, Depression, Osteomalcia, IBS, TMJ, anxiety, Lyme-recently (don't know the exact detailed lab results- tomorrow I will., Neuropathy, L4-L5 tear.

The neat thing; I've been feeling well mentally. I attend, faithfully, NAMI support group and love it. I also speak about my story when we visit the Psyc.Unit at the Hospital once monthly.

Blessings
Posted 1/27/2011 1:10 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, massage can help spread any infection that can get into the blood or lymph, such as lyme.

So.... if you are coming down with a cold. Don't get a massage. It will bring it on faster and much harder. Though, you will usually recover from it faster too, if your body doesn't get overwhelmed. Something like lyme disease would overwhelm the system. That is why it is a chronic infection, cuz the body never can get a handle on it and expel it.
Posted 1/27/2011 2:15 AM (GMT 0)
Thx. MoralAnimal!

Hubby thought it would be a nice gift to me. Maybe not now!
Posted 1/27/2011 12:38 PM (GMT 0)
try acupuncture. I highly recommend it!
Posted 1/27/2011 8:09 PM (GMT 0)

hi every body. i am massage therapist too.

moral animal is right.

what comes to my mind is flushing out the toxins and supporting lymphatic system. i use the herb CLEAVERS.  and lots of H20.

i think nothing is wrong with trigger point to release those chronic sore points that drive you crazy or some deep tissue.

just realize that there is most certainly a release of toxins into the blood stream to deal with.

as for the dopey head, (i get that so bad!) my chiro does a chakra balanc ing with chimes. it is amazing!

when i can't get massage, i do yoga.

Posted 1/28/2011 10:14 AM (GMT 0)
yoga is good! so is tai chi and chi gong. :-)
Posted 1/28/2011 12:54 PM (GMT 0)
I started taking Vit. C again.....ran out a while ago and just forgot about it. (dumb)...

.....and @ 1000 mgs. a day it seems to be helping to rid dopey head feeling. Maybe a coincidence....but I feel much better taking it.

Did a little trigger point massage as a self test and the 'bad head' did not happen afterwards.....still holding.....so onward with the Vit. C !!!
Posted 1/28/2011 2:14 PM (GMT 0)
I am also (or was in a past life aka pre-current-Lyme garbage)a massage therapist. I agree that MOST massage will trigger you to feel sicker, as it is releasing and subsequently dumping "sick' into your body. I used to always tell my clients to drink a liter of water post massage and if at all possible, get into an epsom salt bath as warm as you can handle for about 30 mins to flush out any toxins stirred up.

One thing I learned during my training was Ayurvedic Massage. There was a particular massage we did that was a Lymph drainage-type massage that was designed to move everything into the center of the body. It was then followed by an enema and possibly a sauna treatment. This was a MAJOR detox for most people and was specifically for people who were ill. After the procedure, though, the majority of the clients felt MUCH better, though it might have only been short lived(depending on the illness)

Part of my detox is using that very same massage on myself(best I can) followed by a hot epsom salt bath, tons of water, enema, etc. The next day I typically feel better. If not, I repeat the process.

The massage therapist I use for sports massage also does lymph drainage and I usually have her do both when I see her. She knows I have Lyme and I usually DO have her go deep as I know when I go home I will follow up with detoxing.

I think the biggest mistake one can make after ANY massage is not drinking enough water. MINIMUM of one liter to flush out your system! Otherwise all that garbage he/she freed up will just be reabsorbed. Yuck!
Posted 1/28/2011 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
As a matter of fact I do use acupuncture!!! I couldn't get by without it any more! My Acu doc has gotten ill, so I've had to miss two appts now & am feeling it!!!

Acupuncture has been scientifically proven to reduce pain levels, as well as doing many other things.
Posted 1/30/2011 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
raw runner.... you are lucky that you can tolerate that much of a detox. I desperately want to learn lymph drainage, but I've become allergic to plants, and oils are pretty much made from plants. I've been subsequently spending a lot of time doing thai massage and reiki.
Posted 1/30/2011 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
Oh, MoralAnimal...that stinks! I usually use a blend of organic sesame oil and coconut oil but you could use olive oil...but I am guessing those are all out for you :( I know its not the best, but what about a quality mineral oil? Lymph drainage is easy  enough to do to yourself....I could probably write you up a 'tutorial' :) if you ever feel ready for it...
Posted 1/31/2011 9:47 AM (GMT 0)
i found a pharmaceutical grade mineral oil. Unfortunately it might be my only feasible choice, unless I used lard. yikes! And Lanolin is WAY too thick. The mineral oil is a bit stickier than baby oil which is mineral oil that has a fragrance in it (fragrances are made from plants too!). I have no idea why it would be stickier. Can one slightly dilute mineral oil?

I'm kinda concerned about the fact that mineral oil supposedly "leaches" vitamins from your body. My limited diet already is challenging my nutrition!
Posted 1/31/2011 1:52 PM (GMT 0)
Are you allergic to coconuts? I am sensitive to them if I eat them, but I can use the oil just fine. You might want to do a skin test and see if you would actually react to them externally...coconut oil is WONDERFUL if you can use it. It isn't too sticky, soaks in nicely. I always recommend sesame otherwise for its healing properties, plus that is how I was trained in the Ayurveda tradition.

I didn't know that about mineral oil! I don't use it, but I wouldn't have suggested it if I had known :( I am sorry about that...

I completely understand about the food intolerances...I have about 20 things I am supposed to avoid and of course they are things that are in EVERYTHING! It is so hard, especially when you are feeling crappy and don't want to prepare something from scratch.
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