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Are antibiotics toxic?

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Posted 12/10/2011 3:25 AM (GMT 0)
Obviously there's a lot of debate over long term use of abx, and I'm no stranger to either perspective. Given that abx are man-made, I assume there's some level of toxicity going on, but I'm okay with that as long as the pros outweigh the cons. I mean I mean even coffee beans have toxins, but to me it's worth it.

I've noticed that I feel a herx within hours of taking my abx, like clockwork. I just upped my ceftin from 500 to 750, and with just one extra dose I feel worse than usual, and have a slight fever which is extremely rare for me as I run really low. I'm starting to wonder if the herx I feel isn't the Lyme toxins, but the abx. As far as the ceftin is concerned...Im allergic to penicillin and had a slight allergic reaction when I first started it (they're very similar), so maybe that accounts for the fever.

Just wondering of anyone has any insight into how toxic abx are. Of course I want to believe that the protocol I've been following for all this time is really working, but as I learn more and more about toxins, and feel better and better with the CSM...I can't help but wonder if maybe I don't need the abx, or if maybe in my particular body they do more harm than good.

Am I the only one who has a herx daily within hours of taking abx (and doesn't have one when I don't take them)?
Posted 12/10/2011 5:33 AM (GMT 0)
interesting topic, wish i could help...
Posted 12/10/2011 12:21 PM (GMT 0)
For once I am keeping my thoughts to myself on this topic!! 
Posted 12/10/2011 1:30 PM (GMT 0)
This is MHO, but no, I don't think abx are toxic.

HOWEVER - I do believe that when you have Lyme or associated/similar infections, that the bugs invade every part of the body meaning that you have millions (or more?) of them living in you and that's what makes you sick.

I also believe that if you're too aggressive with abx, especially at the beginning of the treatments, that the toxins released by killing off the bugs are toxic (they are called toxins, right?) and can cause liver and/or kidney damage. And all of those toxins make you sicker too (Herx).

So, I believe that anyone considering abx should start slow and monitor liver and kidney functions carefully.

As I said, that is all in My Humble Opinion. I am not a doctor and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. YMMV. One size does NOT fit all.

SM
Posted 12/10/2011 3:29 PM (GMT 0)
I changed my mind (hey, I'm a woman, I'm allowed to!)...

Ask your doctor and your pharmacist what the ingredients are in your abx and see if they will tell you...  That will give you the answers...  My bet is they won't tell you...

Darn, if you went to a restaurant and before ordering something that was unusual that was on the menu or a special, wouldn't you want to know what you were eating before ordering it?  I would...

Posted 12/10/2011 4:05 PM (GMT 0)
Your pharmacist could well tell you what is in your antibiotics, but you would need an advanced degree in biochemistry to understand the answer!!

Of course taking antibiotics is not ideal. Otherwise, they would be offered over the counter. But are they toxic? As in, are they poisonous? Most medicines are a controlled dose of some sort of poison or another. That is what makes them powerful against infection and ailment.

Western medicine relies on the idea that the benefits of taking the medicine outweighs the risk of what damage the disease can do. It's like bringing in the cavalry to fight a war. Makes a mess of the fields, but gets the war won.

I often feel a reaction within hours of taking my abx. But the same goes for the "natural" medicines I take. I am using Black Walnut, Artemisinin (Wormwood), Extract of Oregano, and Cats Claw along with my antibiotics. These things in certain concentrations are toxic (poisonous) in their own right. Not everythings that come from nature is benign!!

Many good medicines are like powerful tools: very effective but dangerous in the wrong hands. Your doctor obviously thinks the risks of taking abx outweigh the effects of Lyme disease and is monitoring you properly.

So don't look at your medicine as the enemy! Welcome it as the Help, the Heroes, the Rescuers, the Boys in Blue, the Reinforcements and do everything else you can to make the time you have to rely on them as short as possible. Because, you know they will eat you out of house and home, steal your women and get mud on the carpets!!
Posted 12/10/2011 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
***This is only my own personal opinion!!!***
Like many here, I don't believe that the abx are very toxic in the manner in which I believe you to mean, Borderlyme. What I do believe is that abx are not always the best choice for all of us! I know it wasn't for me, even though that's what I started treatment with years ago!

I happen to believe that if you have a very high toxin load, then your body isn't capable of detoxing like it needs to, otherwise the toxin load wouldn't have gotten that high. Now some people can use the detox methods that we describe in the "New to Lyme?" thread and that's all they need to do in order to keep ahead of the toxins that are continually being created and then need to be escorted out of our body.

For others, all they need to do is to take a little 'helper' herb - like milk thistle or something else to help their body function just a bit better and that's all they need.

Then there's others, like me, who's body is so overwhelmed with it all that it's like it's in a "fun house" with gobs of mirrors so that it can't figure out which way to go to find the way back (to health). It's those people that I feel would do best with alternative methods of healing from these infections. I know I sure have!

To be completely open and honest - hope this doesn't get me in trouble!! LOL! - when I first started to use the herbal mix that I use to heal from my Lyme infection, I wasn't convinced that it could even work! Fortunately, I was bound and determined to give it all the time it needed to work. Within 3 months I started feeling better, and within 4 months I started seeing some big improvements!! Now, at nine months, I think I am doing well to just keep my improvements from my Lyme infection as I heal from the other TBI's that I have that are stopping my continued healing from the Lyme - but that's going really well also!
Posted 12/10/2011 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
I actually just did some energy testing on all of my pills and the only antibiotic that tested strong was ceftin...which is the one I'm half allergic to! My body is saying NO NO NO to azithromycin and tindamax......both of which are pink...so I'm wondering if it's the dye that's bothering me.

Magnesium and vitamin D both also tested weak...weak in the sense that my body is rejecting them. Thought this was interesting since I've read theories about both being used in the body for the bacteria's benefit. I think I'm going to cut out both and see what happens. I mean yes my body needs vit d and mag too...but it'll just have to do without it for a while so the bacteria can't have any at its disposal either!
Posted 12/10/2011 7:29 PM (GMT 0)
When using the energy testing like that, it's my understanding that the situation can change in a fairly short amount of time -think weeks. Please be sure to re-test often enough to detect any changes so that your body will get what it needs when it says it needs it! :-)

As far as the abx, maybe you could call your pharmacist about the possibility about being allergic to the pink dye and if there is an alternative? Just a thought! smilewinkgrin
Posted 12/11/2011 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler I love the funhouse metaphor! That is exactly what I have been feeling!
Posted 12/11/2011 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
Oh geezzzz!! I am so sorry to hear that Yogi!! I know that I have felt that way in my head, and with my body - not to mention what I said above!! It was surely a weird thing to be able to 'feel' my body not knowing what to do!

It's a real shame that we have to go through all of this!!! Although it does seem to work out that the more ill we are the more we are expected (or at least need to) know about these infections! The good thing is that we can relate and are all here for each other, to help us get through those rough spots!!!
Posted 12/12/2011 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
I strongly believed in abx when I was first diagnosed with Lyme. I started on a high dose course of abx for Babesia and Lyme by my LLMD, treating the Babesia first. After a month on two abx, I had a strong anaphylactic reaction to some nuts and soy I had eaten that day. So bad my face was swollen, eyes almost completely shut, blood pressure dropping, etc, etc. Rushed to ER and it took almost a WEEK to recover from this reaction. Normally, it would only take a day or two for most people. I truly believe my body reacted this way because of the high dose abx I was taking at the time.  I was tested by an allergist, skin test and blood test, and they could not figure out what happened....why I had such a strong reaction.  They said I was slightly allergic to nuts and not allergic at all to soy! I am 47 years old and nothing like that had ever happened to me before. I stopped taking all abx after that incident.

I also believe that now my symptoms are worse than before the abx. Of course, that is hard to tell, because the disease could just be progressing, but my symptoms were never as bad as they were before. I am now beginning A-BAB, Samento, detoxing with epsom salt baths and Green Vibrance, and seriously looking into Rife machines.  I am feeling a little better every day, thankfully.

Everyone has their own experiences with treatments, and some treatments work for some people but not others. This is just my own personal experience, and I am glad for others who have found relief in their own treatments, whether abx or herbals. It seems to be trial and error with this disease!

Post Edited (Thia123) : 12/12/2011 8:51:14 AM (GMT-7)

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