Buhner, Bartonella

Hi everyone. Sick 6 years here, took 2.5 to get diagnosed. Lyme, babesia at first...treated those aggressively with Abx, Mepron, etc. Blood work for those coming up good now. Still very sick, recently got positive bart tests from Galaxy. Had a disastrous reaction to rifampin. Took biaxin for a few months.

Switching to Buhner bartonella protocol now. My question is, how rough has this herbal protocol been for people? Unfortunately, I seem to be one of the people who get very sick from nearly every treatment, which is very frustrating. And things that seem to really help other people feel decent--glutathione, for example--makes me sick as well. Also, my baseline functionality is so low, I have trouble knowing if it's the illness or treatment that is working me over day to day.

I started small doses of knotweed, trying to work in cat's claw, hottunyia, sida acuta and cryptolepsis. What I can't seem to find out is if (for example) knotweed is hard on people. I think the 'herx' term is overused, but I do get really ill. Trying to manage expectations, having some idea of what is a 'normal' reaction--even if it's a tough reaction--is very difficult.

The whole idea of suffering through die-off or toxicity or whatever is a bit hard to deal with. I DO lots of detox. I also do things for the methylation issues I have. Still, this has already been a very long road, and if anyone has been down the road I'm beginning to go down, your feedback would mean a lot.

my baseline is low. I'm basically not able to leave the house. I can make food, clean up after myself...but not much more than that. I often have full body burning neuropathic type pain, weakness, trembling, an overall very 'sick' feeling (malaise, I guess, but strong), sweats, heart palps. , almost constant dizziness/head pressure, nausea, abdominal pain. I sometimes have seizure-like episodes when I am trying to sleep--simple partial type. For years, seemingly triggered by nothing, my stomach will bloat up hugely for 2-10 hours at a time. I wake up every single day in tremendous pain, dizziness and malaise

So, then I began the herbs, and things have just been a few degrees harder/harsher.

I don't mean that to complain, just to explain that I have been quite sick for a long time now...there's a violence to how ill I get that is very hard to take. I'm always wondering if other people are experiencing anything like this. I'm never quite sure what to make of others' experiences..because sometimes I read that someone got-felt very ill, they list very extreme symptoms and level of illness (or die-off, or reactions)....but then they'll write that they went to a party or mowed their yard or something. And that confuses me, in that I realize they are not really talking about the same kind of 'sick' that I am experiencing.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or feedback, I'd really appreciate.

ecotick,

Hi. You'd have to try much harder to sound rude..

I have had experience with herbals before, quite a bit actually. I really was trying to find out most specifically about peoples' experiences with the Buhner protocol herbs and more specifically, those for bartonella.

And with others' experiences, HOW slow ramping up worked for them.

That kind of info--others' experience with this protocol--could really help me manage expectations and stay on track.

For example, started over a week or so, small amounts of eleuthro, knotweed, sida acuta and cat's claw....SMALL amounts. Though, I think I did start with a bit too much knotweed. After a few days, had some massive headaches, weakness, tachycardia and nausea. Now, I often have those things, but they kicked up into scary territory.

So, it led me to wonder...how slow should I be doing this? How slow did others have to go? Etc.

Thanks very much for your response.

Michael,

I started the Buhner's protocol about four years ago on and off until about a year ago.
I did not follow the full protocol, instead I focused on the herbs that were making feel me better, i.e. knotweed, andrographis, cat's claw, ashwagandha and boneset.

In fact some of the herbs and supplements, I could not tolerate but in very small amounts.
If a I take a herb and it makes me feel unwell almost straight away, I do not consider it a herx. When I had an actual herx, it usually took a few days to start and then build up, it was mainly intense flu-like symptoms, increase in fatigue and night sweats.

Since you asked for feedback, I'd try one herb at the time until you're sure that one really helps you.
For e.g. knotweed is supposed to make you feel better, which did it for me from the beginning.
If it doesn't, I would try something else, for e.g. stephania which is supposed to help with some of the symptoms you listed. Eleuthero made me feel worse from the first few drops so I ditched it and went for Ashwagandha which instead was great from the start.

Based on my own experience, and I spent three years unable to leave home and mostly horizontal, healing from Lyme doesn't take years building up micro doses of remedies. Either something works or it doesn't. When it does, progress comes relatively quickly.
Unfortunately we're all different and we need to find out what works for us in our particular circumstances.