HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Herx 'after' detox bath?? Depression getting the better of me.

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 5/21/2013 6:14 PM (GMT 0)
First, I want to apologize for the long post. I just have to get this out as I have no one else to turn to. My family has been dropping away like flies. My 39 year old son who came home to take care of me when I got sick 10 years ago is my only sanity. But I can only tell him so much, as he is in a panic over the thought of losing me.

I've been on Dr. J's protocol for only 3 months. My mental fog has cleared up considerably. My other symptoms come and go with no rhyme or reason.

I've been doing epsom salt and peroxide baths at least three times a week since I started. They've always relaxed me before bedtime. I read an old post by someone who is symptom free and claims that using food grade hydrogen peroxide in her bath (only 8 ounces) has been instrumental in her healing(?). I ordered it, but it hasn't come yet.

Two nights ago I took my usual detox bath, and fifteen minutes after I got out, ALL my symptoms came on like a freight train. Headache, burning eyes, ear ringing, burning skin from head to toe including throat and vaginal area; back pain, knee pain, etc,.. all to the nth degree. I took a pain pill and a sleeping pill and rocked myself to sleep crying. I woke up in a total panic attack with morbid depression.

The only other time this has happened to me is when I took someone's very well meaning advice and tried using Thieves oil for my joint pain.

I think those of you who suffer with major depression would agree with me that emotional pain can often be worse than physical pain. I've just been through 48 hours of depression hell that was so bad I couldn't bare to be awake for fear that I could think of nothing but ending it all to stop it. So I took a sleeping pill every time my thoughts went in that direction and have slept for most of the past two days. I've suffered with depression since childhood. Not sure if it was caused by a horrible childhood environment or the fact that I was bit by a tick at 8 years old. I'm now 63.

What has me the most upset is that herxing so strongly after a detox bath has caused me to start doubting my treatment; and if I lose that faith, I have nothing. I've ordered a portable infrared sauna. Now I'm afraid to use it. I "do not" believe in abx. Although I do believe in naturopathy, I've been unable to find any who are Lyme literate. From what I've read, I feel that the majority of LLMD's are not the gods most people think they are... and I have neither the money nor strength to go looking for one.

I'm in a very fragile state. I need any help you can provide. Please don't be offended if I don't respond immediately. I have to go back to bed.

Thank you.
JupiterGma

Post Edited (jupitergma) : 5/21/2013 6:37:00 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/21/2013 11:36 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Jupitergma,

Please don't apologize for your post, it's not long at all. 

I don't know what happened to you, I can only guess...  Perhaps the detox bath "woke" up some "old" toxins which caused you to feel this way.   You have been sick a very long time and all those toxins hide in your bones, joints, etc. and don't want to budge.  Detox baths are a cumulative effect so my thinking is this bath started really moving those toxins out of your body causing you to feel so bad.

What hydrogen peroxide does is add oxygen into your blood stream which is really healthy so I don't think it was the hydrogen peroxide, I think it was the bath itself.

I would take a couple of days off from the baths and start them again but only stay in the bath for 10 minutes just to see how you feel.  Is the temperature of the bath water really warm or room temperature warm?  The reason I ask is that if the water is too warm that could also make you feel bad.  The rule of thumb is that the water should be 98.6 temperature.

You can also do the mustard/cayenne pepper foot baths in the meantime.  And I'm glad to hear that you ordered a portable sauna, I love mine because it makes me feel so relaxed and mentally makes me feel better.

I feel so bad for you but know that I'm thinking of you and please hang in there.  This will pass and you will emerge feeling so much better.

Big hugs,

Denise

Posted 5/22/2013 5:42 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, hot baths can cause severe Herx reactions. This happens as the spirochetes which cant stand the heat, die off and cause their toxic waste to flood your body. This is the same process your body creates when it raises your temperature to create a fever to destroy an infection.

Please tell yourself that the worse the Herx, the more of those bacterial ******s you are killing off. This disease is a war and we can win it. This alone made these reactions better for me to deal with.
Posted 5/22/2013 12:00 PM (GMT 0)
Have you tried treating the depression? It was truly a life saver for me. Once you can see things in apositive light, I believe it is easier to heal. Also, don't overdo the detoxing. It can really set you back. Give your body a chance to heal. Its just like treatment. Listen to your body and when it screams slow down, do it. It will actually help in the long run.
Posted 5/22/2013 7:12 PM (GMT 0)
I'm getting ready to walk out the door to take my Mom's dog to the vet, so this is a quick reply - - but Jupitergma, I had to respond!

That was what happened to me the very first time I took a detox bath! I had a massive herx and a three day migraine! That continued to happen every time I took the full detox bath for months. I finally realized that it was just too much on my body when all those toxins were suddenly being released into my blood stream - so I started using the foot soaks only. Although I did continue with the daily dry skin brushing, drinking at least 64 ounces of water a day and eating foods that encourage the body or assist the body in detoxing as well.

It may be that your body is having issues with too many toxins - be sure you are doing all that you can to help your body rid itself of those toxins, avoid the baths for now and use only the detox foot bath - but still don't use hot water and don't stay in the water longer than 10 minutes to start. Don't do these daily either, start off with once every four days or so....if you feel your body is strong enough that day. I would also go back to using the "regular" strength peroxide.

Don't let this add to your depression, it's just a bump in the road. Once you figure out how to proceed, you will be able to get past this as well. It's just a matter of time till you figure it out, and we are here to help!!

As far as your symptoms coming an going with no rhyme or reason, it could be that you are like I was, I had so many different infections, all doing their own thing that it was impossible to sort it all out - even the one LLMD that I saw said that to me!! LOL! Since each infection has it's own time table that it likes to work on, 3 weeks for one, 2 weeks for another, and 4 weeks for another & so on, it's no wonder we can't figure it all out!

As your treatment continues and you get a handle on how to help your body detox, the symptoms will get less and less severe until you are feeling almost human again!! :-)

Hang in there, and you came to the right place to both vent and ask for some insight!!
Posted 5/22/2013 7:46 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for your replies. Still sleeping most of the day, but I think the depression is slowly lifting.

Deejavu and vcast: Yes, I take pretty hot baths; but always have. I will definitely take a break for a few days and lower the bath temp. But .. Denise..if I can't handle a hot bath, how will I ever be able to handle a FIR sauna?

Springsjean: I've been on many different antidepressants as well as anti-anxiety meds for many years. I've been labeled 'treatment resistant' by numerous psych docs.

Trav: Thank you as always for coming to my rescue. I'm now very confused about the 'detox' baths. I thought the whole idea was not only to kill the bacteria with the heat and oxygen, but also to 'release' the toxins that were killed off. If this is not the case, then why refer to this as a method of detoxing?

I could handle the physical pain, and even the never-ending ups and downs were it not for the depression. Some may say they're related; but that isn't the case for me. I've suffered with major depression since childhood. Regarding the peroxide, I want to start a new post about that. Curious to know if anyone has used the food grade and if it made any difference, either positive or negative.

I went on Buhner's site to see if there were any herbs that might help the depression. He recommends eleutherococcus tincture by Herb Pharm. At this point I'll try anything.

Thank you all again. This forum is truly my life line.

Post Edited (jupitergma) : 5/22/2013 2:08:45 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/23/2013 11:59 AM (GMT 0)
I am so very sorry that you are having such a hard time with this, Jupitergma. I agree - it's the emotional that's the hardest for me as well - always has been.

Yes, the point of detoxing is to kill off a few more spirochetes (Lyme bacteria) with the heat and oxygen, and to mobilize them into the blood so that the body can get them out. One of the more common issues is that sometimes too much dead bacteria/toxins are mobilized for the body to handle.

This is commonly when a person will have lymphatic massage or take a tincture to help the body 'flush' or get moving again the lymph fluid through the lymph glands (that's what 'filters' the blood).

You may also need some liver or kidney support to help those organs deal with the extra load of toxins too. If you find that you have pain, pressure or a 'heaviness' in those areas, you should talk with your practitioner about getting something to help your body deal with the overload of toxins being released.

Remember, this is a body wide event, so any organs that are struggling will give you some troubles. This is where an experienced Practitioners are priceless - they should be able to determine where your body is struggling and add supportive herbs or whatever to help out.

I was Blessed, as my Practitioner was very good at 'seeing' what parts of my body were struggling and knowing how to help support them. Made my healing journey much smoother!

As far as whether or not the depression is related to your infections - you know your body best - but it's quite possible that the infections that you have are at least adding to the depression that you have been struggling with for so many years.

Whether or not that's true, you probably should think about taking something to help out with the depression if you aren't already. Depression can and does make dealing with the physical stuff a lot harder.....and we don't need anything to be any harder than it already is, right? :-)

Big (((((hugs))))) to you!! Know that we are all here for you!
Posted 5/23/2013 1:01 PM (GMT 0)
Hi again Jupitergma,

I agree with everything Traveler said... I just wanted to add that using an Infrared Sauna is a bit different compared to the detox baths.  Detox baths consist of the epsom salts and hydrogen peroxide in which the combination of both work together to pull out toxins out of your body and at the same time put more oxygen into your blood.  So alot is going on....

On the other hand, using an infrared sauna is like sitting out in the sun.  The rays penetrate your skin a bit deeper just like the sun does and can cause you to sweat.  Totally different method compared to the baths.  Many articles state that using an infrared sauna gives a person a feeling of well-being..  I know I get that when I use my portable sauna.

The article below states this:

"Inside the electro-magnetic spectrum, Far Infrared heat is manufactured by the sun. It is a portion of the sun’s invisible band. Even though the band of light is not detectable to your eye, you feel the heat sensation. This is the heat you feel infiltrate your skin when you are out in the sunlight. You could compare it to sitting in a car on a chilly day and being able to feel the sunlight come through the window. In addition, infrared energy is also produced as body heat. You know that natural warmth you feel when you are sunbathing? Even your sunscreen can’t stop that, as it only blocks UV light from penetrating your skin—not FIR (far infrared) light waves. In fact, you can experience Far Infrared heat for hours and it will never damage your skin.

Far Infrared energy heats things by direct, molecular excitation, without heating the air between the spaces. Far Infrared rays infiltrate your body’s tissue much deeper than near infrared rays do. Your body absorbs Far Infrared heat waves that encourage the transfer of water across cellular membranes. Once this happens, and the cellular membranes are hydrated, your blood flow is enhanced and ultimately assists with an assortment of biologically beneficial healing functions.

The most notable characteristic of Far Infrared heat is its exceptional ability to penetrate far below superficial skin layers. When this occurs, it constructs a natural resonance, which has numerous advantageous properties. Infrared energy is measured in wavelengths as microns, and the human body can best absorb infrared energy in the 3- to 50-micron range—with the best absorption occurring at 9.4 microns (the same as the human body). These rays penetrate deep into the body where they gently elevate the body’s surface temperature and assist in expanding capillaries which stimulates blood circulation. By elevating the sub-surface tissue temperature, a series of continual changes constructive to human health will be instigated."

http://www.jashbotanicals.com/articles/far_infrared_saunas_1.html#history

Hope this helps and that you feel better!!

Hugs, Denise

Posted 5/23/2013 4:56 PM (GMT 0)
Trav and Denise,

Thank you so much for the additional information. Glad to say I'm slowly improving, but it's been a tough few days.

Trav - I do take Milk Thistle, organic Tumeric and Dandelion tea for liver and kidney support. I've been on many different antidepressants; however, nothing works for very long. I've been labeled 'treatment resistant' by several psych docs. Lucky me, huh? It's not like I'm depressed every day. I can be okay for weeks at a time and then wham.. out of nowhere my world completely falls apart.

I read an article yesterday about researchers working on a new drug for people with treatment resistant depression using Ketamine. It supposedly works immediately! Sounds very promising but God knows when it will actually go to market.

www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/depression/art3839.html

Denise - After reading all the great information you provided on FIR saunas, I can't wait to get mine now!! Should be here in about a week.

Will definitely read the whole article when my head clears.

Again, thank you both. As my grandson would say.. "You guys rock!"
Posted 5/24/2013 2:37 PM (GMT 0)
Have you checked into herbal treatment for your depression? It could be that you need the synergistic working of herbs rather than the targeted approach that Western Medicine gives. I've found that Motherwort tincture and Avena Sativa (Wild Oats in the "milky stage") together really conquered my depression - although I can't say that my depression was 'treatment resistant' as I never went to the Western Medicine doc's to find out!

Just a thought!
Posted 5/24/2013 10:24 PM (GMT 0)
I'll certainly look into those herbs Trav.

I'm still on Effexor as it's a tremendous help for my head-to-toe muscle pain. I was originally diagnosed 10 years ago with fibromyalgia due to those symptoms. As I now know, fibro is just another one of the many illnesses that Lyme can imitate. Over the years, as I got bombarded with so many other symptoms, I began to suspect Lyme.

I know there are many herbs such as St. John's wort and other herbs in that category that I can't take due to the risk of serotonin syndrome; so I'll have to do some research.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Posted 5/24/2013 11:01 PM (GMT 0)
Wow Jupiter, I can really relate to your post.  It's funny, because I was just wondering why one would herx from a detox bath if a detox bath is supposed to help with herxing in the first place?  It makes no sense. 

Just as I was thinking this, I went on the internet, searched herxing, and it went right to the Healing Well forum, and opened directly to your post.  I guess I was meant to read it!

Talk about trouble with impulse control:  After reading the stuff on Lyme, as well as on Crohn's (ie c. diff.), I went way overboard.  First off, I took Cat's Claw for the first time.  Then I did a probiotic enema.  Then I took a mustard seed bath.  I feel awful today--migraine, fatigue, a bit of nausea, plus my can't-get-out-of-pajamas syndrome.  So how do you treat any kind of herx?  Is liver support enough?  I guess I'll do the foot baths only.

I can also relate to your feeling of intense depression and alienation.  I feel like I'm losing friends and family left and right.  My best friend got burned out with caregiving, and she's off the radar.  My family thinks I'm weird.  During the worst of the c. diff. (which seems better now), I got into a deep, dark depression.  The Vancomycin didn't help; it only made the feelings of depression and disorientation worse.  I'm on anti-depressants, but they haven't helped much lately.  I mostly feel very alone, and I also feel that people are judging me (ahh those stigmas . . . .).  The only thing that helps is my dogs these days, and walking in my lovely mountainous neighborhood when I'm up to it.

To make things worse, my therapist, who was really great, had a stroke, and is getting more and more discombobulated.  Sorry, I sound so, umm, down.  

BTW, does Dr. J. use alternative medicine?  What is his protocol (if you can't do abx)? 

We should talk . . . . 

Margaret  

Posted 5/24/2013 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
Jupiter, do you mind if I email you?  I don't want to do so without your approval. 

Margaret

Posted 5/25/2013 2:31 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Margaret,

Welcome to our forum! Not only will you find a wealth of information, but the most wonderful, caring people you'll ever know.

Feel free to email me anytime. I can't promise that I'll answer immediately; but I will answer. As you know, I'm slowly improving after a very intense herx and have been sleeping a lot.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

JupiterGma
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply