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Posted 5/26/2013 12:23 AM (GMT 0)
Seeing as though hot baths kill the bugs, than why don't we use that to our advantage and put it into our lyme-destroying routines. Of course, starting slow, like always, to control the herxing. Using Epsom salt, only, to detoxify. When we work our way up to a half an hours bath, than maybe we could start adding hydrogen peroxide. I don't think that there is a more natural way to kill those nasty bugs. What do you think?

While we are on this subject, couldn't we use a hot bath, maybe with just HP, for people that are unsure if they have Lyme or not, or a co-infection, and base the results on whether they herx or not. Seeing as though there are no meds involved, there wouldn't be any confusion with possible side-effects. I believe that something could be learned here. Again, what do you think?

Dan  

Posted 5/26/2013 1:16 AM (GMT 0)
Mustelid,

I used that very reasoning to create a protocol for my daughter 0ver 4 years ago. It was very effective for its intended purpose.

Here is the link to a recent post that I made for that protocol:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2722003


I must again emphasize that extreme caution must be taken to prevent a herx. Using this protocol has the potential to rapidly reverse longstanding neuropathy/joint pain/hypersensitivity, or it may create a severe extended herx that will only serve to make you miserable and disillusioned. One person has already experienced the second option after telling me that she would go slow in implementing the essential oil and the antimicrobial. Well apparently it was still too much for her. I cannot stress enough that the effectiveness of ANYTHING that is antimicrobial in nature may be multiplied exponentially when used in conjunction with heat and proteolytic enzymes to dissolve the biofilms and cysts. A person can often tolerate hot baths when used alone. The same person may tolerate a drop or two of an essential oil when used alone. That same person may experience a terrible herx if those 2 things are used synergistically along with the enzyme. It is not a matter of simple addition. It is a matter of multiplication. Here is an article that inspired me to take this approach:

http://www.xpressnet.com/bhealthy/bath.html


You can quote me on this:

"No treatment should ever be undertaken that can cause a herx that exceeds the capabilities of your detoxification approach."

Dan, good luck with this, but do not underestimate the synergistic power that may be created when you leverage everything with heat. Please keep me posted on your progress.

Don
Posted 5/26/2013 1:18 AM (GMT 0)
The hot baths don't make everyone react. Heat does kill the bacteria as you say, but it also can bring on one heck of a herx!!

Using hot water for the soaks always gave me a three day migraine, so I learned my lesson after the first bath or two! I never could stay in a hot bath for more than 10 minutes without paying for it dearly.

For some of us, there are kinder ways to determine if we have the infection(s).
Posted 5/26/2013 1:28 AM (GMT 0)
Traveler- this protocol is not a test to determine if you have an infection. This approach is for the minority of people that are motivated to eliminate certain symptoms, but also have the foresight and ability to PREVENT a herx. For that reason, its definitely not for everyone!

There is no reason for anyone to herx if they start everything off at a low level and proceed slowly.

Don
Posted 5/29/2013 6:39 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you both for responding. Unfortunately, not a lot to report. I took two 20 minute hot baths starting at 109 degrees. The first bath was just with Epsom salt(32oz), the next night I also added 32 ounces of hydrogen peroxide. I don't feel anything different, no herxing or anything. I'm so confused, last year I did my only full bath detoxing and for 4 days afterwards I fell into a very deep depression.
My Doc thinks that I have Bart also. My symptoms, mostly neurological, could be Lyme or Bart. I have no definitive Bart symptoms. My symptoms recently have been sore knees, a very stiff neck and moderate to major depression. With no herxing with the baths, should this be Bartonella???

Yesterday I started 10 drops twice a day of houttuynia and, again, so far, no herx!?!

Can any body help me figure this out?
Thank you, Dan
Posted 5/29/2013 6:52 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Dan,

Beth here. I had herxes in the beginning for like 2-3 days up to mild herxes like brain fog for 2 weeks but now - hardly ever. And I'm only 3 months into treatment. I started Biaxin and I had to stop b/c heart stuff but then I realized it was really just the Houttuyunia. I started flagyl this weekend and again - thought Oh Boy uh Oh but its Wednesday and I don't feel any different - no herxing; nothing even 'off'. Hopefully this just means that I'm getting better - fast.  What I have now is issues like with the houttuyunia where i just can't take it b/c it amplifies my heart issues. Herbalist thinks that this is a herx but b/c it is with the heart we aren't going to risk it. She isn't even sure if she wants me to use artemesia which totally bums me out because it is supposed to be effective.  

Posted 5/30/2013 12:27 AM (GMT 0)
Mustelid,


i couldn't find any scientific studies on whether Bartonella is temperature-sensitive, however, I did indirectly. Apparently it uses a "heat-shock protein" to adjust from going from a cold host, such as a tick, to warm hosts such as mammals. This suggests to me that these organism probably are not equipped to cope with temperatures warmer than most mammalian body temperatures. I believe that birds are not infected with Bartonella, but that they can only carry the tick. Buhner reports that Bartonella are more heat-sensitive than Borrelia, but he does not provide any documentation for that statement.

http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/miscellaneous/bikram-yoga/

We have to be clear on one thing though. You cannot raise your body temperature high enough to outright kill either Borrelia or Bartonella. I believe that the heat just makes them both more susceptible to antimicrobials and the immune system, as was surmised by the researchers in the link to the Stonybrook study that I provided.

My daughter had great results from my protocol when she worked her way to 1 hr long hot baths. I don't believe that 20 minutes is long enough to raise your core temperature for an effective enough period of time. Once again- be careful. Work up slowly. It seems that you are really looking for a bad herx. Are you using a proteolytic enzyme? Actually, Thieves Oil may serve both as a cyst buster and antimicrobial concurrently, as it has excellent tissue penetration.

Don
Posted 6/1/2013 1:44 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Beth for your response and you sound like like you are healing fast. That is great, but make sure that you stay on your treatment plan till the very end.

Thank you Don for all of your information that you have provided, it is greatly appreciated.
Last year, when I herxed on my first detox bath, it told me that I still had a lot of bugs in me, I believe. My doctor told me that she believes that I have Bart as well but we weren't quite sure. Seeing as though you need to treat the Bartonella first, I was trying to see if I even had Bart to begin with. So, I'm already up to 30 drops a day of Houttuyunia in a few days and there is no herx and no herx with the baths. 20 minute baths were plenty long enough for me to herx last year and 30 minutes is my max anyways.

In a sense, yes, I was trying to mildly herx to try and figure out what is going on with me. Does anybody know how to test at home whether or not somebody might have Bart or not.

And, hopefully, with no herxing from the hot bath, it seems that my Lyme isn't as bad as it was last year. That's somewhat good news.
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