really bad experience w. Buhner's protocol for C. Diff.--really upset

I emailed back and forth with Ju., Dr. Buhner's herbalist, prior to a phone consultation, and she was actually really nice. I have an antibiotic-resistant strain of C. Diff., which means that any antibiotic can trigger a relapse.

Apparently, Buhner's protocol for C. Diff. calls for a combination of Cryptolepsis and Coptis, along with Echinacea, ginger, and licorice. To kill the C. Diff., she had me on profuse doses of Cryptolepsis and Coptis, up to a tablespoon three times a day of the two tinctures combined, along with very high doses of Echinacea. At first I thought I was getting better, and the flu, or virus, or whatever it was did indeed get better.

But then, the C. Diff. got exponentially worse. I didn't even realize the herbs were antimicrobials until I started herxing, so I asked her if they were, and she confirmed that they were (at least the Cryptolepsis and Coptis). I started feeling a little scared, but I assumed that she knew what she was doing, and that the herbs would surely be different from antibiotics.

Evidently, I was wrong, and now, I'm back in a full relapse of C. Diff.--already very weak and shaky, and unable to sleep. I did an iodine enema last night, and am now taking massive doses of probiotics, and will continue the licorice and the ginger. Sometimes just stopping an offender helps, so I'm hoping that stopping the three herbals will help. My sweats and chills (Babesia alone, or some kind of combo)? have gotten so bad, I'm barely getting any sleep.

The County transportation service is taking me to Wake Forest Baptist tomorrow to see my GI doctor.

What I want to know is how much more am I supposed to take? Hopes up, then dashed, how many times? I haven't even told anyone this has happened, was too tired to even talk to J. about it last night.

My two dogs are on abx, and I'm so scared they might get c. diff.! Plus, Sophie is scheduled for surgery.

Margaret

Oh Margaret,
I'm so so very sorry!!! There has to be a way out of this for you!! I wish I had some ideas, but will continue to think on things. I really hate these diseases & infections!!!

When is Sophie supposed to have surgery? Is there anyone that can come help you for the first few days after her surgery - even for an hour, two or three times a day? If not, is this a surgery that can be put off just long enough to allow you to heal some first?

Thanks for the sympathy,

I think the reason she was so zealous was that I made the mistake of telling her I had almost died from the first bout of C. Diff.

She probably wanted to be sure what is supposed to be a proven remedy on Buhner's protocol for C. Diff. would work for such a persistent case. Maybe Buhner would have known not to do this. And most likely, she had never worked with drug-resistant strains.

But she's an herbalist, not a doctor. I don't know what Buhner would think, but she is part of the Gaian website. I hope she talks to him about my case, and that they talk it over; perhaps not. He's getting up there in years.

I'm glad you told me about the herxing, rowing. That partially explains the horrible sweats and chills. I better up the Burbur and lemon water.

I had forgiven her, but now I'm starting to get a little mad, although I think it was a mistake, obviously, not an attitude problem like most doctors have.

My LLMD had recommended the Buhner protocol bc he had heard Buhner speak, and he was very impressed. I trust my LLMD implicitly, still do. He didn't say anything about the herbalist, but since she is Buhner's herbalist, I made assumptions.

I'm going to have to call my LLMD; he'll be horrified.

The Cowden did make me feel better, before I began to see some of the symptoms of c. diff., but nothing like the relapse I'm having now. I have to say that had I gone on the Cowden protocol the way Cowden recommends it, I would have probably also gone into a heavy C. Diff. relapse.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do now. My LLMD doesn't do alternative medicine much, but he suggested rifing, "heat therapy" (which is something they do in Germany), and hyperbaric oxygen.

First things first: The c. diff. I'm hoping the iodine enema (last night) followed by the heavy duty probiotic enema (today) with me doing yoga inversion poses in the bathtub (LITERALLY) will help.

But my tummy is sore.

M

That's still a very large amount of cryptolepis. I am kind of suprised myself at the suggestion of the large initial dosage, especially if she knew you were dealing with babesia.

Our daughter has never had symptoms of babesia, except for the ones that showed up during the cryptolepis herx. For us, using lower doses of the herb has greatly improved executive function and ability to concentrate, just the way malarone did.

I'm sorry you had this experience, but it sounds like you are well versed with your C diff symptoms and how to address them. I hope you recover quickly.

No matter what we do from now on (and I don't care who is making the suggestions), I know that I will always be starting at low dosages, one thing at a time, and increasing slowly. That's the only way to find out how much you can tolerate, and what kind of herx is caused by each addition. That and daily probiotic/fermented vegetables.

It can take a while. It's so easy to be impatient, to want healing right away, but everyone is different and has different infection loads. One size rarely fits all.

Oh Margaret, that's awful. I hope you feel better soon. How are you doing today?

Sorry everyone.

Yes, Opu, I will be tested for c. diff. yet again.

I recognize the symptoms; they started while I was doing cowden, and I was already feeling better from the cowden protocol, but I guess something in the protocol got to my gut.

whether the cryptoleptis etc. caused the diarrhea to be worse because of herx, or bc of c. diff., I don't know. things did finally get a bit better, after I did the probiotic (sorry) enema, and went to a pureed and blenderized diet (temporary, I assure you). darn shift key on right side doesn't work!!

But during the crypto I had a horrible herx and the diarrhea did get really bad.

I've never had diarrhea from herxing before.

thanks, blue. My tummy is better, but I have a constant headache and backache, Lord knows why, and my lymph nodes are extremely swollen. It's almost as if the flu part of the flu never went away, although the fever and resp. symptoms did go away.

still walking the dogs every day.

and yes, shelly, I did a fecal transplant when I came down with c. diff. the first time, and it helped, but if I were to do it again, I would do the naso-gastric thing, as opposed to the enema.

get this, I paid the county's transportation system $65 to drive me to Winston-Salem, and I had a 10 min. appt. with my GI doc., but I totally forgot to tell him about my hernia!! which I probably got from the first bout of c. diff.

btw, how do you know when you weigh too little? I am 5' 6 1/2" I'll tell you how much I weigh after you let me know what you think.

Thanks again, all. M

Swollen lymph nodes could be your herx toxins trying to drain, but which are backed up by the shear volume of them.

Same thing with the flu-like symptoms. Endotoxins produced by bacterial die-off cause the release of immune signalling cytokines, which increase inflammation to draw white blood cells to the site.