Cowden Protocol questions?

^ You can definitely take them all in one glass!

I am in the 9th month of Cowden (made affordable by use of their financial assist program) & feeling much better. My neurological issues seem to be gone, but I'm having issues from Leaky Gut (15 mos on abx. )

I highly recommend Cowden.

Yes Sarah, it looks like he has them arranged perfectly to not interact with each other. It is interesting information though. Guess I didn't really think about some of them having to stay away from others! Has anyone out there had great success with the Cowden protocol without having used any antibiotics. I am finally getting my stomach properly balanced and the last thing I want to do is throw a bunch of antibiotics at it. I have acquired allergies to cane sugar and all dairy products and am hoping to one day rid myself of those. I must admit I have lost weight with my new diet restrictions, but eating is a pain! There is sugar in just about everything out there! I have found a lot of good dairy-free, sugar-free products that are actually quite tasty! Anyhow, I would prefer to avoid the antibiotics all together if possible, but wanted to know if anyone was successful with that approach?

Thanks,
Karen

I will be starting the full Cowden protocol as I wean off abx next month (per my LLMD).

In anticipation of a new round of herxing (as the tinctures get areas of infection the abx couldn't), I've been using the detox tinctures every day (following the first 3-4 days of the Cowden protocol).

Without a doubt, the tinctures are to be used with water....and I don't think juice is a viable option - waaayyy too much sugar.

The Nutrimedix site has extensive information on the protocol and I've found most answers to my questions there.

I think it's important to follow the protocol as it was designed. I would imagine the tinctures work synergistically.

It's supposed to be with just water, as far as I know. It won't work well if you put it in juice or something. I think in the PDF of the protocol, it says as much. Just water. I don't think it really has a taste though! I'm 14 days in and I don't recall any of them having a bad taste

Welcome Zipa_83!

Sorry for the reason you're here but glad you found us. It sounds like you are aware of the importance of detoxing and that's great. And, please know that a question is a question and no question is ever lame - it's always best to ask when in doubt. I'm glad you reached out to us.

Since you need to cut back on the sauna/detox baths, perhaps you might consider adding a few different daily detox methods from this list:

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

Even though my LLMD was the one who told me to transition to either Buhner, Cowden or White herbal protocols, he was/is unable to guide me since he's not familiar with herbs.

That said, there were a couple of times that I didn't increase per the Cowden schedule and I'd just pick up where I left off once I got up to whatever dose I was supposed to be taking.

To be specific in regards to your situation, I'd be at a "stand still" at Day 159 until I could handle the full 30 and, THEN continue on with Day 160, 161, etc.

Now that I'm doing Buhner and am still titrating the Babesia and Bartonella herbs, I'm not so much worried about which day is what. I'm experiencing improvements and always planned on treating well past two months of being symptom-free.....sort of like maintenance doses.

However, one of the differences between the Buhner protocols and Cowden's is that Buhner suggests continuous dosing of the same herbs while Cowden rotates the herbs.

It's because of this that I made the suggestion I did. I think you need to be taking full doses of the herbs that treat Lyme and the various coinfections before rotating to the next set.

What does your LLMD have to say about it all?

Dear Lyme hopeful

You put the ALL the drops in the same paper cup and mix together. THen add 3oz water mix again. leave to sit 1 minutes then take
Are you drinking water 2 to 3 ounces every 15 minutes? ,nutramedix said doing it this way flushes out toxins better.Drink minimum of 3 litres a day


elaine

Greetings all, I've read through the entire thread, and I realize it is older and lengthy, so I am hoping to get some updates and info about the Cowden protocol.

To anyone who has been on the Cowden protocol, how well did it work for you?
How badly do you herx, and were you able to detox?

My LLMD has had me on Samento and Banderol for 6 months, along with Monolaurin (EBV active infection)and several supplements to boost my immune system. Then he ordered the next phase, oral abx (He is an MD...board certified internal medicine....and practices functional/integrative medicine). He added clarithromycin 500mg/2xday pulsing 4 days on/3 days off. I took it the 4 days and then 2 days later I had the worst day/night of my life with a horrible herx -- worst migraine ever, violent vomiting (I don't usually have with migraines) insomnia, suicidal depression....it took me 3 days to be able to eat normally. So if that is my reaction to antibiotics...I'm just researching "plan B's" just in case.

I welcome any comments from your knowledge and experience about the Cowden or other herbal/natural treatments. And any comments about my bad herx reaction. I usually just use Alka Seltzer Gold, lemon water, and a daily liver detox to detox. But I couldn't keep anything down, and was too sick to do a detox bath, etc.

Thank you,
Trisha

Post Edited (Geckolady57) : 5/8/2016 7:06:50 PM (GMT-6)

Welcome to our community, Trisha.

Sorry that you had a bad herx...and just want to add that you should up your detox - try adding in a new method every few days. The standard dose of Clarithromycin for lyme is 500 mg twice daily...so you herxed on a really low dose.
If a full bath is too much at this point, you could try a foot bath.
Also dry brushing - before your shower.

Are you taking probiotics?

Sorry, i'm not the Mod who knows Cowden - so can't advise you on that.

Welcome Trisha!

Sorry for the reason you're here but glad you found us.

You've been given great information already.

And, I'm sorry but, I don't understand how you have the impression that it's about 80% accurate that you're negative for Bart, Babs, Myco, etc only because Lyme rarely travels alone. Coinfection is more common than not. Tick saliva is like a salad bowl of infectious organisms.

Some people who receive prompt and thorough treatment after a bite won't necessarily develop symptoms of all the infections they actually have.

However, those infected for a long time usually do have more than one infection and the symptoms of the infection(s) (many of which overlap with Lyme symptoms) sometimes become more prominent as time goes by.

The testing for the coinfections is less reliable than Lyme. Not only is it hard to find the organisms, there just aren't enough tests for all the various strains. For example, there are several dozen strains of Babesia and tests for only 2. There are over 30 strains of Bartonella and tests for only 2. Same deal with Lyme.

These infections are best diagnosed clinically - based upon symptoms.

All of that said, the full Cowden protocol (not just Samento and Banderol) is designed to treat most of the common tick-borne infections - not just Lyme. I know Cowden claims that Samento and Banderol treat Lyme and its coinfections but taking just those 2 herbs just isn't enough.

For thorough treatment, it's really best to follow herbal protocols as they are designed. You see, certain herbs work synergystically - they enhance the actions of each other.

In the event you are unfamiliar with the full Cowden protocol, much information can be found on the Nutramedix site (manufacturer of the tinctures):

www.nutramedix.ec/ns/cowden-support-program

What I found especially helpful with Cowden is the information that can be gleaned when trialing the coinfection-specific herbs. The reactions we have (herx or improvement) on a coinfection-specific herb can aid diagnosis with coinfections.

Leaving possible coinfections untreated can impede healing from Lyme. And, please be aware that the healthy population can be asymptomatically infected. The CDC addresses this possibility on their site:

www.cdc.gov/parasites/babesiosis/

"Although many people who are infected with Babesia do not have symptoms, for those who do effective treatment is available."

www.cdc.gov/bartonella/clinicians/index.html

"Most cases of cat scratch disease (CSD) resolve without treatment", although some patients may develop complications from disseminated disease.

Cat scratch disease is the henselae strain of Bartonella which is a common coinfection to Lyme. Actually, researchers and savvy doctors are now saying that Bartonella is so prevalent that Lyme should be considered the coinfection.

If healthy people can have no symptoms of Babesia or Bartonella and still be infected, it's entirely possible that those of us dealing with any of these infections could also be infected with Babesia and/or Bartonella....and not necessarily have any symptoms...or have mild symptoms...or just one symptom (mild or not)

All of that said, you might want to consider speaking with your LLMD about "testing the waters" for coinfections with trials of herbs or meds.


As far as detoxing is concerned, you'd benefit from adding many more methods that you use on a daily basis.

Here's some info about why we need to detox along with a very comprehensive list of detoxing suggestions:

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

And, here's a link to a recent thread wherein members shared what they are doing for detoxing which might help you figure out ways to incorporate more methods into your daily life:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3602759

No matter what, healing is possible but the journey can be long. In light of this, it's really best to maintain a journal in which you record symptoms and whatever treatments you are using at the particular time. Maintaining a journal can help you possibly identify the presence of a coinfection and will also help you realize you've improved somewhat despite all the symptoms that might remain.

We will help you throughout your journey for as long as you'd like company :) After all, we're all in this together.

Most LLMD's acknowledge that the co-infection testing is not reliable/accurate. The ones that do want the testing done...do so knowing that a negative doesn't mean negative...but a positive is positive.
So, I am surprised that your LLMD says a negative result is 80% accurate.

Just keep that in the back of your mind while you go through treatment...and if you are not responding ....or hit a plateau in treatment...it just may be that a co-infection needs to be addressed.

Also, if you do use herbals in conjunction with antibiotics, you can always hit the co-infections that way.

I have never done a foot detox bath, but yes, fill a bucket of water - not too hot...and a cup of epsom salts would be good.
The dry brush should be a natural bristle brush with a handle. You can dry brush before your showers...and even without a shower...if you take a damp cloth and wipe your skin after. You are correct - brush toward the heart.

cowdens is weak sauce imo they have some good formulas like pinella sparga enula etc but there herb ratio is a mere 4 to 1 where byron white is a 90 to 1...whole herbs have been more cost effective for me