rifampin herx hell

how were you feeling before the rifampin?

how long might this herxing last?

Hi Kate!

So sorry to hear about this, man you have had a rough few days! Rifampin hits the bart pretty hard, so it is possible since bart is such an immune system inhibitor that other 'bugs' are becoming visible to your immune system.

Just go slow and steady. Lymebabe has given some really good detoxing ideas. I really like the detox shake, it is basically 1/2 cup of cilantro, 1/2 cup parsley, 1/2- whole lemon (rind too!) Throw it all in a blender and add a teeny bit of something sweet like OJ or pineapple just to make it palatable. Works very well for herxing.

Don't mean to gross you out but make sure you are going to the bathroom at least once a day also. This is very, very important to make sure all the toxins that are making you miserable have a way out!

~beth

You can 99.99% expect this to go into remission. And you will feel healthy again. Just keep on trucking. If after a few months you don't feel different or have plateaued - go a different path. That seems scary when the first one you pick should work but many of us have to tweak things for it to get just perfect!

That being said - many improve quite a bit after just a few months. You would be amazed at the members we go through in a year. People feel like they are dying, start treatment, then come back 3 months later saying they are feeling better then ever and will be ending treatment shortly...and most of them don't come back.lol So the probability is largely in your favor of remission!

My LLMD also started me on Rifampin and after 3 days, I'm feeling very blue and fighting back tears all day. Altered mood has been the bane of my existence. I was doing very well after fighting the babesia for 2 years and thought I'd turned a corner, but then I contracted some type of awful bacterial infection (maybe from visiting in a hospital?) which knocked me for a loop for over a month. Now, The doc is addressing my Bartonella, and I feel like absolute hell. Such an awful, lonely feeling. Hope it's because of a Rifampin herx and that I'm not simply falling to pieces. I just want to be myself again.

Thanks so much, Tano, that's a great way to explain the feeling that we're all longing for. What happens, though, is that this miserable illness wears you down so badly that you really can't remember that you had any good days. I started treatment in March of 2012, and I will say that I probably had Lyme and coinfections for decades, so I guess it's going to take even more time to reach that magical day when I feel well for more than a week at a time. I'm retired now, and I can tell you that this is NOT what I had planned for my retirement years. Too much heartache, too many tears and fears. I'm going to keep on trucking, of course, but Lord, how I just want to be the real me again.

Thank you for your encouragement.

I am doing it for sure. I am waiting till this afternoon to take my 1/2 dose because a few hours after I get hit hard and I want to make sure my husband is home from work to take our kid- today my kid isn't in school so I am home with him alone- but I am going for thr rifampin and feeling grateful at this point for it knowing it will knock the hell that is bartonella out of me. I plan to do 5 days at 1/2 dose ( day three today) and then full dose. I am ready to get rid of this.

vcast said...
Guys - Rifampin will not cause a herx. I repeat will NOT cause a herx.

Rifampin doesnt kill bacteria and it wont cause an increase in toxin load causing a Herx like traditional antibiotics. Rifampin *does* inhibit bacterial synthesis. Meaning it actually prohibits the replication of the bugs at a RNA level. It other words, it actually stops the bacteria from spreading without killing them and without releasing more toxins. Its fantastically good for this too and synergistic with other antibiotics if you ask me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifampicin

Believe me, I am very skeptical of the "herx hysteria" in which every downturn or flare is considered a good sign or herxheimer reaction ...

With that said, when I took rifampin, within 24 hours I had red streaks and lines all over my arms and chest ... I had been taking ceftin and biaxin for 6 weeks prior ( a record for me ), and when I added the rifampin, the lines exploded on my skin ...

Maybe the red lines are a sign of something else - I don't know ... I don't think anyone knows for sure ...

The doc who was prescribing all this took me off after 4 weeks b/c I mentioned the lines and the fact that I didn't feel much improvement - I was also constantly feverish ...... that was my last experience w/ antibiotics, and I wonder - had I stayed on longer, would I have gotten over the hump eventually ( ? )

This study says that rifampin "killed ( malaria ) parasites quickly":

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2043295/


I have read that rifampin also has anti-viral properties

www.nature.com/nature/journal/v229/n5284/abs/229422a0.html

( sorry, old study, but I remember seeing others more recent )

I don't think anyone knows for sure, or can tell what is happening when we react to things like rifampin ... It can cause so many reactions, it is impossible to tell what is going on ...

The more I read about this, and the more I relate my own experiences, I am starting to think that what we think of and refer to as "bartonella" is actually a parasite similar to babesia ( maybe even a type of babesia ) ..

The term "BLO" or bartonella-like-organism is sort of a vague inept way to describe it, but at this point, we have nothing else ..

But does it matter what it is called ?? ... What matters is that we find what it is susceptible to and how to eradicate it ...

A lot of people are now trying farm and livestock anti-parasitic drugs like ivermectin and biltricide ... It is insane ...

All these drugs - esp the antibiotics - were developed decades and decades ago - nothing has been done to eradicate the onslaught of infections people are suffering from because of tick bites ...

No wonder so many are turning to herbs

I actually think that is the way to go

Ohhh, I feel for you. Rifampin has kicked me down a lot. Detox as much as you can!

I don't know. I read a lot of threads online of people who took rifampin, felt worse for a while and then felt better.

For me I felt awful that first day- and pretty bad the second day. Had some increase in panic attacks- had to take valium three days in a row. I am happy to say I have not had a panic attack or needed to take valium in 2 days- so that is a start.

I don't even know what is going on with me at this point- I am just doing this rifampin and all these other antibiotics and herbs because better safe than sorry.

At this point my stomach feels awful- I think the rifampin plus the other two antibiotics is ripping it to shreds- despite lots of probiotics.

But at least I am not bedridden like the first day.

Every time I take a dose of these antibitocs I don't really want to take it but I think of the future and how I will be hopefully glad I did it now and how I will hopefully feel better then- so I trudge through it.

My feeling is the antibiotics are the hard hitters and I am doing them now- then I will do a few months of herbs which are probably gentler. That is what my doctor said.

actually rigt now I feel a big increase in symptoms- it is up and down. But the rifampin seems to kick in like 5 hours later so far and the herx I guess happens. I don't know really. Some things feel better and some worse and I do't know if I am just still the same or herxing.