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Thinking of quitting ABX ! - looking for thoughts and experiences :)

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Posted 8/16/2014 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
I'll give a brief background info on me so you know where I'm coming from.

- I have Lyme+Bart+Babs+Anaplasmosis.
- I had symptoms for 4 months (caught relatively early)
- I have been treating for 4 months with ABX + some herbals. My ABX are Mepron+Zithro+Doxy+Flagyl (pulsed)

Although I made progress initially, I feel like I am killing myself with these drugs. I only decided to pursue ABX because I thought I could permanently cure this infection, but that does not look to be the case anymore.

Since treating Babs hard (doubling Mepron dosage to 2 tsp twice a day), I got new Bart symptoms. Ever since then, I have been deteriorating. I am still fairly functional, but I don't think ABX are going to cure me at this rate. After 4 months of treatment, I should be better than this.

So now, I want to pursue a full herbal protocol. I am thinking of combining Cowden + Buhners protocol, and throwing in some Byron White in there too.

Any thoughts? I feel more comfortable with this since ABX are completely poisoning me, and since I can always return to them if the herbals fail.
Posted 8/16/2014 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
I too am thinking of quitting antibiotics!  I would like to quit antibiotics myself.  I am like 90% better and i have basically been stuck here. 

I have more or less plateaued since late April, and I really am not much better that I was since then.  So I plateaued for like 4 months. 

In your case strategy.  You said you had a recent infection but it has gone chronic?  I wouldn't stop the abx yet.  I think the azithromycin and doxy are good ones for you that hit all the germs, also keep up with the mepron.  Since you are not getting much better, maybe ask the LLMD to take out the flagyl for now?  I think that one is one that makes you feel toxic.   

The Cowden protocol didn't work for me.  While I do believe the banderol and samento were tremendous helpful for the Borrelia.  The Nutramedix houttuynia didn't work for bartonella. 

Posted 8/16/2014 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
Hey LymePickle, what are you thinking of pursuing post ABX treatment? And how long did you have Lyme before you started treating? Also, did you do the full Cowden?

I'm just tired of poisoning myself with all ABX, when a herbal protocol has the ability to essentially cure me without any side effects (or very little in comparison). Who knows what months of Doxy+Azithro+Mepron are actually doing to me? There are no long-term studies on this..
Posted 8/16/2014 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Strategy. I had lyme for about 3 or 4 days and I started taking minocycline, 200 mg daily since then! I am not kidding. I had a prescription for mino that I didn't use so I am kind of lucky to have had that. I finally met an LLMD about 2 months after my infection date. And I am still sick. I too thought if I catch it early it would prevent it from going chronic, but doesn't seem like it, I think I'm in for the long haul now. I actually think it depends if borrelia is disseminated. If it is localized in the skin following a tick bite then yes it can likely be cured only at those points.

No, I didn't do the full cowden. I ordered the full cowden herbs though. I found benefit from using it for awhile but then bartonella started getting pretty bad. I had been on banderol and samento just 1 month post infection! I believe it works on lyme. But my bartonella symptoms began getting bad.

Yes the most difficult thing about these diseases is there is no guarantee of any treatment success. I think an LLMDs guidance really helps because the treatments for these diseases is very complex compared to other illnesses.

Post abx... I want to go for the Buhner new bartonella protocol. For Lyme I don't really know what I want to do. I am convinced cured twice's protocol is the best thing for lyme but involves the use of 250 mg tinidazole + 100 mg minocycline every second day. I may try banderol and samento again before that but we will see.

Post treatment... I am going to go on a healthy diet, continue to eliminate carbs, get exercise, adequate rest, and I will take monolaurin daily as I believe that effective against Lyme.

Also there is the Chronic Tonic.

Probably herbals are the way to go. But who knows, maybe there are side effects from herbal treatment protocols too?
Posted 8/16/2014 9:17 PM (GMT 0)
I would caution anyone that is wanting to hit these infections with more than one protocol at a time: Please be under the close supervision of a doctor that knows and understands the herbs or abx that are being used.

Over the years that I have been on this forum (since May 2007, so 7 years so far) I've watched as several members have done just this - thrown everything they could at these infections. Every time they have struggled badly and then crashed. They usually ended up in a hospital because they got so ill.

While I agree and fully understand that these infections need strong medication and often high doses -we do need to be very careful with our bodies - they are already under great stress with these infections and many times we can do too much, use too many treatments or detoxing things. And let's not forget that not only can the abx be toxic, so can the herbs - make no mistake about it.

Just be very, very careful - please.
Posted 8/16/2014 9:44 PM (GMT 0)
MisterMike, nice to see that other people are thinking along the same lines as I am. What led you towards Buhner/Chronic tonic over the Cowden protocol/others?

Also, do you worry about losing some gains initially when weaning off ABX?
Posted 8/16/2014 9:47 PM (GMT 0)
@LymePickle, it's quite shocking that you caught this so early and still haven't gotten rid of it. I have no doubt in my mind anymore that I need to stop this treatment. I can't believe I somehow regressed on ABX after initially getting better. I began treating Babesia, and then Bartonella came out and its been downhill since then. My symptoms are not debilitating by any means, but it makes no sense for me to pursue something that does not work. Even the best LLMD's do not permanently cure their patients, so I don't know why I'm trying to permanently cure myself with ABX.

I think the best option for me is to pursue Cowden, while combining other aspects of treatment like Buhners Knotweed and GSE (cysts/biofilms) and Lumbrokinase (biofilms). This addresses all aspects of the disease for the most part. And I'll add anything else I can think of at that point.
Posted 8/16/2014 10:27 PM (GMT 0)
Mister mike,

In a matter of 1 day after skipping a dose of Doxy, I had some minor symptoms return. this confirmed that abx are only keeping down the infection but not actually eradicating it . If anything, it's more of a reason to stop abx. At least if the herbs are keeping down the infections, you won't get the toxic side effects from abx
Posted 8/16/2014 11:33 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Mister Mike. I just wanted to say another thing though. Not ALL antibiotics are toxic. They all effect the body differently. In my opinion, amoxicillin is probably one of the least toxic ones if you are not allergic. The major only downside to this one is that it kills your gut microflora, I think that's the only negative health consequence but all abx do that. This antibiotic is far less toxic than all of the intracellular antibiotics like for example tetracycline, macrolides, bactrim which work intracellularly.

Rifampin is hard on the liver because it is difficult to process and sometimes can increase certain liver enzymes.

The fluroquinolones are usually well tolerated but can have the most serious long term side effects of any antibiotic. And then there is flagyl & tinidazole which we know are pretty bad.

But amoxi for sure is less toxic. My LLND sometimes will prescribe it with herbals.

Also as traveler said, sometimes herbs in excess can also be toxic.
Posted 8/17/2014 3:42 AM (GMT 0)
I've been dealing with this crap for almost 16 yrs now. Ayervedic medicine was the best, thank God I found it within 2 yrs of becoming infected. Of course I didn't know what was wrong and only took the Ayervedic for about 7 yrs.

Finally I got diagnosed on November of 2013, been on ANX since December of 2013, it had taken 5 month before symptoms started disappearing and now I am at about 8 months and my chronic pain is a lot less and I am even having days where I am having no pain.

I would stick it out a few more months, I hate the ANX since herbs did me so good in the beginning. It is unbelievable what I can do today, working on a roof for 12 hrs, cleaning 3 huge places in a day when just a few short yrs ago I didn't think I would make it.

Things will turn around for you, just believe it will and see it happening!
Posted 8/17/2014 4:22 PM (GMT 0)
I'm a retired RN in Texas, but the Lyme is from my youth in NY. I gotta say....I can't even remember or know anything u guys r talking about due to memory loss. Mine is neurological. One year anniversary on IV regiments.

As a nurse, and a very ill person....I would never give up a battle if it was early Lyme.
Posted 8/17/2014 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
Me again.....Lyme savy doctor most impt.
My IV treatments include antibiotics, Vit c and diflucan......just added Glutahione once a week
IV is so much better, quicker.....I believe.....the C is very important
Posted 8/17/2014 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
Me again....I agree with the moderator. As a nurse, I always told patients one new thing at a time, or u can't figure out what works
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