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What are the life cycles of the bacteria?

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Posted 1/29/2015 7:59 PM (GMT 0)
Just wondering what the life cycles are of each: lyme, babesia, and bartonella?

I have been feeling really good the last few days and don't want to get my hopes up. Either what I have been doing has had a positive effect, or the surviving nasties are in some sort of infancy stage. I am starting to keep a symptom journal and just want to know ahead of time what I am up against.

Thank you!
Posted 1/29/2015 10:41 PM (GMT 0)
I read that Lyme replicates every 4 to 6 weeks.

I'm not sure about babesia and bartonella, but hopefully someone else knows. I was just wondering that!
Posted 1/29/2015 10:47 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks! I think a lot of folks may need the info, hopefully someone can share!
Posted 1/29/2015 11:13 PM (GMT 0)
It looks like Bartonella may be about every 7 days or so:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2106155

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2473777

Everyone is different. So, you may have a shorter or longer cycle.
Posted 1/30/2015 3:06 AM (GMT 0)
So, if the cell cycle for lyme is every 4-6 weeks, what does that mean exactly? Will you start to feel a little better around that time and then crash again, or feel your worst around that time?
Posted 1/30/2015 3:26 AM (GMT 0)
It depends on the environment
Posted 1/30/2015 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
Regarding Lyme:

"It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism’s cell cycle, with the

growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their

growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should

be at least four weeks. If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of

ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued.


With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters

its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed. For unknown reasons, the worst occurs at the fourth week of treatment. Observation suggest

that the more severe this reaction, the higher the germ load, and the more ill the patient."

Page 17, http://www.lymeneteurope.org/files/burrascano-lyme-guidelines-october-2008.pdf

This is also discussed throughout the guidelines.

Hopefully, this helps. :)

------------

I broke this up for easier reading.

Post Edited (Lymie Girl) : 1/30/2015 10:56:36 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/30/2015 6:31 PM (GMT 0)
Awesome, thank you!
Posted 2/5/2015 7:53 PM (GMT 0)
Lymie Girl- That clears a lot up and makes so much sense. I think my body might be backward or something... I have been on my first antibiotic regimen for 5 weeks and have felt really, really bad since the first dose of antibiotics I took. I assumed it was just a long herx since it's my first one. Last week I started feeling a little better, but it only lasted 4 days and now I'm back at my worst again.

So, i'm trying to figure out if my body herxed for the entire life cycle, recovered for a few days and then starting herxing again.

Not sure if any of this makes sense. Brain fog is one of my worst symptoms these days!
Posted 2/5/2015 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
kkarcher14,

It is possible that you might have a very high bacterial load.

"Observation suggest that the more severe this reaction, the higher the germ load, and the more ill the patient."

"If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued."

Page 17, http://www.lymeneteurope.org/files/burrascano-lyme-guidelines-october-2008.pdf

It's possible that you have such a high load of bacteria that the die off has not settled down and you have not settled into these "more regular" herx cycles. A regular cycle for you may differ. Since you recently started, you may not have cleared enough bacteria out of your system. However, there could be another reason. I would run this by your LLMD the next time you see him/her.

In the meantime, it is crucial that you detox, detox, detox. You might even step up your detox to clear out these toxins. There are lots of helpful suggestions in the "New to Lyme" thread. You can do a post stating what you are doing and asking for recommendations.

There are many ways to detox. I don't know your medical history and symptoms and different people are more sensitive to certain methods. So, you should check with your LLMD and do your own research. Some of mine include: I drink lots and lots of water. Lemon water is great. I drink Yogi teas, mainly the ginger, which I really like. I also have tried the Detox tea. I take Burbur, Pinella and Parsley. Pinella works great for brain fog and cognitive issues for me. I have taken epsom salt baths (not too hot or you will kill off too much bacteria and feel awful-check out the "New to Lyme" thread. I did this before I knew I had Lyme and I felt like I was going to die! Haha.) Alkseltzer Gold is supposed to be good. I just bought some. These are some ideas to ask about. I'm not sure which ones you are doing. Ask your LLMD about ways to detox because I don't know your medical history and I don't know how you will react to various methods. If I fall behind on my detox, I feel much, much worse.

I hope you feel better soon! Hopefully over time, your bacterial load will lessen and you will start to feel better. The guidelines are very informative. I recommend reading them in full if you have not already done so and you're up to it. Feel better soon!

Also, I learned the Comparison Chart of Lyme Disease and Co-Infection Symptoms listed in the "New to Lyme" thread indicates that Babesia flares every 4-6 days. Babesia is a blood parasite (contained in red blood cells). So, it is slightly different.

http://www.lyme-symptoms.com/LymeCoinfectionChart.html
Posted 2/5/2015 11:20 PM (GMT 0)
But, no matter what, the body can't handle herxing and healing well at the same time. The herxing has to be at a low level or stopped or the treatments need to be reduced - otherwise the body will turn it's attention to the one that is most likely to cause life threatening situations - herxing.

If you continue to herx, you need to increase what you are doing to detox and increase the amount of time you are detoxing - or lower your dose of abx/herbs until you do quit herxing.
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