What causes us to be sick?

What causes us to be sick? For Lyme patients, the answer surprisingly is not borrelia burgdorferi. It is known that only a small percentage of people that have the borrelia burgdorferi bacteria have Lyme Disease. It is a contributing factor as it produces quinolinic acid and depletes us of nutrients that are vital to proper functioning. But why do people have heart problems, anxiety, neurodegenerative diseases, etc? We need to go down to the atomic level of cellular processing and look at what is happening and what is not happening. In math, we know that 2+2=4. In microbiology, we know certain reactions must occur at the cellular level. When we get sick (no matter what the ailment) some of these cellular reactions do not occur. They don't occur because some of the components used in the reactions are unavailable to be utilized in the reaction. They are depleted, bound by molecules that render them ineffective at their targeted binding sites, or they have moved to another area (ie extracellular). What happens for most of us is often all three of these things.

Since I see a lot of migraine patients, I'll use them as an example. Traditional medication may be Imitrex, propranolol, or Fioricet. These do nothing but mask the problem. The physicians and patients do nothing to try to find out what is the cause of the migraines. Low magnesium, low carnitine, high protein intake, caffeine/methyl transferase issues, or metal blockade of the methylation cycle, there are many potential causes for migraines that aren't even looked into. I can often find several things with a person's diet that they may be deficient of that may help but it's just one factor, there are usually others. This is the same with other conditions. Many factors come together to cause issues and if we put the missing pieces together one by one, the puzzle comes together. Metals are a huge issue and I would say a major player in most disease. Our pathogens allow more metal to be accumulated and need to be addressed for long term health. Think metals, think lack of nutrients that drive the enzymes(Cu, Li, Mg, Mn, Se, Bo, Zn), and think of improving your immune system. Eating correctly (basically few people eat correctly, it's very difficult), detoxing the metals, and removing improper bacteria from the GI tract. IMO, borrelia burgdorferi by itself is manageable in most individuals. Borrelia with H pylori, strep, staph, mycoplasma, babesia, or prevotalla is what causes poor health. I think if you treat borrelia without trying to decrease your unwanted pathogens in your GI tract, your treatment will take much longer.

Hi all,

Been a long time since I posted... Anyway, I agree partially with Georgia Hunter though I don't understand all the scientific words GH used.

Georgia Hunter, I am curious to the statement you made about seeing Migraine patients? Are you a doctor? Just wondering...

Anyway, I do believe that most people carry borrelia bacteria and never get sick, why? Because they are truly healthy (I know some people think they were healthy when they became sick but everyone has their own definition of "healthy") and their body takes care of it all by itself without any help from antibiotics, herbal remedies, etc.

I have been well for 9 years without any symptoms and I know I must have been bitten by ticks, fleas, and other vectors that carry lyme bacteria but I never relapsed or became sick again. I attribute that to what I learned when I did have lyme which was changing my diet, constant detoxing (which I still do and probably will do for the rest of my life), addressing stress levels, etc.

When I look back to when I was sick with lyme I realize my life was a mess. I was working way too many hours, had bought a house, was taking care of my boyfriend who had crohn's disease, etc. I did not eat healthy and knew nothing about detoxing. Basically I was compromising my immune system because of everything I was doing.

I remember about one year after being well I found a tick attached inside my belly button and I didn't get sick. Again, I attribute that to everything I had learned about being healthy.

I believe one must look at the entire picture of one's life, not just the bacteria. Mind, body and soul as they are all connected...

Denise

I read somewhere once that Borellia was actually a begnin organism, but our bodys reaction to kill it cause all the problems. I dont know how legit the article was but I got me thinking

In my simple mindedness.........

Many illnesses become worse from deficiencies you didn't know you had.

Detox is a buzz word around hear just like herxing.

Remember, to some extent, our bodies self detox all the time. I bet people that dont get lyme self detox well - because everything works.

Some of us dont detox well, even with detox supplements. Big red flag, big road block in the pursuit of health.

Now that we know Genetic mutation testing (23andMe) can show detox issues, this is something worth looking into.

Correcting gene mutation issues.........well, I'm in learning and experimental mode at the moment.

I know what you are saying about it lying dormant, but my thoughts are that it is only dormant because our immune system keeps it in place. Without the immune system keeping it in place, we get the symptoms and problems from Lyme. I can see the virulence of it getting stronger over time and it becoming more prevalent. I think Lyme causes more damage now verses the past because of the increased pollutants in our environment and the decrease of nutrients in today's food. I'm not sure on the Plum Island conspiracy theories. It's certainly plausible but I need more info to make a call one way or the other.

It appears that you are advertising this book all over this site in many forums, Magoo2. Almost every post you have made lately in many different forums on this site promotes your dentist's book. Please don't do that, as that's against the rules. If you would like to comment, we welcome you, but you can do so without mentioning his book.

I have to agree with much of what Georgia Hunter has said here. Indeed there seems to be a multitude of contributory factors as to why a person gets sick. If virulence was the only or chief factor as to why people get sick, then everyone would get sick upon exposure to the most virulent of pathogens. Take me for example. I have probably experienced far more exposure to Borrelia and other pathogens during my 60 years of life than the majority of people on this forum! I am an avid outdoorsman with a lot of occupational exposure as well as many years of hunting, fishing, and other recreational outdoor experiences. I have experienced many "tickbites" over the years that I have detected, and how many others that were undetected? I haven't gotten sick, nor do I even test positive to Borrelia. Am I to conclude that I have never been exposed to these "virulent" pathogens because I have not been sick, when most of the ticks carry the pathogens?

My wife has tested positive for Borrelia for at least 8 years, but has not been sick. It doesn't seem that the alleged virulence of the pathogen has been the determinative factor in her case either.

Let's look at the issue from yet another perspective. When a person is bitten by a little tick or mosquito, there is an injection of a relatively small number of pathogens into the person. Some people are capable of preventing the pathogens from taking over, while others are not. It is illogical to posit that virulence answers the question as to why some people get sick. Some people stop the pathogens in their tracks while others others are overwhelmed with staggering numbers of multiplying pathogens. Surely the large pathogen load becomes a major issue, but it is not the root issue.

The conceptual paradigm that provided the cure for my daughter was similar in some ways to that held by Georgia Hunter. Each person has a unique set of contributory vulnerabilities that created a milieu favorable to the pathogens. It is the sum total of all of these vulnerabilities that leads to illness. The Borellia and/or coinfections are only one factor among many. For that reason I view the pathogen to be less than the all determinative cause. I view the pathogen(s) not as a cause, but as a "tipping point" that leads to illness. The main issue is.... what are the factors that preceded the tipping point? Deejavu has brought out many of the factors as they pertained to her situation, but there are many other possibilities as well.

During the last decade I have gained a more realistic understanding of the world in which we live. I used to think that the germs were relatively rare, and that they must/could be avoided at all cost. Boy I received a rude awakening when I began to realize that we live in a flood of microorganisms, both beneficial and pathogenic!

My opinion is that the mainstream medical establishment is too narrowly focused on the role of the pathogen(s) and not even cognizant of the role of more fundamental factors. Others have listed some of these factors in this thread. I choose to use the broad moniker of "modern living".

Don

No problem!! And I appreciate you being so understanding! Thank you!

Heathersdad- I agree with you. We must find the underlying reason why some people get sick and others do not.

My entire family has been bitten a zillion times by ticks. My husband tested pos. for Lyme and 2 co-infections after getting a bullseye. 8 weeks on abx and no other problems in the past 8 years. He has also been bit by more ticks during that time since being cured. Again, no problems or relapse.

My 3 adult children, their partners and my 11 grandchildren (plus all the dogs and cats) that live on our wooded acreage, have also been bitten many times. Again, no signs of any Lyme in any of them. Why?

Me....not so lucky. I've been suffering for 4 years and tested neg. ...Twice.

To look at the differences in all of our life styles. I guess I was the one with more unhealthy habits. It couldn't be enviromental because we all drink the same water, breath the same air and dig in the same dirt (so to speak). But if it was my unhealthy habits (diet sodas, smoking, junk food), wouldn't there be a lot more people out there with Lyme?
Let's face it. The vast majority of the population is a lot more unhealthy than I used to be. And what about the little kids that get it. Shouldn't their immune system be able to fight it off?

A little off subject. I watched this wonderful documentary and thought about us that have Lyme at this time in history and it sort of correlates. I thought it did anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsaBmJjIDpM

Green blue-I have met three really bad people with lyme in my life (in bed for years). I met tem all at a swiss clinic-the one thing I remember from all of them is that after years of doctors this was the only doc to test them for heavy metals-they all had top of charts heavy metals. I am sure they also had other issues its just one that remember.
One was almost entirely cured about 18 months later-she went from needing people to carry her to traveling alone and told me she was almost back. The other two I frankly lost track of.
Have people gotten their heavy metals tested ? Or is that just to alternative for this?

Yes, foods today are not what they used to be. I'm 58 years young and I remember when meat tasted like meat. Today I won't eat meat because of pink slime, etc. Who knows what's really in meat or if it really comes from a cow? I don't know but the last time I tasted meat it was not the same. I am not going to pay the high prices for organic meat and I don't even know if organic is really organic!! Slowly I am transitioning to eating veggies locally grown by the farmers where I live. I still eat chicken but again, who knows what's really in it? I make lentil burgers which are really healthy (I use lentil beans from Bob's Red Mill).

Happyjo, thanks for the kind words!!

Magoo2, did you know that Dr. Jernigan trained with Dr. Thomas Rau? Dr. J. does not use all the same techniques as Dr. Rau but holds many of the same beliefs.

A long time ago I watched a lecture that Dr. Thomas Rau gave at the Marion Institute in Massachusetts, if anyone is interested below is the link (Dr. Rau uses the word milieu many times, hard to understand because of his accent):

www.marioninstitute.org/biological-medicine-network/resources/videos/dr-thomas-rau-lyme-disease-talk

Last but not least, I think I responded so well to Dr. J's protocol because I had lost my upper teeth (wish I didn't) from an auto accident when I was crossing a street when I was 17 years old thus I didn't have as much metal in my mouth compared to most.

Denise

I agree, Trav.

I just answered to another post about this. Btw, you sort of used dr K approach: he detoxes people for months and only after that he treats Lyme and co. I agree that this is what has got you well. That's why I am a big fan of detoxing my kids. Yesterday I gave them nothing but detox things. And it works! They feel better and they are not even on abx. My 5 year old is 99% symptom free from herbs and detoxing :) but still her legs hurt if she has to walk more than just playing around the house. I actually am amazed because I don't give her a lot of stuff! Yay but still have a ton of work to do :)

The route I chose to use was out of desperation to be honest - treating with abx was the "standard" treatment used by LLMD's back in 2007, which is why I tried to go that route. Even though I believed strongly in herbs, I didn't know enough to try it on my own - until I had no other choice when abx didn't work for me. At that point in time, everyone assumed a person was doomed if they couldn't tolerate the abx, so I stuck around as proof that no one was doomed necessarily - that there were many options to try.

Now, we have all types of different treatments that a person can try. I feel like it's highly unlikely that a person couldn't find healing with some kind of combination of therapies - the trick is finding a doctor that will work with all of them - and affording them.

I am on a fixed income with only hubbys disability, so I have to watch money closely even on my health. None of this is inexpensive, but we all have to work with what we have available to us in ways to pay, the docs around us, and what knowledge there is on the different protocols and what works and what is just dangerous to try.

Bottom line in my eyes - there's no wrong way to heal from these infections - just stay away from the dangerous stuff.

Happyjo
Who was your question directed to?