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Posted 8/4/2015 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
hi so whem a person starts abx and wants to start detoxing immediately, i understand the detox baths, start slowly and daily if you can...

as for saunas, is daily ok in addition to the bath or in place of...and is it ok to be really hot, i know baths are a certain temp...would starting out in saunas for short periods be the goal building up

thx
Posted 8/4/2015 2:14 PM (GMT 0)
The saunas you should be using are specifically infrared saunas. And yes, you would want to start in short periods and see how you tolerate it.

http://www.tiredoflyme.com/infrared-sauna-and-lyme-disease.html

"A non-infrared sauna and steam room will undoubtedly help remove toxins from the body, but they appear to be more aggressive on the body in relation to an infrared sauna. You'll find that spending the same amount of time in an infrared sauna compared to a steam room or non-infrared sauna will yield different results.
Infrared saunas also have a different method for heating up the body to induce sweating. It does so by emitting infrared radiation, which in an essence is the same reason why we feel warm when we sit in direct sunlight on a summer's day. The infrared radiation is able to heat up deeper levels of tissue that would other wise be out of reach for a non-infrared sauna or steam room. As a result, there is a higher concentration of toxins in sweat from an infrared sauna.

In an infrared sauna, the air surrounding the person is cool as opposed to a steam room or a non-infrared sauna, where the air can become incredibly hot. Those with air hunger, a common symptom of Babesia, will find they actually breathe easier in an infrared sauna because the air is not hot and oppressive, unlike a non-infrared sauna or steam room."

Posted 8/4/2015 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
CrayMom, I would definitely start S-L-O-W. I recently got an Infrared, Ozone type sauna and I started off at 15 minutes on the lowest level one day - went okay. The second time I went in it, did another round like the first time and couple of my toes started hurting like heck when the thing shut off. So strange, but I though it was just some freak thing that wouldn't happen again. Anyway, the third time, thought I could bump it up some and more toes started hurting and I noticed my calf vein was SO protruding and that area hurt like fuzzin' heck- yikes. Scared me so much, I haven't gone back in it. So the moral of my story is that DEFINITELY use the sauna, but take it very SLOWLY and build up, BIT BY BIT. I think if I ever use that thing again, I will start at 5 minutes and work myself up gradually week by week as opposed to day by day. Also, I just might have a circulatory problem, I don't know. I contacted the company and they told me they'd never heard of such complaints. So maybe I am just a freak of nature, have no idea. Your body will definitely tell you how to take such detox methods - one just has to listen to it.
Posted 8/4/2015 5:52 PM (GMT 0)
Great post, Sarah, thank you. And a very helpful caution given, needhelp!! I'm marking this thread so that I can post a link to it when talking with others.
Posted 8/5/2015 4:09 AM (GMT 0)
Craymom,
I started using infrared sauna at a day spa, where the "detox program" was 37 minutes long. The first time I went, I didn't really start to sweat profusely until the last 12 minutes and I felt great afterwards. Next day was a little poorly, but nothing catastrophic. I've felt worse post chiro adjustment.

The only time I've had immediate serious herxing has been when I did massage or reflexology immediately followed by sauna--that was too much at one time.

I think it's similar to the detox baths: some people are very sensitive and need to build up slowly. Others can jump right in. My two cents worth 'cause I think people who have had issues are more likely to comment than those who have not had any problem.
Posted 8/5/2015 4:21 AM (GMT 0)
Gah, didn't answer your specific questions. Since I got my home sauna, I tend to do alternate days on the sauna and detox baths.

I have seen recommendations that one follow a sauna with a detox bath and I did this a couple of times, but you have to at least rinse off in the shower before you run the bath so you're dripping and shivering while the bath fills and frankly, I didn't notice any synergistic effects from doing them together.

I have done consecutive days in the sauna, especially in the winter time just because it felt so good to be really warm and it helped with joint and muscle aches that would worsen when I would get chilled.
Posted 8/7/2015 10:14 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks all for the input, I appreciate it very much!
Posted 8/7/2015 10:29 PM (GMT 0)
Have people used the portable saunas that are a few hundred dollars on Amazon?

I know that you get what you pay for, but even the one person saunas are about $1000. The local health club only uses a normal sauna.

Thanks,
Kim
Posted 8/7/2015 11:17 PM (GMT 0)
from everything I've read the portable sauna is great value. Not sure on the best brand, but I know I've come across threads about brand recommendations somewhere and people seem to speak highly of it.

I've thought of getting a portable fir sauna but for now am just doing dry sauna at the gym.
Posted 8/9/2015 12:32 AM (GMT 0)
There have been several members that used to post here that have used the portable saunas like you can get from Amazon - but you have to let them off gas - air out - outside for a while when you get them. You would have to do a search on the forum to find out what they have said about them specifically.
Posted 8/9/2015 6:32 PM (GMT 0)
I've been using the sauna regularly for 10 years now. I initially started using a Finnish-style sauna at the gym about 2 or 3 times a week and noticed I felt a lot better afterwards. I credit the sauna with keeping me functional for much longer than I would have otherwise been with untreated Lyme.

When I began using essential oils to treat Lyme I started having to use the sauna once per day or I would feel really toxic. My sauna use even spiked up to 3x a day for a few months during this period. I was working at the time and had a sauna in my condo building and I'd go first thing in the morning for 20 mins, another 20 mins at lunch, and then a longer session in the evening. This kept me decently functional during this massive detox period.

Protip: Wool shirts are super breathable as compared to cotton and putting one on post-sauna lets your body cool down much quicker. gizmodo.com/5917874/the-greatest-t-shirt-in-the-world

Somehow I got through that massive detox period and things settled down again. Right now I mostly use a cheapie $200 portable infrared sauna about 2x a week. It's not the nicest sauna experience in the world (this sauna is prob my most memorable: www.cntraveler.com/stories/2013-06-25/kulttuurisauna-sauna-spa-helsinki-finland ), but it gets the job done. I personally haven't found infrared saunas to be any more effective than traditional ones. I think that Lymies are typically dealing with ammonia toxicity which is readily excreted as sweat, so the deeper penetration of infrared waves doesn't make a huge difference.
Posted 8/9/2015 11:45 PM (GMT 0)
Project, I'm curious as to your essential oil usage. Could you share what your protocol is and are you using topically or ingesting?
Thanks!
Posted 8/10/2015 3:18 AM (GMT 0)
hi project, reading your signature am i correct in thinking youve never done abx, how close do you feel to 100%... So new to this, I seem to be curious about everything from saunas, to buhners, rife machines, cannibas oil etc.

ive been trying to read as much as i can on all of it, lol. If you find you have some time and want to respond, even briefly, i'd love to hear about your treatments for lyme and coinfections, have you been followed by a LLMD or LLND or taking it on yourself.

thanks
Posted 8/10/2015 4:23 AM (GMT 0)
I discovered essential oils through reading and self-experimentation. I initially was trying to take oil of Oregano orally. I did notice some die off symptoms but nothing dramatic. When I began trying topical application of different oils I started getting major die off herxes and symptom improvement. I settled on a combination of Thyme Thujanol and Lavender Fine oils diluted in Jojoba oil. I started with 1 drop of each and eventually increased to 12 drops of each by the end. I used this once a week for about 2 years and had steady symptom improvements every week. I had had serious visual issues, trailing afterimages behind moving objects. I had been convinced that this was just permanent brain damage and was very surprised when they started receding. After 2 years my visual issues were 99% gone and they haven't returned. A number of other symtoms improved significantly from essential oils alone: fatigue, brainfog, tendonitis and neck stiffness/pain.

Towards the end of this period the oils were giving me smaller herxes and less die off (measured by amount of sweat produced in the sauna) so I started experimenting with Cannabis oil. I used it for about 6 months. I found that it has very different characteristics than traditional essential oils. During this time I also used Nitrous Oxide based on this article: www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm. It definitely causes die off. Notice that I was slowly drifting towards the fun side of the treatment spectrum :)

For various reasons I decided to take a break from treatment at this time and I spent 6 months traveling around the world. My energy was quite good but I still needed to use the sauna daily during my travels which made hotel selection a bit challenging. I was able to make it work though. With no treatment other than minimal supplements I had not relapsed at all in any of my symptoms. Inexplicably at the end of this 6 month period my need to sauna daily went away and has since stabilized at twice a week. It's possible that taking time off to travel allowed some of my detox pathways/organs to come back online. Or maybe I just finally got through my detox backlog. Not quite sure to be honest.

After my travels I starting using some of the Cowden/Buhner herbs for 6 months focusing mainly on Bartonella/Babesia. I then tried a Rife machine and have been using it for about 2 months with great results. I'm also incorporating Cannabis oil and essential oils. I'm basically following Bryan Rosner's advice to rotate treatments rapidly towards the end to get the last 10-20%.

I had seen an LLMD at one point just to get a clinical diagnosis to accompany my test results but I have just really just treated myself and haven't taken any antibiotics. I'm probably about 85% recovered.

Based on my experience with the various treatments, I would say essential oils are a great starting point because they are so broad spectrum and they tend to balance your system and not kill off your good flora. They also have strong antifungal and antiviral activity which many of us are dealing with as well. They are known to break down biofilms and I suspect this is why I had such a great need to detox while I used them. Finally they seem to help your immune system to relearn how to keep things in check as I found when I completely stopped treatment for 6-8 months with no issues.

I'd recommend this book to anyone interested in learning more about them:
www.amazon.com/The-Healing-Intelligence-Essential-Oils/dp/1594774250/

Post Edited (project) : 8/9/2015 10:34:16 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/10/2015 4:38 AM (GMT 0)
thank you so much, i will definitely read that link on essential oils. I really appreciate your response and info so quickly. Its awesome to hear how far you have come.
Posted 8/10/2015 12:33 PM (GMT 0)
Project, thank you so much for your quick and detailed reply. Very helpful.
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