Band 41++++

I like what LymeMD blog has to say about it:

(I have only broke up the reply to make it easier for those with vision issues to read. No other alterations were made)

"The 41 band is non-specific. It is meaningless by itself. Haven't we all heard this. It cross reacts with other spirochetes. Maybe not. Early studies, with Allen Steere as a co-author, showed that the 41 band was the band that was most prevalent and showed


up earliest in the course of Lyme infection. The CDC considers it specific. It is one of only 3 IgM bands tested in their surveillance test. IgeneX considers it specific, it is marked with a double asterisk. I have reviewing the literature. Cross reactivity studies were done with syphilis. This does occur. How many syphilis


patients have I seen in suburban practice in the last 20 years? One. Syphilis is easy to rule out. What about other spriochetal diseases? Yes. It can cross react with leptospirosis, rat bite fever and relapsing fever. What did Steere have to say? These diseases can be ruled out by clinical presentations. Not out only


are these diseases very rare, but they cause a severe, sometimes life threatening illness which clinically looks nothing like Lyme. I am quoting a paper co-authored by Allen Steere, circa 1984. Current papers like to say that the 41band cross may reacts with dental spirochetes. Does the evidence support this?


The answer is no. The primary dental spirochete is Treponema denticola. It is present in patients with periodontal infections. It is not particularly antigenic since it is protected within biofilms. The DNA structure of this spirochete has been worked out. It is very different from Borrelia. The 41 band reacts to a flagellum


protein of Borrelia, the Lyme spirochete. The flagellum proteins of T. denticola are quite different from those of Borrelia. They are antigenically different. This was tough to find, but here it is: The WB or immunoblot bands that are specific for T. denticola flagelin proteints are: 38kd, 53kd and 72kd. In fact, the best known


dental spirochete does not react with the 41 band. Author after author continues to state that the Lyme 41 band may occur beause of cross reactivity with dental spirochetes. It is always qualified with the word "may." There is no evidence to support this theory. All are in agreement that the 41band is specific for


spirochetes. The other spirochetes known to cause this cross reaction can easily be ruled out! To quote Carl Sagan: "When all the likely causes of an effect have been ruled out, then that which remains, no matter how unlikely it appears, must be the


truth." You only have a 41 band. The only question which has to answered is: How do you explain its appearance if it not due to Lyme disease? "

(lymemd.blogspot.com/2008/09/all-i-got-was-41band.html)

Actually I just found out that band 41 can go positive from many different kinds of flagellated bacteria... Including Bartonella. 

If you have ++++ that means it is strongly reactive and you likely have multiple co-infections and viruses.  It's a level how strong the immune response is. 

Also it does cross over with other spirochetes, some viruses, and other flagellated bacteria including bartonella.  If you have for example just 41++ it actually doesn't necessarily mean you have lyme, you could have just bartonella for example.   

cd3764 said...
Interesting info exchanged here!

How might one explain a +++ IGg response for band 41 and no response for any other bands....yet CDC/Igenex positive for Lyme IgM bands?

I am CDC positive on IgM too and then only igenex positive on IgG. The IgG being 41+++ and 39+ and 28+.

I also got the bull-eye rash in 2003. How IgG is not cdc positive is beyond me.

Some people I chatted with who had bartonella only had just band 41. Having band 41 alone doesn't mean you have lyme.

Toby was also IgM positive with CDC, but IgG was negative. What's interesting to me is that the Intel doctor wrote on his report that my husband appeared to have a past Lyme infection. Why would he write that if the IgG was CDC negative. I guess he believed the Igenex results as positive.

Cat53 said...
To quote Carl Sagan: "When all the likely causes of an effect have been ruled out, then that which remains, no matter how unlikely it appears, must be the truth ". I guess that didn't apply to Toby since the neurologist tested and ruled out other causes of his symptoms. There isn't really a definitive test for ALS so they test to rule out other possibilities. Of course, the Lyme test came back negative that his doctor ordered so that was ruled out. Even though ALS is not very common, she saw it as "the truth"....a disease in itself, not symptomatic of another cause. The only truth lies in the symptoms....but they are symptoms of Lyme.

- I so agree with so much of what you said here, Cat! And you have my deepest sympathies. Hopefully now that you know, you can intervene for his health's sake and he will recover. <3

Thank you Trav. I think staying positive is really important. Even though it's one of the worst diagnoses, knowing that Lyme is curable really helps. We just need to stay focused and find the proper way(s) to treat his illness. I believe we can get through this. I am not one to ever give up.

Cat, it's more than obvious your love for Toby as well as your refusal to just give up. You've been a member here for 3 years!! I know that you will help Toby feel better.


Oh, SailorKim! I'm so sorry to hear that you too have such a bad experience with those darned nerve tests!! I swore I'd never have another one too!! If they want to see that, they are going to have to dope me up pretty good and do it against my will!! My nerves burned and were super 'jumpy' for 3 days after one of those tests!!