Can Herx Reaction last over a month?

Hi Friends,

I began taking Beyond Balance BB-1 drops on July 16th with one drop twice/day and worked up to 12 drops twice/day but had to cut back due to the herxing. It's Aug 21st and I'm down to about 7 drops twice/day and still herxing, especially after taking the BB-1. By herxing I mean that my heartbeats become irregular and fast, I feel imbalance while standing and walking (however, ok sitting or driving), I perspire heavily at times and just get that Lymie inflamed feeling in my head. My blood pressure which is normally about 110/60 has been fluctuating from 85/50 to 125/70 especially in the evening. It's pretty predictable that it's going to happen after I take the drops and it is always worse in the evening lasting up to 4 hours. My detoxing consists of Parsley, Burbur, Pinella and Turmeric (not all together).

I should mention that my previous doctor recommended switching from Samento and Banderol that I was taking, to the BB-1 drops because I was having chest pains, shortness of breath and strong heart palpitations. So I guess the palpitations would not be part of the herx reaction. Again, the palpitations are worse in the evening beginning after dinner which I eat early (530pm-ish), regardless of whether I eat gluten-free, very light, sugar or no sugar. Thinking it could be something I'm eating, I've tried eliminating different things from my diet at night but there's no change.

At this point, I'm wondering if I may be taking the wrong herbs (i.e.,treating the wrong kind of bacteria). From everything I've read in this forum and other Lyme information websites, I may have Babesia and would perhaps benefit from a different protocol. The heart racing isn't painful but it's a bit frightening. I've never heard of herxing for that many weeks. Anyone else?

I will be seeing a different doctor in a few weeks (not LLMD per say, but Lyme-friendly and well-informed). Can anyone recommend any specific tests that I should ask for? I've had the CD-57 and the Elisa, MTHF and Western Blot, but this was almost a year ago while on abx.

Thanks for your feedback!

I agree with Girlie.

And, I share your speculation that another infection might be coming into play. I got to pretty much that same point last month and have been slowly titrating Buhner's recommended herbs for Babesia.

My research has shown that some of us can have symptomatic infections that impede healing from Lyme.

That said, what's the deal with the mycoplasma result you shared? Did your LLMD consider you positive? (sorry, I don't know anything about mycoplasma testing).

If you do indeed have mycoplasma, that, too, can impede overall healing if not treated.

Without a doubt, I hope you'll consider increasing your detox....and continue to increase it.

Here's a link to a recent thread on the topic to help you appreciate why we need to detox:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3477137

And, here's a link to a site with lots of great detox suggestions:

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

Detoxing is key to minimizing herxes.

Truly, you should have stopped treatment as soon as you started to herx and then increased detox until the herx passed.

Then, it would be appropriate to back down on the dose of whatever you were taking. If you still herx at that new dose, stop and increase detox.

Keep doing that until you can find a dose that doesn't make you herx....and stay on it for 4-7 days before trying to increase. Wash, rinse, repeat until you get to the ultimate dose.

One thing that can help you right now (and should be incorporated into your detox protocol) would be the addition of a binder....such as activated charcoal, cilantro/chlorella, zeolite or bentonite clay.

The stuff you are taking gets toxins out of tissues and into the bloodstream - you need to be taking something to get them out of your body and that's when binders are appropriate.

Without a doubt, taking liver support supplements is very important since the liver is one of the major detoxification organs.

Yep, we preach detox on here a lot. Why? Because it helps tremendously.

Hope you feel better soon!

Oh, such great information from you both - Girlie and cd3764 - thank you!

You know, when I first started herbals last year I remember my doc telling me that if I herxed badly to cut back the dosage or even stop and build back up, but somehow that completely escaped my memory this time when starting with BB-1. I've just had it in my mind to build up to 30 drops 2xday and I was to start with 1 drop and increase by a drop every other day. But recently on another thread post regarding the BB-1 drops it was recommended to me to cut the dosage back which is what I did. Still, I didn't think to completely stop them for a few days. It makes sense...I guess I'm thinking that they're like abx and you can't stop and start, but they're not.

Regarding detox - when I started the new herbs I timed it to be at the beginning of a 3 week "stay"cation and I was doing those wonderful detox baths that are recommended in the forum almost every day. But then I had to go back to work and it just hasn't been practical. Thinking I should at least try doing a foot detox.

Girlie, Re: Milk Thistle - I just began incorporating that into my regimen about 3 days ago - thanks for that advice. The drops have a nasty taste, so I'm putting about 20 drops in a capsule about twice/day...does that sound about right, or too little/much?
Re: Exercise - mostly walking - I do about a 2 mile walk almost daily. Had started doing more aerobic type exercises but was told here that it wasn't a good idea - better to keep it light and not add that stress to the body. I'm doing some lo-impact toning now, too.
Re: Water - yes, drinking lots of water.... I will add lemon sometimes, thanks!

I also blend a fresh smoothie each morning with fresh/organic ingredients - ginger, parsley, dandelion, spinach, apples, bananas, yogurt. I take flax seed oil and fish oil, eat almonds and take Magnesium and B12 supplements. Also take Propolis and Fish Oil when I remember (it's endless, isn't it?)

CD3764: Re the Micoplasma Pneumoniae test, I don't remember having any significant discussion about that, but it does say on the results that a positive result does not differentiate between an active or past infection. I just know that she wasn't concerned with that result.

Re: the links - thanks - I'm going to go through those and read them. And re; the Bentonite Clay and cilantro, etc.... ok - will definitely incorporate that, too - I didn't know what role each of these detoxing products have in eliminating the toxins so this is great information and I'll read more on it. I have charcoal and Bentonite clay at home already

Re: new testing - I wasn't sure, since I see so many in the forum with specific positive results for Babesiosis, Bartonella, etc. and the Igenex Lab results...I was thinking I should be finding more specific information about the bacteria. But in the end, it probably wouldn't change the treatment...I imagine the new doc will want to treat according to my symptoms.

Thanks again so much for your responses - it really helps.

Even with antibiotics, we cut back when we herx. I read that when taking two antibiotics that the resistance doesn't happen. Also, we do end up switching to other antibiotics along the way.

Regarding the milk thistle dose - I don't know how much you should be taking - as I don't know how the strength of your liquid formula compares with my capsules. My LLND has me also taking a homeopathic liver support by Pekana in addition to my milk thistle.
Without the advice of a Dr., i would take what is on the bottle.

You do not want to overdo the exercise - not training for a marathon - just keeping the body healthy - keep lymphatics moving...(flushing out toxins), keep the muscles from atrophying, etc.

When drinking water with lemon, use a straw...you don't want the lemon to damage your teeth.

"I also blend a fresh smoothie each morning with fresh/organic ingredients - ginger, parsley, dandelion, spinach, apples, bananas, yogurt. I take flax seed oil and fish oil, eat almonds and take Magnesium and B12 supplements. Also take Propolis and Fish Oil when I remember (it's endless, isn't it?)"

That smoothie is really good for you to do each morning. Also, the omega's - very good...

Keep it up...you're doing great!

I herxed for three weeks straight, so it depends on the body's ability to detox and the level of toxins that a person is dealing with. While I agree that Itsnotjustlyme's thoughts are the ideal, it's not possible for many of us to keep it to just a few days.

Even when treating a second time around last summer and I knew what I was doing, I still herxed for 3 weeks. I believe it's likely due to gene mutations that I may have though.

Traveler - wow, you herxed for 12 months straight on abx?! Knowing then what you know now, your system probably could have handled them much better. I'm sorry you didn't have a good support group like this forum to help you through it then :-(

I'm going to try the foot detox baths for sure.

So Girlie, it sounds like you've been going through a very rough time lately, I'm sorry. I looked up Rifampin and it sounds like a very powerful antibiotic. What the body must go through with all of these different treatments!

So, it's finally soaking in - the detoxing is the key to be able to get through any successful treatment. The aim is to kill the nasty Lyme bacteria and then help your body expedite the departure of the dead bacteria so they don't have time to create too much havoc in your system, right?

Wouldn't it be easier if we could just see what's happening inside these bodies of ours?! I guess we really have to tune in to our bodies and adapt to how it reacts to different treatments.

Lyme is so crazy - every time you get one symptom somewhat under control, another one pops up that's totally unrelated to the last! I guess that's why doctors think we're delusional or hypochondriacs.

I "try" to understand the general lack of education and understanding for detecting and treating Lyme, but I find it so hard to swallow the fact that we can have our puppies vaccinated against Lyme Disease, have our dogs tested each year, but humans cannot get a similar vaccine?! It kind of makes me want to go to my veterinarian for treatment, lol.

Sorry, went off on a totally different subject there. That's for another thread, another time.

Thanks again, guys.

Thanks, Traveler

Hopefully you know I was joking about going to the vet to be treated, lol! But I didn't know that the vaccine was once for use on humans and that it had a 30 percent risk of severe arthritis, yikes. I'm glad my dogs never got this vaccine. No dogs at home now (my 15 year old sweetie died last year), but I'll remember this in case we adopt another!

CD, - those links were very helpful, thanks. It's good to have that reference material because my brain retains so little of it when I read it once...of course I could say the same before I had Lyme, ha ha!

Now I just need to get a consistent rhythm going to juggle the herbal antimicrobials, the detox herbs and the detox binders (which thanks to Trav I know must be taken at least 2hrs from food and other supps).

Thanks again

Hi All,
I just wanted to write a follow-up and a note of thanks to all of the good input I got from you on this thread. I cut back on the MC BB-1 herbal drops from Beyond Balance down to 2 drops/BID, detoxed a little more often and it made a world of difference! The heart racing/palpitations did not go away when I cut back, however.

I saw a new LLMD 5 days ago and was very pleased with my first impressions. While there, he had his nurse administer an injection of Magnesium and Vitamin B12 to see if that would help with the heart arrhythmia. When I got home I began feeling like I was herxing - that Lymey feeling (I call it that) with imbalance and fatigue, but the next day I was fine and I haven't had any palpitations since. I've also started back on Doxycycline.

I've developed a new and strange symptom in the last few days - an internal buzzing-like vibration in my lower abdomen. I keep thinking someone is trying to reach me on my cellphone and I have it on "vibrate", but I'm not carrying my cellphone! It even stops and starts intermittently in a pattern like a phone would.

Anyway, I was reassured to see that others have experienced similar "vibes" and although we don't have an explanation, at least it's not painful or too bothersome, at least not for me. Curiously enough, my husband said he gets these, too and doesn't have Lyme disease (that we know of!).

Doc ordered a whole array of blood work and I'll be seeing him again in a few weeks. He also started me on homeopathic nosodes by DesBio, the Bartonella-Babesia formula which I began today. Taking only 1/2 vial every 3 days for a month.

Ok, just letting you all know that the herxing really subsided after following your advice!

Thanks!!

Yay!!! I'm so glad that things have calmed down for you, KeyLyme!! Congrats!!

I hope your healing continues!!!