Betaine HCl w/ pepsin

My lamelymebrain can't find the previous thread I started on HCl but wanted to provide an update:

As digestive issues crept back up I had started seeing a nutritionist in my ND's office a couple of months ago. He determined my pancreas was not producing bile, which would trigger my stomach to produce acids to help digest food. He feels some of the thyroid and adrenal issues I've had are also tied to the problems with digestion.

He started me on betaine HCl w/ pepsin—strong stuff. 4 capsules per meal, and a few other supplements to help digest fat and Beta-TCP, Litrovit… and some hormonal support. He also made a few adjustments to my diet.

After the first day on the program I developed some of the worst migraines I've ever had… about 4 days in, I finally decided it was something he had given me and stopped taking everything. I slowly reintroduced everything but eventually, I was on one HC per day and still had the headache. Something else he had given me was causing nausea but haven't figured that out yet.

So, I pinpointed the migraines on the HCl. Looked up everything I could on the inter webs and found that others had the same reaction—but no reason why. My nutritionist declared that he had no other patients with this issue—and I was either making it up or had a defective product……..

Luckily, the manufacturer "PURE ENCAPSUALTIONS" emailed me and inquired about my experience with the product. In retrospect they are fishing for positive reviews but I think they're also probably trying to proactively address this very problem that I had with the product, so good for them (and me).

I explained my issue and received a great response about the product. It was as I had suspected—likely yeast/fungal or bacteria die off and herxing!!! I am very very excited that this suggests I should be able to continue taking it and that it has to be pretty effective with whatever is going on in my stomach. NOTHING else I've done or taken has given me such direct results (and I'm on high doses of anti-fungals). Plus, I don't have to waste this huge jar I bought.

Here is the response I received:

"DOSE: Betaine HCL should always be taken at the end of a meal, often starting with just one cap. As you titrate up once cap at a time during a larger meal, should you experience any 'burning', you have exceeded your dose. Simply return back to the previous dose and hold at that level. Betaine HCL is not something people are typically allergic to, but they may have H. Pylori, which is a bacteria that causes gastric ulcers. Some people will use just a 1/2 cap and build up. You can test this through a 'breath test' (gold standard) or a stool test (not a good, but some HMO's will only do stool as they do not own the equipment for a breath test. Lab Corp offer's the testing, and you may be able to buy the testing online and go to your local lab without a doctors order.

SYMPTOMS: Betaine HCL detoxes your body by killing off parasites and bacteria such as yeast, fungus, mold, candida, it is possible you are experiencing a 'die off' effect (headaches coming from toxins produced by killing off bacteria). This is good, you just need to do it more slowly. Digestion of proteins in not the only reason to use Betaine HCL. It is to provide you this protection from the bacteria taking hold (candida, yeast, mold, parasites). Testing and determining the reaction is important. With a reaction as yours, I would strongly suggest that you do testing to insure you do not have an overgrowth of bacteria, first.

Your practitioner should issue you a gut infection test and rule out H. Pylori (which a medical doctor can also do). If you do not have extreme burning in your stomach, you may not have H Pylori. You may have some form of 'gut infection' as mentioned (candida, yeast, mold, parasites) -- likely. If that is the case, the practitioner should recommend treatment to kill off these organisms. Metametrix is one lab we use. Talk to your practitioner. There are both pharmaceutical drugs and herbs/ botanicals' that treat the overgrowth. There are many on the market. Testing before and after treatment is recommended to prove you are using the right product. The testing I mentioned also includes which botanticals and drugs your particular bacteria will response to and which they will not! The infections come from producing low stomach acid which is why Betaine HCL is recommended -- hence, the solution is to a.) treat the infection as mentioned first, b.) begin very low dosing and increase the Betaine HCL to prevent future infections. You may only be able to handle 1/2 cap at larger meals every other day to prevent headaches (slow down the die off). If you are following me, the problem isn't the Betaine HCL. It is what the Betaine is doing that indicates a deeper problem that needs to be addressed.

If you are asking how did I get such an infection, the answer is low stomach acid. The causes of low stomach acid are: 1) Blood Type A, 2) Over 40 years old, 3) Taking antacids like prevacid which allow the bacteria to survive.

A licensed practitioner, or nutritionist should be well versed in how to diagnose or refer you for a proper evaluation. MD's do not generally treat parasites, bacteria, mold or candida. They can evaluate H Pylori - where the symptoms are 'burning' when eating acidic foods or taking Betaine HCL causing ulcers. We use Betaine HCL to rule out testing for H. Pylori -- and if a patient is notproducing symptoms of burning, move forward and assist the client in 'detoxing' the bacterial infections (by killing off parasites and bacteria such as yeast, fungus, mold, candida) and slowly increasing the use of Betaine HCL to prevent future infections from developing.

Betaine HCL kills bacteria. Plain and simple. Your headaches may be a 'die off' -- the bacteria dies and produces a toxin until it is eliminated. Colonics and enemas get the toxins out of the body fast, but you should be working with your practitioner to set up a program that will be comfortable and effective."

Hope this also helps others—
-p

My LLMD wants me to do the Beltaine challenge. Where you take the beltaine pill 5-15 minutes before a protein meal and wait to see if you feel anything. I see in your post it says to take the beltaine after the meal. I've only tried it twice and I'm not entirely symptom free after I take it but it's not exactly the burning sensation they told me to look for. My LLMD wants to make sure I'm absorbing the medication and nutrients properly. I really wish there was a better way instead of trying to induce heart burn.

Just to clarify, taking Betaine can alleviate a Betaine deficiency and allow the methylation pathway to function more effectively. As it functions more efficiently, the immune system is able to remove the pathogens that are present and the metals that block the pathways. Both the metals and the pathogens must be removed for the pathways to function more efficiently. If the pathogens aren't removed or metals are reintroduced, then the pathway will falter again.

Pirouette,

This is one of the best threads that i have seen for a long time! Excellent! Excellent!

I realize that we should always be cautious with manufacturer's explanations, but in this case, the explanation is absolutely correct. The problem is that we can become overly cautious and even paralyzed to the point of inaction! We need to cultivate the capabilities of discernment and verification.

I would add a thought to what you have already said. There is one issue that has not been addressed. Many people have stomachs with destroyed stomach lining (mucosa) and are sensitive to many things, including HCL. I used to have severe stomach ulcers AND low HCL production. If I ate even a mildly spicy meal, I usually ended up vomiting my entire stomach contents about 20-30 minutes later. We hired the services of a nutritionest and he coaxed my stomach back to normalcy and health. First he prescribed a product to take about 20-30 minutes BEFORE a meal to coat my stomach. Then I ate the meal. Then I took his prescribed HCL product along with a digestive aid about 30-45 minutes AFTER the meal. I had no gastrointestinal distress with this method. A person with the type of disturbed stomach that I had will vomit every time if they have normal amounts of HCL in their stomach. The secret is to coat the stomach first. The product that I used was called "Gastrex" by Standard Process Labs. Whereas I always passed a lot of undigested food in my stool, that ended after I used the Gastrex and HCL.

The need to take the Gastrex and HCL diminished as other health issues that were being treated went away, as Georgia Hunter has suggested.

Don

itsnotjustlyme,

The nutritionist told us that there is a reason why to take the betaine HCL AFTER the meal and not BEFORE. As you eat the meal your body "decides" how much HCL to produce. Since, in my case, it was "deciding" to produce inadequate amounts probably because of damage to the stomach lining, it was necessary to add HCL after the meal to bring it up to sufficient levels to digest that meal. If I with a damaged stomach would have used your method, then I would still have had an insufficient level of HCL to digest my meal. The damaged receptors in my stomach would have erroneously "decided" that the HCL supplementation was in itself enough to digest the meal, without producing any of its own. This underproduction of HCL is probably an innate protection mechanism to protect a vulnerable stomach that has been stripped of its mucosal layer, and protects the stomach from digesting itself. However, I circumvented that protection mechanism of producing lower smounts of HCL by coating my stomach, and supplementing the HCL AFTER the meal. At any rate it worked well for me. My experience may not be your experience!

Also I eroneously said that I took the digestive aid AFTER the meal. I took it early in the meal to help digest the vegetables as you have stated. That way when i added in the HCL later, it didn't intefere with the predigestion of the vegetables.

Don

Post Edited (Heathersdad) : 2/13/2015 12:22:03 AM (GMT-7)

HI,

I have/had Candida and have been on a high protein meals for about 2 1/2 months now. the high protein is very hard for me to digest and my digestive symptoms are getting worse. I have read how to slowly increase the amount of HCL to reach the best dose. I am up to 2,275 mg with each meal. In the below article it says that most people with low stomach acid need between 3250-4550mg per meal.

http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/how-to-supplement-with-betaine-hcl-for-low-stomach-acid/

So far it has helped some digestive issues, but not all of them. I have had NO burning yet, but am waiting. I have been taking it with meals up until now, but reading the above thread I think I will start taking it 30 minutes after.

Maybe someone can fix my link above.

I know this post is older but thank you everyone for your posts.
How is the original poster doing? Hope you're doing well.

Thanks again

Patty,

Hello and welcome! Thank you for bumping this old post. I had not seen this before. This is very helpful post. I have been using Orthomolecular Digestzymes for years since I first saw a Functional MD. It contains 300mg Betaine Hydrochloride along with various digestive enzymes. The directions say to take before a meal. Sometimes I forget and take after.

Before I saw the Functional MD, I saw a chiropractor for a few months who did functional medicine. She had me taking Standard Process Betaine HCl tablets, but I think I took them before or during the meal.

I may try to get a stand-alone Betaine HCl product to take after meals and see what happens.

The old posts on this forum were really good. Glad they’re still around in the archives.🤗