A question that is kinda "out there"

well, here is a question i have been pondering for quite sometime. since lyme causes a major immune response within the body, is it possible that lyme can activate certain genes to cause problems too??

I am referring to those people who have autoimmune diseases due to gene mutations.

for example, my dad has been fine all of his life. 2 years ago he ended up with this weird circular rash on his arm. not a bull's eye, but a perfectly circular red rash. he asked me about it, i showed my LLMD, she confirmed it wasn't a bull's eye, but it has always been in the back of my mind - what the heck was it?

so at the age of 78, he has been diagnosed with polycythemia vera - which is caused by a mutated gene.

does anyone know if it is at all possible that lyme can "activate" mutated genes? Bc he has had this gene all of his life, obviously, so why would it all of a sudden start causing problems now (he is producing too many RBC). his other symptoms include tinnitus, weakness in the legs, itchiness after coming out of the shower (sound all too familiar?), severely dry and cracked skin on his hands, dizziness. And when his blood test was showing the high RBC count, this rash reappeared on his arm again. freaky. I have looked up rashes related to PCV, but none of them look at all like my dad's rash.

also, a friend of mine was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, spondylitis, iritis, etc....(she is only 40) and she was tested positive for the HLaB26 gene (and of her issues began right after she gave birth to her third child).

my dad is on long island and has a house in PA
my friend used to visit her brother in CT all of the time

am i crazy or could i be onto something here, at least maybe with my dad? I have researched and researched, but can't find anything on this, so i figured i would throw it out on the forum anyway to see if anyone has come across this idea.

thanks!

Post Edited (Chapelle) : 1/31/2016 9:52:10 PM (GMT-7)

The genes you have when you die are the same genes you have when you were born. The major difference is that some of those genes may be turned off and some may be turned on. Our body has an unbelievable way of adapting to our surroundings to continue on in life. The modification of gene function due to alteration of gene expression and how they relate to cellular functioning is called epigenetics.

This relates to we Lyme patients because as our pathogen levels increase, our acid level increases, our buffering agents decrease, our polyamines decrease, our polyvalent cations decrease, and we become deficient in the substrates and catalysts that some of our biological compounds utilize to function properly. An imbalance occurs and our body compensates by switching on genes or switching off genes. This allows us to continue to live although we may suffer. Our MTHFR, MTR, and even CBS mutations are sometimes switched off because of our infectious state. Some have them switched off from birth, but many of us have our genes altered because of our infections. Our body is trying to do its best to keep us healthy but because we don't have enough substrates (Cu, Mg), our body changes the genes so alternate pathways can function. It's a self preservation system and although we may not like it, it's the best the body can do. This is why we crave certain foods. Our body is telling us we need something replenished.

In a related note, we age because of a similar process. DNA from pathogens is incorporated into our genome and DNA transcription and translation is less effective. Free radicals (often from failed cellular processing) create damage to cellular function and the body compensates the best it can. Aging is simply a reduction in cellular processing efficiency due to many factors. So in essence, Lyme ages us tremendously.

I understand all of what you said Gkmom - just didn't know if it was "out there" to wonder if lyme disease could turn a quiet gene "on", that's all.

i am familiar with gene issues bc although i have 3 healthy kids, i had 5 miscarriages, all due to chromosomal abnormalities. my hubby and I do plan to investigate this further eventually bc it is very weird this happened to me - nobody else in the famiy had issues like this, but also, nobody in the family tried to have kids as many times as we did. the miscarriages though, had nothing to do with lyme bc i wasn't sick until a few years after i gave birth to my last child.

Sorry, this got so long I fell asleep. I thought I would split it into two parts for easier reading.

The second part that most people don't know is while that some genes are all or nothing like eye color, sickle cell and hemophillia, others can affect your bodies at varying degrees. It's called gene expression. Lots of things affect gene expression. Especially environment, diet, stress. Basically anything and everything.

The easiest example to under stand is calico (or tortoise shell) colored cats. I always wondered why a cat could have that many colors. So when we look at human genes, we are taught that DNA is a strand like a ladder. Each step is made up of two parts or two copies of the same gene. Together the pair determines certain characteristics or a group of pairs determines characteristics. There are really few single gene characteristics (notably, eye color, earlobe attachment, sickle cell, etc).

When studying genetics someone found that in calico cats there are really three choices: white, black and orange. It was also found that as expected every cell in the body has the same DNA. So why are some hairs on the cat white or black or orange or all three colors. All three colors can actually show up on the same strand of hair. My dog has that where near her body the hair is one color and further along the color changes.

This happens due to gene expression. Gene expression is how much a certain gene (or mutation) shows up across a number of cells. So in one area of a calico cat the genes may only express the white version which is why you get white patches. Another may be all black or all orange. Then you get mixed areas and one strand of hair that expresses all three colors on the same strand.

How and what genes change our appearance or function are dependent on their environment. But environment ranges from what we normally consider environment (air, sun, heat, etc) to the specific environment a single cell (and therefore a single strand of DNA) feels. So it includes things like the age of the cell, stress a single cell might feel, if our bodies are more or less acidic. Those environmental factors change over time and it explains why our bodies change over time.

An example in people would be hair on our bodies. The amount of hair on our bodies and where it is are based on not just our genes but actually our hormones as well (environment). So my son's hairy chest is dependent on the genes he inherited from both my husband and myself, but he wasn't born with a hairy chest. The hairy chest didn't come until puberty. Why? well in puberty our body starts to produce sex hormones and that tells certain skin cells to grow hair.

Giving artificial hormones can change the timing and the actual way in which the cells work. Steroids make men's muscles bulk up but can also cause them to develop breasts. A woman whose body produces too much testosterone may have more hair on her body and a deeper voice. Men and women all have both estrogen and testosterone. We need both for our bodies too work but too much either way changes how our bodies develop.

There is a third thing and that is there are control genes that turn certain functions on and off. The easiest way to see it is by looking at how fetuses form. They don't just become tiny humans as soon as the egg and sperm get together. Over time arms, legs, eyes, fingers, toes, heart, lungs, etc are formed as certain control genes turn other genes on and off. This is why even though all our cells have the same DNA some become hair, skin, organs, etc.

Science is still trying to figure out who(?) and where the control genes are. There are also mutations handed down that only express themselves later in life. One example is Huntington's disease (I think that's the one). If I recall correctly, it may be related to memory. But the point is that it never shows up until you are in your 50s and if you have even one copy of the gene you will develop it. Now that we know more about genes, some people who have a parent with Huntington's choose not to have children.

So your Dad's condition could be due to any of the above. It could be genetic but not turned on until a certain age range, but if he was bit by a tick that could have changed his "environment."

Another thing to remember, is that a very small number of people have any kind of a rash with a tick bite (I think the number is like 30%). Even among those people, few have an actual bulls eye rash.

So the propaganda we hear and read about watching for a bulls eye rash is just that propaganda. You can get bit by a tick, get no rash and still have Lyme. People just need to be informed, especially since many doctors don't know the facts. They are told the same thing we are - it's hard to get, easy to treat and can't persist in the body. This community is a testament to the fact that all three of those statements are false.

I hope this helps in some small way. I hope I stated everything clearly.

Have a good day, Kim

I just reread my post to my sure it was coherent. I had to laugh because I wrote "If I recall correctly, it may be related to memory" when talking about Huntington's.

With your Dad I would sit down and figure out what new aches and pains and changes have happened since the rash.

I am sure that my son has Lyme (we are waiting on the bloodwork), but he doesn't have pain now and that's my biggest symptom. He does however have rages, insomnia and anxiety. We started Jernigan's Antitox II and that all went away. Then he made a comment to me about him being able to remember what was taught in his drum lessons now. He said before (the current teacher) he would forget what he learned by the time we got home. Now (with the new teacher) he remembers everything. Based on the timing it could be the Antitox instead of the teacher. I'm leaning towards the Antitox.

Point being, I didn't know that he was having memory issues. Of course, compared to me he could be in Mensa but people don't always communicate the things that might be symptoms. For a very long time I thought many of my symptoms were normal. I always remember them being there, but once I got on here I found out that many of them weren't normal.

If you talk your dad into taking the test do you have a doc that will sign the order? If not, there is away around it that I have mentioned to others. It is legit and the test will be run through Igenex. Only thing is there is a markup on the test, but I don't think it's more than the cost of a doctors appointment. The company is True Health Labs. I'm assuming that you are in the US which could be a bad assumption. The company really just facilitates the testing. They don't actually do the tests. They sign the order and then send you the results. All the tests are run through specific companies like Igenex. One thing I like is that it keeps the results out of my medical records. I have enough strikes against me.

Have a good day,
Kim

Chap, one of the end products of the methylation pathway is pryrimidines and Purines which are used to make DNA. If you don't methylate properly, you may have problems with conceiving or carrying to term.

Post Edited (Georgia Hunter) : 2/2/2016 2:34:09 AM (GMT-7)

Here's a link that explains some of the things that can interfere with methylation along with brief commentary about methylation's effects on pregnancy:

drhyman.com/blog/2011/02/08/maximizing-methylation-the-key-to-healthy-aging-2/

Many of us have genetic mutations (MTHFR, for example) that interfere with methylation.

I'm hetero C677T and take methylated B vitamins and methyl folate. I remember being prescribed folic acid during my pregnancies to supposedly prevent neural tube defects....it was all a waste - my body couldn't process folic acid - it needs methyl folate.

Check out
Raodback.Org

Autoimmunity is caused by infectious agents for example lyme\mycoplasma.

PeteZa, you are absolutely right about all calicos being male. Your comment made me laugh. I had forgotten that tidbit. Genetics was a long time ago.

Chapelle, I am so sorry that you had to go through 5 miscarriages. Thank heaven you have three healthy kids. One thing I remember is that many of the trisomys (Turner's is also a trisomy but it is an extra sex chromosome) occur when either are both parents are older. Same with Down's (also a trisomy). My recollection is that it occurs when either the sperm or the egg retains both strands of the DNA.

Makes you think there should be more research into what goes wrong that causes the cells to divide improperly. cd's link may provide some clues.

Luckily science is advancing so maybe when our kids are ready to have kids have kids this won't be as much of an issue. As I typed this I realized my daughter was 23 and could have children anytime.

Of course, when she was in middle school (and forever onward) I told her that under no circumstances was she to make me a grandmother before she was 25. Until a few months ago, I didn't think it was going to be an issue. On Monday she put her boyfriend on a plane to Denmark. He's an international college program student (in the Disney program). She was so upset. She said she didn't think it would be that hard. Unfortunately, life works that way. I'm sad for her but I'm more concerned about her possibly deciding to move to Denmark.

We deal with what we must.

I hope your Dad is doing better. If you have to, tell him he needs to do the test for you. Stress makes life harder and you need worry about that off your plate.

I hope you have a good day,
Kim

happyjo said...
So GH-How do you gauge the body's need for iodine?

I'm in relatively good shape health wise although I'm not close to where I was before dealing with vector borne diseases. I may use changes in my mood, sleep patterns, weight changes, libido, or little things like joints popping as indicators to changes in my physiology. For me, iodine improves mood, libido, sleep patterns, and decreases joint popping. I don't take it daily but probably should. I look for improvements or changes to whatever supplements I take. If I can determine a change, I'll research what may have happened physiologically. I can often find what the supplement is doing to cause the change or improvement.