IV antibiotics vs PO antibiotics vs Herbs Advice

Hey all!

So I have been sick since 2011, finally got my lyme diagnosis 12/31/14 and immediately started treatment with 3 different oral antibiotics. I was on them through March when I decided I couldn't take it anymore. My Herxing was unbearable. I had to stop working and my weakness and fatigue were so debilitating my husband had to literally help me shower. I lost 20 pounds in 2 months and was constantly nausea and throwing up. It was the worst 4 months of my life.

The main reason I decided to stop however was because I got married in August 2015. I didn't want to look or feel sick on our wedding day. Plus, we hiked the inka trail for our honeymoon and I knew I would need to be in my best health to make it and enjoy it. So, my dr agreed and I told her I would do whatever she wanted after the wedding and honeymoon.

In the meantime we switched me to chinese herbs and a ton of supportive supplements. I still herx if I try it increase my dosage, but nothing like antibiotics.
Despite how awful I felt on antibiotics, I'm now at the point where I don't think I can handily this daily struggle much longer. I'm 29 and I literally take 40 pills twice a day (not including shakes and tinctures) and there's always some reason I need to add more. I trust and respect my current LLMD. She is very smart, really cares about her pts and is always up to date on the latest research. Only downfall, she doesn't do IV antibiotics.

I've been in treatment for just over a year and I don't feel any better. In fact, I feel worse. I am at the point that I just want to do the most aggressive treatment (no matter how awful it makes me feel), that will take the least amount of time and get my the best results. If I have to take a leave from work and take a loan out to support myself through this time I will. I just need to be done with it all. If there isn't such a treatment like the one I want, then I don't want to do anything.

So, I would love some advice and insight to the pros and cons of IV Antibiotics vs PO Antibiotics vs Herbs from whoever is willing to share their experiences with me. There is way too much information out there to sift through and on this site at least we're all in it together.

I need to make a decision about getting a second opinion and I need to start advocating for myself as a patient and making sure I get the best treatment for me.

Thanks is advance and happy new week :)

I hiked up Diamondhead in December of 2015. I did it with two walking sticks and slower than the 80 year old grandmothers that passed me by, but I did it and it was wonderful. I also had someone, who also passed me but stopped to talk to find out why I was making the climb with two walking sticks, take my picture at the very top of a very steep staircase. She never offered me the picture but I'm sure she pulls it out overtime one of her kids says something is too hard. LOL.

I also stopped some treatments and instead used meds to suppress the immune system. PSA, at no time is it recommended that people with Lyme take immune suppressors. They can do very, very bad things to our bodies. It is completely contraindicated. However, I'm an adult and I made my own decisions knowingly. But just don't do what I did. It's a really bad idea. (Sounds like what I keep saying to my 16 yr old who is learning to drive. LOL)

As silly sheep said, if you are not detoxing that could explain a lot. Once the herbs kill off some of the bugs, they give off toxins and are dumped into our blood stream for the liver or kidneys to filter out. If there are too many or the liver/kidneys are compromised, then they just end up being absorbed back into our cells. Our immune system also attempts to get rid of them (it reacts to even dead ones) which is likely why we herx. If you aren't detoxing, go look at the "New to Lyme?" thread to look into detoxing. Another site is tiredoflyme.com. She has a whole big list.

So taking a more aggressive treatment won't help. There is a limit to how much our bodies can clear even using all the detox methods. The method you use for treatment doesn't change that. Whether the dead bugs are caused by oral antibiotics, IV antibiotics or herbs they are still dead bugs that need to be clear.

One thing you haven't mentioned is co-infections. If you have been treating just Lyme and have gotten it down to a much lower bacterial load, it is possible that what you are seeing is one of the co-infections. Each co-infection is killed off by different antibiotics and different herbs, although there is some overlap.

I would sit down and make a list of everything you are taking and why you are taking it. Then bounce that list against what the herb/antibiotic is supposed to do. Burner's books are really good at describing how each herb functions. I would also look at the symptom list to see if what you are experiencing is Lyme or a co-infections.

As far as you still herxing on herbs, you said that you still herx when you try to increase the dosage but that's one of the good things about herbs. You really have more control over the dosage than either oral or iv antibiotics. You can stay at one level for a while and then just increase it a drop or two at a time. If you have a bad herx, then go back to the previous dosage.

I think I read this in Buhner's book but if this is the wrong attribution. You don't have to herx to be getting better. Some people think herxing is a sign that the treatment is working but you herx because your body is overwhelmed and can't clear everything fast enough. So going up to the dose that causes you to herx then backing off is in the long run sometimes the better option.

It seems to me that instead of speeding up you need to dial things back a bit. We all want this over and done with but it really is a marathon and not a sprint. You need to do as much as you can but not more than you can handle.

hope this helps in even a small way. Kim

Silly SHeep - OMG The Inka Trail was absolutely amazing. Words nor pictures do it justice. I was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and cried during a lot of it, but I survived and it was so worth it!
I was definitely detxing like crazy during antibiotics and still am now, just not as diligently. I"m back (well attempting to be) at work full time so by the time i'm home I shower and get in bed. There are no spoons left for anything else. The alma seltzer gold and bur bur and easy for me to keep up with, but everything else I do as often as possible but not on a daily biases.
Well, I wouldn't do the most aggressive treatment if after starting it it became detrimental to my health, but I need to do more than I am now. the daily struggle is getting to be too much. just causing more stress and anxiety that I already have and don't need because it makes everything flare up!
My LLMD works with a group of all types of practitioners. So, I see her, an herbalist, chiropractor, yoga therapy (if feeling up to it) and psychologist as needed.
The only time I herd now on the herbs is if we increase the dose, which we aren't doing anymore because the herx are awful. Ive been sick since 2011, got my lyme diagnosis 12/31/14 and my LLMD told me by 6 months I should be feeling better and total treatment 1-1.5 years. Well, it's been on year, and Im not nay better. Just very discouraging.
Oh yes, co infections and adrenals etc are all being monitored and supplemented as needed. I know 40 pills twice a day plus tinctures and drops is the norm for us, but I can't have it as my daily norm for much longer or I'll stop all together. 3 of my cousins had Lyme and IV abc worked best for them. It gave their bodies the kick they needed to get the ball rolling! I know everybody is different, but I haven't tried IV abc so must be worth the shot.

gkamom- Like i wrote to silly sheep, from the beginning we have been testing a treating co infections as well. I'm not just saying I wasn't to do the most aggressive out there, what i mean by aggressive is the most aggressive one that is best for me and what my body can handle, ya know?
I definitely will be streamlining my meds and supplements over the next couple weeks to make sure I'm only taking what is actually helpful.
It is nice that I can self adjust the herbs when I can't do that with abc, but the problem is I can't get past the dosage I am at now. We have tried 3-4 different times and each increase led to a 7-10 day herx. I'm stuck at a lower dosage than what my goal dosage is. Plus, while I was on abx, even thought I felt awful, I knew it was working and slowly showed improvement. Now there is nothing except frustration and anger. How is it possible I feel worse than before I even started treatment. I am usually a very patient person and have been a RN for 7 years, so I understand all the sides and how things don't just get better overnight, but I need to feel/see that things are actually moving int he right direction, ya know? Nope that makes sense... it's late and my brain fog is my #1 worst symptom these days :( I would love to heal without herxing and get that that can happen, but I need to see progression somewhere or somehow, I need to start feeling better. I don't have it in me to focus 100% of me and my health and work full-time. Being an RN is my passion,but it is both physically and emotionally exhausting, especially in oncology. I low health comes first, but I can't afford treatment if I'm not working. Double edged sword. I just need to win the lottery! haha
I'm off wednesday this week so going to look at some links somebody posted for me on a different thread, and will definitely look into Buhners books for sure! Thank you for the suggestions :)


Thank you all so much for the responses, support and advice with links attached. It means so much and is so helpful for me. I will try and do some research of my own and check out the info you guys gave me on my day off this week and will keep everybody posted. I do think it's at least time for a second opinion though,now to just find another LLMD in the chicago area, but we will leave that for another day.
you all are amazing! Thank you so much for being here for me!
Kelsey