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Motherwort FYI and now my N=1 experiment

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Posted 12/19/2015 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
I first became aware of Motherwort when I was dealing with hyperthyroidism back in 2007 (well before my tick bite).

Motherwort helps ease some of the symptoms of hyperthyroidism.

Buhner recommends Motherwort to help with the anxiety caused by our infections.

I began taking it when dealing with anxiety ala a Babesia herx and it really helped.

Some people think it can impact thyroid function directly. (as in, cause or exacerbate hypothyroidism) And, there is a 2014 study that implies this (per Buhner in his new Lyme book)

As mentioned in the "Actions on the thyroid" about Motherwort on page 383 of aforementioned book :

"This is completely untrue and regrettably comes from a failure to understand the actions of the plant or why a few sources in the literature indicate it suppresses thyroid function."

Buhner goes on to explain that motherwort is used in hyperthyroidism because of the actions of the plant on the heart.

"It is merely a supportive adjunct for alleviating elevated thyroid function. The herb does not, by itself, lower thyroid function "
Posted 12/19/2015 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
I use it because of my heart involvement with lyme. I have no idea if it motherwort or hawthorn that keeps my heart in check, but I am not quitting either one to find out.
Posted 12/19/2015 10:56 PM (GMT 0)
Actually, I was on motherwort for 4 years, then I developed hypothyroidism and my doc told me the same thing - motherwort has the potential to interfere with thyroid function. I agreed to come off of it for a trial period, but after about 2 days of being off of it, my thyroid swelling when down noticeably (to me at least).

So I have to say that although it may not interfere for most people, everyone should check to see if it bothers their thyroid with a trial of being off of it, if you have already started it, because it really does create issues for some of us.
Posted 3/19/2016 2:50 PM (GMT 0)
I started Motherwort in October and, by the time of my thyroid labs in November, my FT3 *and* my FT4 level had decreased. This is very unusual for me - it's more common for one of my levels to go "off" and either a T4 or T3 dose adjustment takes care of things.

Now, my thyroid has often fluctuated and I've often needed some kind of dose adjustment (T4 or T3) every 10-12 wks. I had one stretch when I went almost 9 months on the same dose. Then Lyme hit and all hell broke loose lol

Anyway, my thyroid levels have continued to decrease since starting Motherwort in spite of dose INcreases. I'm on my 4th dose increase in as many months and this is officially old.

Low thyroid reduces immune function and stalls healing. I've been sick 3 times this winter and I never get sick. I'm currently trying to stop "something" from developing - my nose/throat have been tickly like they feel when I'm coming down with a cold. This is officially old as well. lol

I posted a question to thyroid guru Elaine Moore on her website and am waiting for her answer to post. Elaine is well-known in the Graves' community. She does list Motherwort to treat symptoms of hyperthyroidism....not that it can lower thyroid levels as can other herbs she recommends. I'm finding stuff online that Motherwort interferes with T4/T3 conversion but not on sites I usually trust for thyroid info.

I need to be doing the same thing thyroid-wise for at least 3 wks. if I want accurate thyroid labs.

My N=1 experiment started today - no more Motherwort for me until I get my thyroid labs done on 4/12.

I absolutely love the herb and hope I don't miss it. Such is life and I'll report back ;)

If anyone else has Motherwort/thyroid experiences to share, I'm all ears (well, eyes :)
Posted 3/19/2016 5:22 PM (GMT 0)
cd - Pleae keep us posted with updates on how you're feeling as you proceed with this experiment.

I hope this is the answer to the lowering of your thyroid function,so you can stabilize it again.
Posted 3/19/2016 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Girlie!! I hope so too....being a guinea pig is also officially old lol
Posted 3/19/2016 6:45 PM (GMT 0)
CD- they really need a home thyroid test, like blood sugar prick testing. Life would be simpler.

Getting my thyroid labs done was like pulling teeth, but the stupid nurse (the iron phone gate) is now missing from my thyroid clinic (I hope forever). What a stupid controlling biatch she was. And made patients suffer.
Posted 3/19/2016 6:51 PM (GMT 0)
CD- I still have some anxiety. Would love to know what its like not to have any anxiety or the opposite , fatigue. Guess Motherwart might not be an option.

Need to get my thyroid checked again to though.

Do you know any other unusual supplements worth trying for light anxiety? (I consider Motherwart towards the unusual side.)

The popular St Johns seemed to help in large quantities, but it also lowered my thyroid (known to do this too).
Posted 3/19/2016 7:01 PM (GMT 0)
I am taking sooo much stuff that I'm not 100% Motherwort is to blame. I stopped LDN the month after I started Motherwort and that certainly doesn't help make the picture any clearer.

I'm not restarting LDN so I figured I'd go back to the latest addition lol

Have you ever taken SAM-e? It's great for stabilizing the mood. Rhodiola Rosea can be good...it's stimulating for some people but I like it - I've been taking it for years.

The decision to take Motherwort was to help me get over anxiety herxes and I was willing to deal with thyroid implications....with the thought that they would be limited to 1 or 2 dose adjustments.

Then my life became insane and Motherwort seemed like a good idea. Now I'm not so sure.

I knew about St. Johns wort but, again, there is conflicting information about Motherwort and I've been inclined to trust Buhner. However, he might have been referring to healthy thyroid function - I haven't had that in years lol
Posted 3/19/2016 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman:

They DO have reputable home testing for thyroid - it is the only place I trust and where I always get mine done.....ZRT LABS. Plenty of information out there on the internet about this company, which has been around a long time and is highly regarded.

I use them not only for thyroid panels but for cortisol testing, hormone testing, etc. Have done so for about 12 years because I had a total hysterectomy when only in my 30s and pretty much dropped out of conventional medicine after that nightmare!
Posted 3/19/2016 7:15 PM (GMT 0)
I used sam-E for a while, for its part in liver and methalation cycle. For mood I think its more for for depression, I'm more or less anxiety. It made me depressed LOL.

Never tried Rhodiola Rosea separately, it was in a expensive stress formula I used years ago.

Well, If you come to a conclusion on MWart and thyroid, feel free to post.
Posted 3/19/2016 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
Meant to add that they also provide great support and summaries based on your results
Posted 3/19/2016 7:28 PM (GMT 0)
Excuse my obviously fatigued brain - I am thinking you are referring to an instant result (60 second) kind of test astro.....sorry. You mentioned home testing and ZRT does send you a home testing kit.

I agree an instant thyroid test would be so awesome!!
Posted 3/19/2016 8:51 PM (GMT 0)
ursa - Yes- instant result (60 second) is what we need for thyroid testing.

My Dr does it the next day (lab in clinic). But appointments are a hassle. Insc will only do so many.

2 weeks for the average thyroid lab would drive me nuts - I used to do that when I was thyroid cluless.
Posted 3/19/2016 9:35 PM (GMT 0)
For those of us who don't use doctors (like me!).....ZRT labs is a blessing, even if there is a wait for results.

Also, I often use privatemdlabs which has a pretty fast turnaround time for any blood draws I've done to date. Order online, walk in next day for blood draw, etc....

But love the idea of the 60 second test!
Posted 3/19/2016 9:50 PM (GMT 0)
A 60 second test would be awesome!

Now that I've moved, my doctor is 1.25 hrs. away. I continue to search for a thyroid-savvy doctor closer to me but that doctor also needs to draw blood in his/her office. That's what my doctor does and the nearest LabCorp is 20 minutes away from me. Add up all the driving time and appointment-related time....and I'm still driving 1.25 hrs. each way lol

I usually get the results the day after the blood draw and needed dose adjustments start right then. Doing this every 4 wks. is what has minimized the development of thyroid symptoms for me.

I had lab coverage with my insurance and they've never said "boo" about the frequency of my appointments. My erratic thyroid levels totally justify the level of my care and I'd fight that to the end ;) They can just read my symptoms journals lol

Today was day one without the Motherwort - I felt more energetic. That doesn't mean anything because I'm taking a new, larger dose of thyroid and more energy would be expected. No anxiety but Saturdays don't usually bring anxiety lol

I'll definitely update with thyroid lab results when I get them.

And, sorry I couldn't offer up anything truly useful to you for anxiety, Astroman. I know you take magnesium but I'm guessing that doesn't cut it....
Posted 3/23/2016 8:01 PM (GMT 0)
Interim update...

For all the changes I've made throughout treatment, I've never stopped anything and felt worse....except now that I've stopped Motherwort.

I've been dealing with stinging sensations in various body areas including a 10-second long "event" of feeling like shards of glass were being shoved into the ball of my right foot. I had a couple of instances when my fingertips went numb....or my hands. My left leg went numb last night for several minutes. I haven't had these symptoms in ages. Blech.

And, Elaine Moore posted her answer to my question about motherwort possibly affecting my thyroid meds doses:

"Motherwort has anti-thyroid properties so it can easily lower your thyroid hormone levels. It's probably the reason for your needed thyroid replacement hormone dose increases."

There you have it and I'm a little disappointed with Buhner.....maybe his comments apply only to those with healthy thyroid function.

I surely hope me stopping Motherwort will get my thyroid back on track and I can get back on track with healing.

Another lesson learned the hard way....
Posted 3/23/2016 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
Cd, I think you were using Motherwort as a nervine, right?

Substitutes would be tonics - skullcap, oat tops, or mildly calming - catnip, chamomile, or sedative - valerian and hops.

I use motherwort for heart calming.
Posted 3/23/2016 8:30 PM (GMT 0)
PeteZa,

I guess you could say I was using Motherwort as a nervine but I must admit I'd begun to love it because of its mitochondria repair abilities and other actions.

I've been taking Chinese Skullcap since August of last year and will resume Avena Sativa (milky oats - is that the same as oat tops?).

I am desperate to heal my nerves - can ya tell? ;)

Thanks for the other herb tips - I'll definitely keep them in mind should I feel the need.
Posted 3/23/2016 8:52 PM (GMT 0)
Definitely Avena Sativa.

I think because I know what you are taking you have all the bases covered for the mitochondria repair. You take supplements even more than me and definitely more tinctures than I do.

To just skip the motherwort will be okay. But the avena sativa is a good substitute as a nervine.
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