Chronic Epstein-Barr

Hi marigold -

Ugh... I feel for you. Most lymees are dealing w/ a high EBV load, likely brought on by a challenged immune system (whether challenged by the tick infections or by the treatment).

But I'm a "lifer". My entire life, I have battled EBV and the more I think about it and read about viruses, the more I think it is likely that my EBV load is what helped lyme & co gain a foothold in dominating my immune system, leading me down the path of chronic illness... so I agree w/ your MD that something suppressed your immune system--maybe it was the lyme & co, maybe it was EBV.

Most people (even healthy" people) carry the EBV virus but only a few of us exhibit sx or become ill from it.

We had a good discussion about viruses - here is a recent thread that might be helpful:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3618192

The gist of the discussion is that it's difficult to know from the serology tests (by comparing IgG to IgM) if the virus was recently contracted or not. However, with EBV it's pretty safe to assume you've had the virus for a long time as MOST people contracted it as a child. So it's likely that if a recent test shows a high volume of titers (or antibodies) that the virus has reared its ugly head and is challenging your immune system (and therefore your treatment for lyme & co)... regardless of how long you've had it.

I had mono (caused by the EBV or HHV-6 virus) more times than I can count in my teens, 20s and 30s. Only since educating myself about lyme & co did I learn what is going on and while I'm in treatment for lyme & co, I HAVE to keep the EBV under control or it completely disrupts my treatment and I crash hard.

So I'm on antivirals... I've graduated from an Rx to an herbal protocol from Beyond Balance called IMN-V-II. The first time I tried it I overdosed and was knocked out for about a month. I had to revert to Rx antivirals for about a year to get the virus load at a manageable level but this past month I successfully transitioned back to the IMN-V-II but still taking one drop per day... will slowly titrate up as high as I can manage up to optimal dose.

Whichever protocol your MD suggests for you, it's important that you start slowly with low doses--most WILL trigger a herx or challenge your immune system to the point that symptoms will increase. It's also very important to have a good detox protocol in place before you start on something new like an antiviral. And as you incorporate a new component of your treatment (like an antiviral) you might need to also increase ways to detox, which you should also do slowly and carefully. It's pretty easy to overwhelm your system if you try to do too much.

There are great detox protocols people here have implemented - you can do a search for "detox" or ask people to share ideas.

Hope this helps! Please let us know how things go for you.

-p

I specifically asked my LLMD about this.

I have EBV antibodies around 4.5 IGG and over 5 IGM. Both pretty high. So you would think I had mono a lot during my life? Nope.

My whole blood PCR for EBV DNA is negative. That is the one my LLMD uses. I would guess each LLMD is different?

I actually don't ever remember having mono. My IGG is >600. They didn't even give a number so I have no idea how high it is. I do get fatigue in the afternoon but it is not crushing fatigue. Just tired with heavy eyelids. Some days are better than others. If I remember right, NAC is also helpful with viruses?

k07 -
I was aware of symptoms maybe half of the time I came down with mono--I was literally walking around with mono but felt normal and was acting normally. When I was younger, the MDs caught it only because I had to get a physical for some school activity and when I was older, it was caught on regular checkups.

And then I've had episodes where I didn't think I could ever get out of bed. EBV is a tricky thing and I would guess that we all manifest it differently.

-p

People with chronic condition get that way because their immune and others body systems are weak.
One thing that we need to do along with everything else is to try to build up our body systems.

Detox and kill bugs-but also look at diet-sleep-metals-implants-dental-parasites,food allergy.
This takes time but the body heals

I actually don't take anything to support my liver.. I think this has been a missing element of my protocol.. Is there a liver support you'd recommend?

And I don't quite understand, what do you mean by "existing issues"? You mean besides the lyme?

Thank you so much!

Agree w/ cd - Milk thistle seed really helped me when antivirals overloaded my liver and my enzymes shot up. But then I started abx and even though I was on the MTS the enzymes started climbing again so I added in Burdock Root. It was almost instant reduction. I am now on two IV abx and also on antiviral and anti fungal meds, yet with the MTS and BR my enzymes have remained low.

I haven't tried Pekana homeopathic but they have been recommended by a few on this forum. There are also things you can do to help your lymph function and foods you can eat. Might be a good thing to search on the forum or maybe you'd be interested in starting a new thread discussion to see what others are doing for good flushing and support.

I've had some lymph problems lately and this is what I've also added to my detox:

increased water intake
Red Root
aloe very juice (drink 1/2 c per day)

By "existing issues" I meant a pre-existing liver condition--you should talk w/ your MD before taking any liver support. And the MTS wouldn't be helpful with an allergy like cd references (ragweed). Sorry that was unclear.

Hope this helps!

-p

Oh sweetpea... I think the same tick bit us. Those are my viruses except I think I also have HHV-8. I feel disgusting. I definitely have lyme, bart and babs but LLMD and I stopped testing for others. I couldn't handle anymore treatment than I was at the time and couldn't afford more testing anyway.

Regarding the rest of your post - very intriguing and I think you're on to something. Thanks to corruption within the IDSA and CDC, there is a lot more we don't know about this condition than what we do know.

-p

Has anyone read Buhner's "Herbal Anti-Virals" book to know whether or not he has protocols for the infections being discussed here?

So sorry for those dealing with these challenging viral loads!!

I think Buhner's would be helpful to know. I am making incremental steps in rebuilding my protocol--still have a ways to go. Once I reach a plateau I'll feel more able to take on something entirely new like Buhner's. I am looking to transition off abx sometime this year so I want to consider all my options so I'll probably want to learn his approach to viral loads as well.

-p

Glad you found something effective muffin!

It took me a couple tries before I found the antiviral that worked for my particular "blend" of viruses... ugh...

But I have a bottle of Acyclovir in my fridge. For awhile there, I was able to wean myself off daily doses and take it only when I had sx of viral flares--kind of like if you felt a cold sore on your lip developing, you're supposed to take large doses (1600mg at a time) a couple of times throughout the day and it supposedly knocks it down fast and efficiently.

So, I was doing the same--whenever I felt my "typical signs" that a viral load was creeping up (namely: fever, stiffness in neck, skin can sometimes feel on fire, extreme lethargy, swollen nodes, breakout, achiness and crankiness) I'd throw back a couple of Acyclovir capsules 2-3 times throughout the day for a couple days in a row and felt immediate relief. This was working for awhile to get me off daily doses. But yes, it's hard on the liver so you need to also have a good support & detox protocol in place and if you're on them every day you must get your liver enzymes checked monthly.

With whatever the vanco (for bart) is stirring up, I'm back to daily doses but I'm still trying to transition to the Beyond Balance IMN-V-II... Taking small doses of each right now, and when my current flare subsides, I'll stop taking the Rx and increase IMN-V-II. The last time I tried this I overdosed on the IMN-V-II and crashed HARD for about a month. That stuff is powerful.

-p