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Abart and ababs herbal challenge (ordered by LLMD).

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Posted 6/1/2016 1:19 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,
I saw my LLMD for the first time. I really liked him. I felt listened to, and now feel hopeful and grateful!
But, a little scared...
I have two herbal challenges to take...ABART and ABABS. 25 drops of each herb, and each challenged spaced 2-3 days apart.
I've read here were people start slow with herbal drops...what do you all think of 25 drops? Can anyone speak of experience with these herbs?
I was told to do the challenges on days were I have help with my kids, and can really rest.
Just hoping to hear of experiences, what to expect (I know that's a toughie), ect.
Thanks for any information.
Posted 6/1/2016 1:36 AM (GMT 0)
25 drops is a lot to start with...if you do it, be prepared for a herx.

Yes, you should start slow with the herbs...and gauge response.

I understand why your LLMD wants to do a higher dose...so that he can whether there's a reaction (herx) What you can expect - is a ramping up of current symptoms...and/or the onset of new symptoms (if you do herx)

But, it may be a horrible experience for you.

Do you have a good routing for detoxing? Multiple methods...daily?
Posted 6/1/2016 1:52 AM (GMT 0)
I'm pretty good with detoxing...I could always do better. I'll be sure to get Alka seltzer gold and activated charcoal...

Yes, my LLMD wants me off antibiotics after 7 months of not doing much (different dr). I think he's trying to figure out a treatment plan. Aside from my current infection from a year ago, he believes based on symptoms and health issues from 6 years ago that I've had Lyme and bartonella all along, and then with my newest bite it all has been too much for my body 😔

He's testing me for many other diseases as well...suspects others as well.

I'm very scared to take 25 drops of anything.
Posted 6/1/2016 2:52 AM (GMT 0)
Why don't you call him and ask him why is he asking you to take this much so rapidly.

Let him explain the "why."

Ask him if he is familiar with the Herxheimer Reaction and how debilitating you have read it can be. Tell him you are nervous about going through this.

And please come back and tell us what he says.
Posted 6/1/2016 3:42 AM (GMT 0)
Hi MadaboutLyme!-

I would highly recommend you to call your LLMD!

Ask if they ment to slowly work your way up to 25 drops!!

25 drops right away sounds like way too much to soon.

I am currently on A-BAB. My LLMD told me to start with 1 drop a day, then wait 5 to 7 days and take 1 drop in the morning and one drop in the evening. Every5-7 days try to increase by only 1 drop until I get up to 25.

I never made it to 25. I had very bad herxing on only 6drops total a day.

Some people don't have an issue with A-BAB or A-BART. They don't herx at all, but from what I've read they still start out very slowly and increase every couple of days. Just to be on the safe side.

Please call your LLMD and make sure about the dosage!

Best Wishes!
Posted 6/1/2016 4:50 AM (GMT 0)
I agree completely with Little Bear on this. I've taken A-BAB and I can usually just gut through anything but I had to email my LLND due to the unbearable headaches I was getting from the Babesia herx. I took the A BAB after 15 months ( approx, my memory still sticks) on abx's and the abx's were very effective at lowering my toxin load.

The Byron White products are very potent. You can google A-BAB and A-BART and see that it's consistant that people have a hard time moving up the amount of drops they take. Most people start with a drop or two tops and if they don't herx they can increase after 4-5 days. You know how long it takes for your body to react.

If you start at 25 drops you will land in the emergency room. Please don't do that to yourself.

I do think the products are a great way to see if you have Babesia and Bartonella. Just take it nice and slow.
Posted 6/1/2016 6:27 AM (GMT 0)
MadaboutLyme - based on the comments of jrpsf and Little Bear - who have taken A-BAB - I would take heed in what they are saying.

You don't want to end up in the ER.
Posted 6/1/2016 1:06 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you all so much. I appreciate it.
I am going to come back later, and write more when I have free time.
Thanks again.
Posted 6/1/2016 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
i took A-BAB and A-BART each 25 drops 2x/day concurrently for several months. to be honest it didn't do anything for me that i noticed then again i was also on antibiotics so tough to say. i have babesia duncani (via igenex FISH test) and bartonella via classic symptoms.

i started the full doses right away per my LLMD. if i were you i'd start at a lower dose and gauge reaction. whether that's 1,2 or 5 is up to you but full dose right away does have its risks.
Posted 6/1/2016 3:47 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you, Rikky.
My LLMD is well known, and I do know of two people who have gotten well...he's been treating Lyme for 30 years, so I know he "knows" his stuff...still I'm struggling to understand why such high doses. It's comforting to know that your LLMD ordered the same challenge. Were you scared to do it?
Posted 6/1/2016 3:53 PM (GMT 0)
For some reason, I'm finding that some LL Dr.'s don't realize the power of some of these herbal treatments.
...or the severity of the herxes that can result.

My LLND - when he told me to take Cryptolepis early on in my treatment...he told me 1 dropperful 3X daily...no starting slow...
I started one drop at a time.


And that's Naturopathic Dr. who should know the effects of herbs...right?
Posted 6/1/2016 3:59 PM (GMT 0)
>>For some reason, I'm finding that some LL Dr.'s don't realize the power of some of these herbal treatments. ...or the severity of the herxes that can result.

agreed though it seems strange that my LLMD as well as madaboutlyme's has been doing this for decades and still have this approach. personally i don't think my doctor takes much stock in herbals i mean he knows about them and will be ok if you try one here or there he's heard is beneficial but that's it. maybe its because he's a integrative medicine guy and not an ND.

madaboutlyme, i didn't know any better at the time so i just went with what he said LOL. there's no hurt in starting slow and ramping up after that. find some hybrid approach like take maybe a week to 10 days to get to full dosage. if the herbs work you'll feel like crap which is good.
Posted 6/1/2016 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
FULL doses? I wouldn't do it.

I've been on Byron White A-babs, A-bart and AL-complex a couple of times. I had no action to AL-complex. The other two created extreme herxes at 5 drops, the A-babs eventually became manageable.

I "overdosed" (took 10 drops) of an antiviral tincture and was flat on my back for a month trying to recover.

I agree w/ Girlie & others - it's just too high. You don't need full doses to "challenge". I'd start with 5 drops and very carefully note reactions, then jump to 10, again noting reactions. If they are minimal, keep jumping up 5 drops. The purpose of challenging is to see if you will have a reaction to the antimicrobial, not to see how horrible you can feel as fast as possible--and most people would react to that high a dose. Why push it when you can get the same info with a smaller dose?

MANY (too may) LLMDs/NDs don't understand the power of these herbs but I think many more underestimate the impact of herxing. They are plowing their patients full steam ahead into treatment without helping them prepare for it or manage it appropriately. This doesn't mean they aren't good lyme specialists... this means there is still so much more to learn about how to treat lyme & co.

-p
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