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Posted 9/30/2016 11:36 PM (GMT 0)
Having symptoms for two years. Igenix posi for BB, babs, and anaplasma phagocytophilum antibodies.

Special diet seemed to lessen the severity and frequency of pain. Starting ABX did not seem to change things for me either way. No herxing. I've been taking them for two months. Currently:

-100 mgs of minocycline twice a day,

-500 of biaxin twice a day

-500 of tinidazole once a day

-mepron twice a day

-Microbinate twice a day (monolaurin, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano)

-sida acuta.

Over the past few weeks I feel like my symptoms have been getting worse. I recently upped my ABX and things only seemed to get worse. My left-side pain, tingling, and twitching have increased, and my testicle/groin pain has spread and I have twitching in the area.

I emailed my doctor and she said I should detox more. But to me I just feel like my ABX aren't working and just making the disease angry! Is this normal?
Posted 9/30/2016 11:45 PM (GMT 0)
You are killing bugs and there is not a clear pathway for them to get out of your body and that is causing pain and suffering.

Your doctor is spot on in recommending detoxing.

Why---- www.tiredoflyme.com/the-herxheimer-reaction.html

How to fix --- www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html
Posted 9/30/2016 11:51 PM (GMT 0)
it needs some time, just be patient and detox a lot
Posted 10/1/2016 12:07 AM (GMT 0)
It will take much longer than 2 months for you to start feeling improvementso. For what I have read 6 months is the initial mark.
Posted 10/1/2016 1:04 AM (GMT 0)
Interesting: I always thought that a herx meant feeling like you had the flu, with a fever or chills, headache, etc. Didn't know it could mean an increase or resurgence of original symptoms, which is what I have.

When I switched from doxy to mino I felt kinda normal, but when I increased the tinidazole I started to feel worse. Maybe that's what threw me off. But the fact that out of nowhere my testicles are buzzing and twitching with a constant pain has really been hard to deal with. But knowing that it can signify a die-off of bugs is really encouraging. Thanks for the info.
Posted 10/1/2016 1:55 AM (GMT 0)

dogsblood said...
Interesting: I always thought that a herx meant feeling like you had the flu, with a fever or chills, headache, etc. Didn't know it could mean an increase or resurgence of original symptoms, which is what I have.

When I switched from doxy to mino I felt kinda normal, but when I increased the tinidazole I started to feel worse. Maybe that's what threw me off. But the fact that out of nowhere my testicles are buzzing and twitching with a constant pain has really been hard to deal with. But knowing that it can signify a die-off of bugs is really encouraging. Thanks for the info.

A herx can be a ramping up of current symptoms and/or new symptoms.

The abx are working.

Detoxing needs to be done regularly - working up to multiple methods daily.
Posted 10/1/2016 5:14 AM (GMT 0)
Tini is antiprotazoal but also kills all 3 forms of ketes ...it can cause nerve damage ..and is carcinogenic. ..under the microscope roceph ,zith and and venom had the hiding inside cells ...im 11 months into treatment and still wasting gunna ad some riffy ...but midred arboux only had a kill on ketes with 4 abx ,liver could not hang ....are you on silimarin or damdlion or ala ...consider bvt ...also my nut pain went away when i killed giardia with alinia ...just sayin
Posted 10/1/2016 3:53 PM (GMT 0)
2 months isn't very long but taking that many antibiotics is very dangerous. They ruined my body and I'll need surgery eventually to fix problems they caused in my Gi tract (I'm only 26) I'm weaning off of them now after 1 year because they haven't helped much besides surprising my immune system and hurting my body. Maybe give it a few more months and see if you're improving. If not BVT is becoming very popular and there are many other natural and effective treatments.
Posted 10/1/2016 4:00 PM (GMT 0)

Sean.scott256 said...
2 months isn't very long but taking that many antibiotics is very dangerous. They ruined my body and I'll need surgery eventually to fix problems they caused in my Gi tract (I'm only 26) I'm weaning off of them now after 1 year because they haven't helped much besides surprising my immune system and hurting my body. Maybe give it a few more months and see if you're improving. If not BVT is becoming very popular and there are many other natural and effective treatments.

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear this.


dogsblood - have you thought about pulsing the Tinidazole - instead of taking daily. That is quite common in the lyme world. maybe two or three days a week.
Posted 10/1/2016 8:44 PM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
Tini is antiprotazoal but also kills all 3 forms of ketes ...it can cause nerve damage ..and is carcinogenic. ..under the microscope roceph ,zith and and venom had the hiding inside cells ...im 11 months into treatment and still wasting gunna ad some riffy ...but midred arboux only had a kill on ketes with 4 abx ,liver could not hang ....are you on silimarin or damdlion or ala ...consider bvt ...also my nut pain went away when i killed giardia with alinia ...just sayin

I'm confused by some of this post. Can you elaborate, Blue, or can someone else fill me in?
Posted 10/1/2016 8:48 PM (GMT 0)

Sean.scott256 said...
2 months isn't very long but taking that many antibiotics is very dangerous. They ruined my body and I'll need surgery eventually to fix problems they caused in my Gi tract (I'm only 26) I'm weaning off of them now after 1 year because they haven't helped much besides surprising my immune system and hurting my body. Maybe give it a few more months and see if you're improving. If not BVT is becoming very popular and there are many other natural and effective treatments.

I feel like I am on less ABX than many--especially those who do IV. At this point I feel no effects from them--a little dizziness for a week, but other than that I feel fine. In fact my gut feels healthy for the first time in years (or at least I'm finally "regular." My plan is to switch to herbs after 6 months, because I know that I am playing with fire. But I am also determined to get better, so it's a difficult choice to make.
Posted 10/1/2016 8:50 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

Sean.scott256 said...
2 months isn't very long but taking that many antibiotics is very dangerous. They ruined my body and I'll need surgery eventually to fix problems they caused in my Gi tract (I'm only 26) I'm weaning off of them now after 1 year because they haven't helped much besides surprising my immune system and hurting my body. Maybe give it a few more months and see if you're improving. If not BVT is becoming very popular and there are many other natural and effective treatments.

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear this.


dogsblood - have you thought about pulsing the Tinidazole - instead of taking daily. That is quite common in the lyme world. maybe two or three days a week.

My doctor hasn't mentioned pulsing--I just do what she tells me.
Posted 10/1/2016 9:48 PM (GMT 0)
Your health is in your hands dogb

i am on iv rocephin, iv zithromax and bvt however my microscope research shows that spirochetes are hiding inside the rbc ..this is confirmed by darkfield lab too

Another microscopist kyme patient was having kills when she was on 4 abx but her liver could not process toxins after 2 days

the testicle pain went away when i addressed parasites ..i had giardia and ascaris ...i used wormwood ,herbs ,alinia ,and neem

Are you on a liver support ?

Baby Stings in my mouth ,propolis and oil of oregano have helped my gums some .
Posted 10/1/2016 10:13 PM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
Your health is in your hands dogb

i am on iv rocephin, iv zithromax and bvt however my microscope research shows that spirochetes are hiding inside the rbc ..this is confirmed by darkfield lab too

Another microscopist kyme patient was having kills when she was on 4 abx but her liver could not process toxins after 2 days

the testicle pain went away when i addressed parasites ..i had giardia and ascaris ...i used wormwood ,herbs ,alinia ,and neem

Are you on a liver support ?

Baby Stings in my mouth ,propolis and oil of oregano have helped my gums some .

Ah, thanks very much. I am on milk thistle and I drink tulsi tea. Looking to add other stuff soon. Testing liver enzymes every month.

Post Edited (dogsblood) : 10/1/2016 4:16:02 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/2/2016 7:20 AM (GMT 0)
@dogsblood:
Please check the potenial side effects / interactions of milk thistle. Based on my understanding, milk thistle can i.e. potentially lower Mepron levels in the body!
Posted 10/2/2016 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
How's your detoxing going?

"Over the past few weeks I feel like my symptoms have been getting worse. I recently upped my ABX and things only seemed to get worse."

- This is exactly how a herx would be.
Posted 10/2/2016 3:07 PM (GMT 0)

Never_give_up said...
@dogsblood:
Please check the potenial side effects / interactions of milk thistle. Based on my understanding, milk thistle can i.e. potentially lower Mepron levels in the body!

I heard the same thing about alpha lipoic acid, but I feel like my doctor would have mentioned this to me. I'm going to ask her, though. For a while I dropped the APA, just in case, but now I just try to space it out in order to support my nerves and stuff.

If you have any studies about the MT/Mepron interaction please post them.
Posted 10/2/2016 3:14 PM (GMT 0)
If your doctor agrees, maybe back off the tinidazole for a bit since it seems that's when the problem started. Ask her if she's willing to let you pulse it. It's hard to tell what's a herx vs. side effect of the meds. The only way you can tell is if you go off for a bit.
Posted 10/2/2016 3:27 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
How's your detoxing going?

"Over the past few weeks I feel like my symptoms have been getting worse. I recently upped my ABX and things only seemed to get worse."

- This is exactly how a herx would be.

I'm not sure how my detox is going. I know my bilirubin level were super high before getting my diagnosis. They are still quite high. I have been taking milk thistle and just recently started taking charcoal and tulsi tea. I am getting a liver/blood test on Monday, so I will have a better idea then. My kidney area does seem to be irritated, though.

My symptoms were flaring up, but have since gone back to normal. I feel relatively fine minus some left sided pain and some tingly/heavy limbs and some muscle twitching. I know that Dr. Jemsek says absence of herxing usually means absence of lyme, while other sources say it is not necessary. I don't know whether or not I'm herxing or if I should even be hoping for this to happen.
Posted 10/2/2016 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
your symptoms got worse after starting treatment...you're herxing.

Hang in there ....

Herxing will happen, but effective detox can help lessen, alleviate those symptoms.
Posted 10/2/2016 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
I would encourage you to increase your detoxing - PeteZa posted a very good article that explains many of the detoxing routines we use to get through treatments.

Do you have concerns about your adrenals? If so, don't use the Tulsi tea, as it will lower cortisol levels.

Although herxing is common. not all people herx. It's all a matter of how well your body detoxes on it's own - many of us have issues that prevent us from being able to detox well though. An absence of herxing doesn't mean the protocol isn't working, but herxing isn't good for the body, as it's an overload of toxins, so we work to reduce the toxins, which will help us feel better.
Posted 10/2/2016 5:44 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
I would encourage you to increase your detoxing - PeteZa posted a very good article that explains many of the detoxing routines we use to get through treatments.

Do you have concerns about your adrenals? If so, don't use the Tulsi tea, as it will lower cortisol levels.

Although herxing is common. not all people herx. It's all a matter of how well your body detoxes on it's own - many of us have issues that prevent us from being able to detox well though. An absence of herxing doesn't mean the protocol isn't working, but herxing isn't good for the body, as it's an overload of toxins, so we work to reduce the toxins, which will help us feel better.

I don't know anything about adrenals--are there signs to look for?
Posted 10/2/2016 5:47 PM (GMT 0)
Personally, I like this website - I've used it for a couple of years now to help me determine how to treat and what's going on. You will see that there are many symptoms of adrenal dysfunction that cross over with Lyme symptoms, so with Lyme, these symptoms would be even more severe.

/www.drlam.com/articles/adrenalexhaustion.asp
Posted 10/2/2016 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
I never knew my abx worked or not. My theory is that for 3 weeks they did not work at all because the bacteria was semi dormant then got out in system at week 4...and hell broke loose.
At that point I was too disappointed of the failure of abx. I expect abx to perform better than a simple herb based on reading and general knowledge.
Now I expect nothing. I do not even know if I am wasting time.
What I know is this....

If someone would find a cure for lyme that would consist in chemo sessions....I might even take it...despite the fact I am so against poisoning my body. But now is like...whatever. If I am destined to die I will die. A roller coaster of emotions thru the day.
Posted 10/2/2016 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
We have to take the treatment (whatever is chosen) full time, because we don't know when the bacteria is in the bloodstream replicating - that's the only time the pharma abx will kill them. So you not feeling anything for the first three weeks is quite normal. On top of that, not everyone herxes if their body is capable of handling the detoxing of large amounts of toxins.

And these are far from "simple herbs" - it's taken many years of studying for these practitioners to come up with good, effective protocols. These are some of the most complex bacteria known to infect humans at this point in time. Not many bacteria can change their outer surface proteins, much less change them 'at will'.
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