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Posted 10/13/2016 5:29 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, All.

A question: Do herbals (specifically banderol and samento) cause the spirochetes to go into cyst form? I can't find any definitive information on this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Posted 10/13/2016 6:14 PM (GMT 0)
I can't speak about the Cowden herbs...I'm not familiar with them

I think if you use Buhner herbs - a cyst buster isn't needed.
BUT, if at one point you did use antibiotics...and cysts formed...maybe you will still need a cyst buster - even though you switched to herbals.

Sorry, I'm not much help.

But, this will bump so others can respond.
Posted 10/13/2016 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
Very good question! Banderol and samento are anti-bacterial, and would kill the spirochetes. I think the question for me then becomes, what do the spirochetes do when threatened. Well, we know they are adaptable, and we know they hide. I don't know the science behind it, hopefully someone who does will come along, but my guess is - well, it is is conceivable that some hunker down and hide out in cyst form when attacked by herbs.
Posted 10/13/2016 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
I found this interesting link on Buhner's site in relation to cysts. http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/lyme/cyst-form/
Posted 10/13/2016 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, all.

multifacetedme, I think what Buhner is saying that the spirochetes do adapt to the herbs, just like they do to antibiotics. I'm pulsing two abxs, and have started the Cowden protocol, which my LLMD is aware of and agrees with. Buhner even says he thinks a med and herbal combo is good.

Girlie, I understand that the spirochetes encyst themselves when under attack, but un-encyst themselves when the threat is removed. So that's why I wondered if taking the herbals keeps the little ******s protected.
Posted 10/13/2016 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
Also, pulsing antibiotics seems to help with them not going into cyst form.
But, once they do, I think it takes more than a few days for them to 'un-cyst' -
Posted 10/13/2016 7:26 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Also, pulsing antibiotics seems to help with them not going into cyst form.
But, once they do, I think it takes more than a few days for them to 'un-cyst' -

Yes, that is my impression, too. That's why we pulse every two weeks rather than every few days.
Posted 10/13/2016 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
I'm doing two abx M/W/F plus a third on Th/F - two weeks on, one week off.

This is to treat bartonella. I've read before that you shouldn't pulse for bart - that it will become resistant...but a very well-known, knowledgeable LLMD does treat bart that way (with week long drug 'holidays') and I've decided to trust that method.
Of course I'm constantly thinking about if it's the right thing to do.

I have to say, I don't feel any worse -symptom wise since doing it...and it's been many months now. So, I don't think overall I'm getting worse.

..and psychologically, I feel 'better' pulsing...having days with no abx in my system. On those days, i really load up with probiotics and other supports...its' much easier not worrying about what I can or can't take with the abx.
Posted 10/13/2016 7:43 PM (GMT 0)
Burner says that andrographis is the actual only antispirochetal. Anyone likes to expand on this. Based on what we know my take was that the herbs are too complex for the bacteria to adapt....if it is true that it adapts to herbs then a more aggressive regiment would be a better approach instead of drop by drop. Abx kills lyme too, those who do not become cyst..... which is actually very high...
Posted 10/16/2016 2:27 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie, what are your Bart symptoms?
Posted 10/16/2016 2:33 AM (GMT 0)
I think it all depends on how long you have had lyme.

Have you had it long enough that it had a chance to go into biofilm or cyst form? And who knows how long that is??? I certainly don't.

I was in doubt so I did the biofilm buster just because. I wanted to hit lyme from all the angles with as few herbs as possible.

And I still took a handful of pills a day and herbs up the kazoo 3 times a day and more pills and then some in the middle of the night. Egads!
Posted 10/16/2016 2:47 AM (GMT 0)

Smeadley said...
Girlie, what are your Bart symptoms?

Well, the ones that could be from Bart:

- foot pain (bottoms)
- rib pain (left side only)
- vibrations in my body (horrible nervous system symptom)
- nerve pain - almost daily - left side thoracic area, left arm, left hand
- nerve pain - random places
- had a swollen and sore clavicle lymph node (resolved)
- had anxiety

There is overlap with Lyme symptoms - so some could be Lyme.

I may have forgotten to list some.
Posted 10/16/2016 3:10 AM (GMT 0)
Yes Kirky, it does.

I haven't seen anything about pulsing herbs being beneficial.
Posted 10/16/2016 1:24 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
I think it all depends on how long you have had lyme.

Have you had it long enough that it had a chance to go into biofilm or cyst form? And who knows how long that is??? I certainly don't.

I was in doubt so I did the biofilm buster just because. I wanted to hit lyme from all the angles with as few herbs as possible.

And I still took a handful of pills a day and herbs up the kazoo 3 times a day and more pills and then some in the middle of the night. Egads!

PeetZa, well, at first we thought it was a discrete amount of time that I've been infected: I saw the tick and bull's eye in June 2015. But when my LLMD, Dr. P, did more testing, especially the CD-57, 56, etc. he found my numbers so low that it indicated an infection of several years. Then my cardiologist compared my last four EKGs, and said that due a QRS prolongation that is more than three years but less than six years, that he agrees that it is several years.

I think I might have Bartonella, too, as I have foot symptoms--mostly burning of the feet, ankles, and shins, and random, migrating patches of burning around my body, even though four tests for Bart, including from Galaxy, were negative.

What biofilm buster did you use?

Post Edited (Smeadley) : 10/16/2016 7:57:55 AM (GMT-6)

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